On-lead, Off-lead Etiquette?

[urchin]

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sounds interesting Beejay...i've already come accross some of these calming signals on a website when i was looking for something else. the yawning and lip licking thing was there, but not the walking in an arc - something i will add into Dij's training schedule - well, it can't hurt can it?

the other gesture that the bloke i read was talking about was to do with body posture ie weight on front feet is aggressive, weight on back feet is non - threatening.

so what i've been doing, when i stand in front of Dij to show him that it is my job to deal with potentially dangerous situations, is to split my legs and make sure my weight is firmly on my back foot. my hope is that this will reinforce the idea that i've assessed the situation and decided that we don't need to fight.

am off to google T Touch now to see what that's all about

i love this forum, you don't half find out some interesting and useful things :thumbsup:

keep sharing your experiences folks - it really is helpful for those of us who are only newly learning to deal with some difficult dog behaviours!

 

[sharron]

we came across a bloke in the park tonight with a lab pup on a extending lead, I think he was trying to teach it recall, either that or how to be dragged. Poor thing we came in and this poor dog was being called and if he did not came the bloke would drag him back. This continued for 25 mins. The pup was not even allowed to have a wee, without being dragged back.

At one point (zeb off lead) we past them Zeb went to say Hi,and the poor pup was drag back to the owner .Couldnt even greet another dog. it wasnt just Zeb that he did this 2 but there were about 3 of us that got the cold shoulder. He even said under his breath, not another B****y dog.

I can see in the next few years another dog that will attack peoples dogs. :angry:

 

[maggymills]

there are good and bad sides to my area- when we go to park, we either meet very bossy boxers/collies that are never on lead- they bound upto flo- whos on lead as she doesnt like big bouncy dogs- then she gets scared and aggressive to defend herself...

but if we go to park at 5pm, we meet a golden retriever, sheepdog, lhaso apso x, lab, gsd x, and lab x, and we all walk together 6 owners and 7 doggies running happily together! luckily we all have good manners and so do our dogs, mine still gets worried if they jump around near here, so the big lads dont go near when they are being boisterous, but she has the lhaso 'bo' as a mate and surprising for this area- she has a collie for another buddy- who lets her lick him to death!

its good to get to know other owners in your walking area- and meet up to walk so you can guarantee a pleasant walk.

some people have no regard for doggie manners and let their dogs do whatever, regardless of their motivations, i dont stand for people letting their dogs run upto to mine whos on lead- i shout across " my dog will not like this and will probably nip yours if she gets jumped on!"

but she is fine if the dog says hello and will play off lead happily chasing!

 

[BeeJay]

I've done a fair bit of 'stooge' work with my dogs for a friend who is a dog behaviourist and works with aggressive dogs.

The curving approach towards other dogs and rewarding the dog for not making eye contact is fascinating. It can be very hard for an owner to see exactly what signals their dog is sending out to the other dogs as they are often in the wrong position to see lip and nose licking also to see what the eyes are doing.

So it helps when doing this kind of desensitising if there is a trainer present. But you can get an aggressive dog to accept another dog and walk right past it in one session.

Unfortunately it isn't always easy to approach other dogs using a curving approach when they are on lead and in the 'real' world. Then you get narrow areas and other such potential flashpoints.

However I have used yawning on dogs that are strange to me and are worried about me. It has an amazing effect. I can remember a staffie looking very shocked, open it's eyes wide, I broke eye contact and did a bigger yawn and the dog yawned back at me, lay down and went to sleep. :lol: Doubt if it would work if a dog was coming into attack though.

 

[whippetsrus]

the other gesture that the bloke i read was talking about was to do with body posture ie weight on front feet is aggressive,

Looks a bit like a lion prowling. Doggie body language is an interesting subject. Not all owners realise the signals their dogs send out.

 

[Max&Smokey]

Well odd one out here, mine are off the lead all the time unless on paths / roads / bike where there is not much room to move. They are allowed to behave like a dog and as such dont mind sniffing other dogs bits for a few seconds then they move on. They have done this since they were puppies and we have had no problems with them being attacked or them being in any way aggressive to other dogs.

I dont see how you having a lead on your dog protects it, a whippets protection is its speed. This comes after we had a JR ripped open (Died) on a lead by a GSD and a mongrel attacked by 2 GSD's. In both case's the lead did nothing.

If you have a dog that is liable to snap around other dogs that are being sociable whether on a lead or off in my view it should be mussled. I dont expect to greet somebody in the street and let them punch me only to be told its my fault there not very friendly so in future stop saying hello to people.

Regards

Chris

 

[whippetsrus]

Well odd one out here, mine are off the lead all the time unless on paths / roads / bike where there is not much room to move. They are allowed to behave like a dog and as such dont mind sniffing other dogs bits for a few seconds then they move on. They have done this since they were puppies and we have had no problems with them being attacked or them being in any way aggressive to other dogs.
I dont see how you having a lead on your dog protects it, a whippets protection is its speed. This comes after we had a JR ripped open (Died) on a lead by a GSD and a mongrel attacked by 2 GSD's. In both case's the lead did nothing.

If you have a dog that is liable to snap around other dogs that are being sociable whether on a lead or off in my view it should be mussled. I dont expect to greet somebody in the street and let them punch me only to be told its my fault there not very friendly so in future stop saying hello to people.

Regards

Chris

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All I would say to that is when I got my first whippet ( a rescue) he suffered from IBD. This caused his bottom area, at times to be very tender. At these times despite treatment from our vet he would not want his nether regions sniffing as they would be tender.

I also know what what I see on my walks that not all dogs appreciate being sniffed and for some it is not a few seconds and then walk on.

There is a need for respect for every user and for the type of area that you are walking in.

 

[whippetsrus]

I now assume all other dog walkers are idiots unless proved otherwise.  Mine stay on their leads unless we are on the field and even then I have one eye on the entrance points just in-case another dog enters.  I don't particularly want to chat to eveyone I meet, I want my own space with my own dogs and that's all I ask.I am a miserable git really but I'm happy.  I don't find anything remotely social about dogs sniffing every other dogs bits, mine can do that in the privacy of their own home without doing it to every dog we meet, or even worse having it done to them by every dog we meet.

It's taken me 8 months to get Sparky back in the showring after being attacked, he'll never be the same dog he was but I'll make bl***y sure that no dog will ever attack him again.

Jenny

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I do not know Sparky's story but sympathise with your situation. I imagine that it has taken much hard work to get Sparky's confidence back. I hope that he continues to gain confidence and improves. :luck:

 

[maggymills]

my dog has a severe leg disease and that is why she will become defensive when bigger dogs jump up to her- its not because she is aggressive- she knows she is weak, and is behaving good when on or off lead, i dont appreciate people letting their dogs run up to mine when she is on lead, its not fair. when she is off lead she will show bossy dogs that she doesnt want to be sniffed all over and towered over- she is a good dog that will happily play, but wont tolerate dogs pushing her around, which is good, overwise she could incur an injury, and she has never hurt another dog, she is just noisy when she tells them off.

my mum hardly puts her dogs on leads but she never lets them run up to strange dogs, she waits till she confirms that they are ok. its etiquet whatever way.

 

[zilloot]

I'm wondering now if what I do is irresponsible?

Where I normally walk my dogs (woodland) we're lucky if we meet another dog 2-3 times a year! But I know other people are there occasionally.

I walk all six dogs off the lead and if we see someone coming a couple of them start barking. Zoomie rushes straight up barking and shouting but at the last minute approaches in a submissive position, has a sniff then moves off. My old girl (pack leader) keeps up the barking and growling/hackles until the dog is level and then calms down.

If this happens I never call them in (they would ignore me) because despite the noise they're sociable anyway. If the other dog is on a lead I'll put mine on if I have time but it's usually too late and they're off to say hello. I reckon where I am you accept the risk of other dogs being off-lead. I've got to say, so far, we've had NO problems. Once they say hello for a couple of seconds I call them and they come away.

If my lot are ON leads on our road walk then Zoomie and Zinzin scream like banshees until they're allowed to say hello to the other dog then everyone is fine. But these are all dogs we know so it's ok.

I can't remember the last time we met a strange dog around here. At dog shows etc my dogs are fine among dozens of other dogs.. but that's not 'home'.

 

[Seraphina]

Well, we have the "off-the leash" areas, and everywhere else dogs must be on the leash. It is OK here where I live; we have several “off the leash” parks as well as off the leash beach only about 5km from here. But there are areas where there is no dog park at all, and people have to drive long distances to let their dogs run. That also means that the dogs are concentrated there, especially as some parks are only "off the leash" in certain times of the day - like before 9am and after 7pm. So they are always crowded.

I am very careful avoiding problems while walking my dogs. I usually put them on the leash if there is a person coming with leashed dog. I also put them on the leash if a cyclist, elderly person, person with small child or jogger is approaching. But as these people come near us I always greet them and if possible get my dogs to interact with them. Except the joggers and cyclists, of-course.

Nevertheless, we still manage to get some uncomfortable moments. Just couple of days ago we were in the dog park and there were 2 ladies jogging. I watched them carefully and also watched my dogs' reaction to them. They paid no attention, although were well aware. I called my dogs closer to me anyway, and as the woman passed, the dogs just stood next to me while I placed my hands on their backs. After few moments I let go, we walked few steps when Genevieve just shot out and before I could even open my mouth she tripped up one of the women. Fortunately, she was not hurt, and loved dogs. :b

It is just so hard to get it right; keep your dog from menacing and possibly injuring somebody, getting them socialised without getting hurt by other dogs. While I want my dogs to get the opportunity to meet other dogs and have a off the leash games, I most enjoy walks when we do not meet anybody, and I can let them off the leash to walk/run at their own pace, doing their own thing.

 

[whippetsrus]

I most enjoy walks when we do not meet anybody, and I can let them off the leash to walk/run at their own pace, doing their own thing.

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Whilst I encourage mine to socialise, I agree that this is the best time of all.

 

[OEH]

I think I like it best when we meet people we know whos dogs get on with ours, so I get to have a chat and the dogs get to meet other friends which they seem to enjoy, but I'd rather meet noone than have a walk when every few minutes I have to put the girls on leads because there are fishermen, picnics, joggers, cyclists, kites, people with dogs on leads, dogs I know are unfriendly.............

 

[Nicola]

It is just so hard to get it right; keep your dog from menacing and possibly injuring somebody, getting them socialised without getting hurt by other dogs.  While I want my dogs to get the opportunity to meet other dogs and have a off the leash games, I most enjoy walks when we do not meet anybody, and I can let them off the leash to walk/run at their own pace, doing their own thing.

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That sums it up really.

 

[~elizabeth~]

I think what most of us are really saying is that we don't like dogs that we feel are displaying inappropriate behaviour, and whose owners are not sufficiently experienced to be sensitive to awkward situations or canine body language, either with their own or other peoples' dogs, and that's something I would entirely agree with, even if we all have a different views about how to handle some of these situations.

One of the worst problems is people who do not distinguish between the behaviour their dogs shows to people and dogs; usually this is expressed by 'don't worry he's a big soft boy', whilst their rottweiler/boxer/lab/staffie is actually growling and baring it's teeth at your dog. Just because a dog is sociable and submissive with people doesn't mean it will be the same with other dogs. Again, the problem is usually down to not really understanding body language and behaviour.

I've done a fair bit of 'stooge' work with my dogs for a friend who is a dog behaviourist and works with aggressive dogs....Doubt if it would work if a dog was coming into attack though.

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Very interesting :thumbsup:

I did have a situation last week when a dog known to be highly aggressive escaped and approached us at speed snarling as we were passing his house. I yelled 'stop' in my best seargent major voice as a reflex, and amazingly he did. I managed to keep him 'staying' (with Gelert, on-lead, behind my legs to avoid eye contact) until his owner turned up, having failed to call him back. :sweating: Don't know whether this was the right thing to do, as I only had seconds to react.

The problem in this case is the dog, a rescue staffie, is left in the front room all day, and hurls himself against the glass trying to attack every person passing on the pavement. I think the first thing his owners could do is reduce his level of frustration by keeping him in a different room throughout the day.

t I'd rather meet noone than have a walk when every few minutes I have to put the girls on leads because there are fishermen, picnics, joggers, cyclists, kites, people with dogs on leads, dogs I know are unfriendly.............

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...fishermen :nuke: land yaughts :nuke: :nuke: the person who used to spend whole afternoons launching his home-made rockets in all directions :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: and finally the microlite pilot who deliberately set off a mass stampede (which we were caught in the middle of ) by continually flying low just of the heads over the cattle/horse herds to make them terrified :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: It takes all sorts... :wacko:

 

[lurcherman]

there r sides to both issues but im like max and smokey..

 

[Seraphina]

Well odd one out here, mine are off the lead all the time unless on paths / roads / bike where there is not much room to move. They are allowed to behave like a dog and as such dont mind sniffing other dogs bits for a few seconds then they move on. They have done this since they were puppies and we have had no problems with them being attacked or them being in any way aggressive to other dogs.
I dont see how you having a lead on your dog protects it, a whippets protection is its speed. This comes after we had a JR ripped open (Died) on a lead by a GSD and a mongrel attacked by 2 GSD's. In both case's the lead did nothing.

Regards

Chris

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There was a time I also let my dogs off the leash more than I do now. There was a time i did not bother to put them on the leash when cyclists approached, until one day one of the dogs we were with darted across the path of a bike. The cyclist had no chance stopping, hit the dog and fell off. Fortunately, both were fine. Then there was the case of a dog who knocked over old lady in the park and she broke her pelvis. The dog's owner is being sued.

If you have a dog that is liable to snap around other dogs that are being sociable whether on a lead or off in my view it should be mussled. I dont expect to greet somebody in the street and let them punch me only to be told its my fault there not very friendly so in future stop saying hello to people.

The problem with this is that a dog on the leash is a dog "under control", while your off the leash dog is not, so if anything happens you would be considered at fault. When people have their dogs on the leash i assume the dog is not friendly and make sure mine do not approach it. Also my dogs tend to aproach other dogs at full speed and their game is by no means gentle. So i am carefull with small dogs, until I am sure they, and their owners, can handle the Whippet games.

 

[Seraphina]

I did have a situation last week when a dog known to be highly aggressive escaped and approached us at speed snarling as we were passing his house. I yelled 'stop' in my best seargent major voice as a reflex, and amazingly he did. I managed to keep him 'staying' (with Gelert, on-lead, behind my legs to avoid eye contact) until his owner turned up, having failed to call him back.  :sweating:   Don't know whether this was the right thing to do, as I only had seconds to react.

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Over the years I have been in situation like that on many times. Walking my dogs daily and many miles, especially in the past when it was quite normal to leave dogs free to roam the streets, it is not surprising. I always did exactly the same as you Elizabeth, I stood my ground and ordered the attacking dog to stop, sit, down........... Whatever, just talking to it in strict voice as deep as I could muster, it always worked. :thumbsup:

 

[Max&Smokey]

The cyclist had no chance stopping, hit the dog and fell off. Fortunately, both were fine. Then there was the case of a dog who knocked over old lady in the park and she broke her pelvis. The dog's owner is being sued.

Totally agree if you have a dog you should have 3rd party insurance incase you are sued. There will always be accidents when you have a dog running at speeds upto 40 miles per hour. But I did get a running dog, If I didnt let it run I could not stand it.

The problem with this is that a dog on the leash is a dog "under control", while your off the leash dog is not, so if anything happens you would be considered at fault. When people have their dogs on the leash i assume the dog is not friendly and make sure mine do not approach it. Also my dogs tend to aproach other dogs at full speed and their game is by no means gentle. So i am carefull with small dogs, until I am sure they, and their owners, can handle the Whippet games.

My dogs have not ever attacked, hurt or made any indication of hurting another dog. If they did they would be on a lead and or muzzled. I believe if a dog is brought up correctly and socialised from an early age you will not have any problems. I will always accept any liability for what my dog does.

Dont get me wrong , my dogs are not out of control annoying everybody, I just dont have any problems with them at this point in time. If I do I am sure my views will change

 

[Janimal]

I did have a situation last week when a dog known to be highly aggressive escaped and approached us at speed snarling as we were passing his house. I yelled 'stop' in my best seargent major voice as a reflex, and amazingly he did. I managed to keep him 'staying' (with Gelert, on-lead, behind my legs to avoid eye contact) until his owner turned up, having failed to call him back.   :sweating:   Don't know whether this was the right thing to do, as I only had seconds to react.

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Over the years I have been in situation like that on many times. Walking my dogs daily and many miles, especially in the past when it was quite normal to leave dogs free to roam the streets, it is not surprising. I always did exactly the same as you Elizabeth, I stood my ground and ordered the attacking dog to stop, sit, down........... Whatever, just talking to it in strict voice as deep as I could muster, it always worked. :thumbsup:

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Wished Id been able to do this when Chip was attacked way back in 2000, unfortunately sheer fear and terror set in as it ripped him apart. I still have flashbacks.....