Price Of A Puppy!!

[Jan Doherty]

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I dont think this has gone off thread at all. The thread was about the price of a puppy which happened to be a whippet and lets face it the cost of puppies in all breeds is outrageous. There are a lot of people on here who have both Iggies and Whips so the thread is now covering both breeds thats all.

I would say Whippets are more costly to rear than Iggies so why do whippets cost so much less to buy? Easy they are more readily available and people are not being told that there are none available.

As to cost of rearing off the top of my head for my last iggie litter of 4 born 2 years ago and reared to about 14 weeks these are approximate figures as I just pay it I dont think about it.

Stud Fee £0

Scan of Bitch £36

Trip to vets during whelping £101

Dew Claws £40

Worming £20

Vaccinations £200

Food £100 (mainly for biscuit as I have a very cheap supplier of meat)

Puppy Registation £32 plus an export pedigree £?

Top that up with toys and new bedding. £30

All pups go with food and a bed

I certainly didnt spend anything like a £1000 to rear all 4 pups and mine are reared like potential Derby winners (w00t)

As someone said earlier if you have to think about the cost then you should be thinking about if you should really breed.

Having siad all that if people want to breed they will do so regardless of the cost implications because they wont believe you and will know better.

The whole point of this thread is that prices (regardless of the breed) has reached silly proportions, some people care and some dont about where the puppies go, some people will see it as a way of making money a bit like going to a car boot sale each Sunday Some will cash in on their dogs bloodlines (lets face it how many litters suddenly had Cobyco breeding in their bloodlines a couple of years ago)

And last but not least the whole point of these forums is for healthy debate and people to discuss, argue, agree or disagree with each others points of view and so long as the personal attacks are kept in control and I am sure the moderators will do that then no problem

 

[chelynnah]

And I am afraid to say research and reading as many books as you like will not give you the experience of see dogs develop over many years will 'get your eye' and have a better understanding of the dogs in your chosen line. I personally think this would take about  6 to 8 years.

You're right - book reading and research doesn't necessarily give you all the experience you need - but you're forgetting about mentors. That's what the mentors are there for - to help guide you in the right direction, to help you see what you're looking for. I wouldn't consider breeding without the help, support and guidance of the people who bred my own dogs and taking advantage of their knowledge, along with the accessing knowledge of others who have been in the breed a long time and have become friends and mentors.

Just another view

Wendy (now back to sitting on the sidelines again)

 

[chelynnah]

And last but not least the whole point of these forums is for healthy debate and people to discuss, argue, agree or disagree with each others points of view and so long as the personal attacks are kept in control and I am sure the moderators will do that then no problem

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Thanks for that Jan - yes healthy debate is good, but there are a few posts bordering on personal attacks. Why can't we have a good healthy debate and agree to disagree on some parts of it. Just because we don't always agree on every point doesn't make us enemies or give us the right to personally attack the poster.

This is a really interesting, though touchy, discussion and everyone's opinion is valid (even the newbies') even if it doesn't match your own.

Wendy

 

[jok]

And I am afraid to say research and reading as many books as you like will not give you the experience of see dogs develop over many years will 'get your eye' and have a better understanding of the dogs in your chosen line. I personally think this would take about  6 to 8 years.

You're right - book reading and research doesn't necessarily give you all the experience you need - but you're forgetting about mentors. That's what the mentors are there for - to help guide you in the right direction, to help you see what you're looking for. I wouldn't consider breeding without the help, support and guidance of the people who bred my own dogs and taking advantage of their knowledge, along with the accessing knowledge of others who have been in the breed a long time and have become friends and mentors.

Just another view

Wendy (now back to sitting on the sidelines again)

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Hi Wendy - you've made a great point about mentors and accessing other knowledge. Agree 100% :thumbsup:

 

[echo]

And I am afraid to say research and reading as many books as you like will not give you the experience of see dogs develop over many years will 'get your eye' and have a better understanding of the dogs in your chosen line. I personally think this would take about  6 to 8 years.

You're right - book reading and research doesn't necessarily give you all the experience you need - but you're forgetting about mentors. That's what the mentors are there for - to help guide you in the right direction, to help you see what you're looking for. I wouldn't consider breeding without the help, support and guidance of the people who bred my own dogs and taking advantage of their knowledge, along with the accessing knowledge of others who have been in the breed a long time and have become friends and mentors.

Just another view

Wendy (now back to sitting on the sidelines again)

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I have to say I agree Wendy, Mentors are of massive importance. Unfortuniatly the first people I had contact with are long since gone. I still have people in the breed whos opinion I rely upon on a regular basis and class these as my mentors today. Still learning after a long apprenticeship.

Another point is I have also seen many, 'Flash in the pan' experts, in the breed for a few years then gone never to be seen again. bred a litter or two on the way. So I don't expect this thread to change anything.

As for the costs of breeding, all you really need to know is it expensive and don't expect to make money from it. If you clear a few pounds yours lucky. This will soon be taken care of over the next few shows or a visit to the vets.

 

[dolly]

So Echos what your breeding, what dogs have you had, who were your mentors ??

 

[echo]

So what is peoples opinions on Judging?

Can this experience be achieved by reading books?

Personally I think again apprenticeship and years of Showing, judging and owning quality dogs is this best.

We will have people Judging Crufts before too long that have only ever had One dog, and then we will have dogs with incorrect movement getting best of breed!

 

[chelynnah]

So what is peoples opinions on Judging?
Can this experience be achieved by reading books?

Personally I think again apprenticeship and years of Showing, judging and owning quality dogs is this best.

We will have people Judging Crufts before too long that have only ever had One dog, and then we will have dogs with incorrect movement getting best of breed!

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This should be a separate thread, but I believe I'm correct in sayng that you already have discussed this topic and it was one of your very first posts here? (see this thread http://www.k9community.co.uk/forums/index....topic=26900&hl= - and your post #13)

However if you do want to discuss it it would be best done as a separate topic so as not to make this thread more diverse than it already is. If you like I can separate it out.

Wendy

 

[echo]

So Echos what your breeding, what dogs have you had, who were your mentors ??

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Is this relevant? will this make an opinion less or more important?

It would be better if Echo remains just a voice from the bench, It is hoped Echo never attacks anyone personally, just brings healthy discussion to the forum that wouldn't happen if Echo became know by name/names, face or faces.

This way people can say what they feel in return without worry this may affect them in anyway.

I hope that Echo is just that, an Echo of opinions that comes from the ringside and benches and is not the opinion of one person.

If this is unwanted then Echo can be removed and will not return under another name.

 

[chelynnah]

So Echos what your breeding, what dogs have you had, who were your mentors ??

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Is this relevant? will this make an opinion less or more important?

It would be better if Echo remains just a voice from the bench, It is hoped Echo never attacks anyone personally, just brings healthy discussion to the forum that wouldn't happen if Echo became know by name/names, face or faces.

This way people can say what they feel in return without worry this may affect them in anyway.

I hope that Echo is just that, an Echo of opinions that comes from the ringside and benches and is not the opinion of one person.

If this is unwanted then Echo can be removed and will not return under another name.

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Well personally, actually it very much could make a difference. I pretty much know who most of the people are on the thread are who've replied. Whether I agree or not with them, because I know who they are I understand where they are coming from and respect their opinion.

too many people these days hide behind an anonymous keyboard claiming to be the voice of the masses which is supposed to excuse inflammatory behaviour and remarks.

I have more respect for people's thoughts and opinions when I know where they're coming from (like I said even if I don't agree with them), and am more inclined to continue a discussion with a real person than with an 'entity' that refers to themselves in the third person and claims to make statements on behalf of those at the benches and ringsides.

Wendy

 

[kris]

i think its a healthy open topic and some really interesting views, discussions and opinions have come up.if echo chooses to remain anonymous then thats their choice.i dont have a problem with it. i think theyve raised some good questions here,maybe if everyone knows who you are its harder to say what you want.im pretty anonymous myself i dont show whippys i never have done but ive bred shown and judged over a period of 30 plus years and i love a good discussion.im always interested in hearing other peoples views as i believe that diversity is a good thing.and you can always learn something new. :thumbsup:

 

[vivo]

Stud fee Approx £350, plus travelling to and from £35

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Plus £150+ for a boat if you live in Ireland.

 

[echo]

Well personally, actually it would. I pretty much know who most of the people are on the thread are who've replied. Whether I agree or not with them, because I know who they are I understand where they are coming from and respect their opinion.

too many people these days hide behind an anonymous keyboard claiming to be the voice of the masses which is supposed to excuse inflammatory behaviour and remarks.

I have more respect for people's thoughts and opinions when I know where they're coming from (like I said even if I don't agree with them), and am more inclined to continue a discussion with a real person than with an 'entity' that refers to themselves in the third person and claims to make statements on behalf of those at the benches and ringsides.

Wendy

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Sorry to hear this.

Not sure about the inflammatiry behaviour & remarks?

 

[whippynit]

So Echos what your breeding, what dogs have you had, who were your mentors ??

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I was thinking that too Helen :thumbsup: Echo seems quick to air views on newcomers, and gaining experience etc but then doesnt want anyone to know who they are :blink: surely they would want people to know who they are so maybe the newcomers could come to them for advise? or maybe they just want to stand back and watch people make mistakes and then moan about it and wonder why! Maybe people are too frightened to go to people like echo for advise! Think its abit hypocritical myself.

Mostly everyone on here introduces themselves, puts piccies on etc but echo isnt interested in this

Duck for cover! :sweating: :teehee:

 

[jok]

So how do we 'serve our apprenticeship'?

Classes once a week, work based training, Master degree...... (w00t)

Was wondering what YOU expect people to do!

 

[jok]

So Echos what your breeding, what dogs have you had, who were your mentors ??

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I was thinking that too Helen :thumbsup: Echo seems quick to air views on newcomers, and gaining experience etc but then doesnt want anyone to know who they are :blink: surely they would want people to know who they are so maybe the newcomers could come to them for advise? or maybe they just want to stand back and watch people make mistakes and then moan about it and wonder why! Maybe people are too frightened to go to people like echo for advise! Think its abit hypocritical myself.

Mostly everyone on here introduces themselves, puts piccies on etc but echo isnt interested in this

Duck for cover! :sweating: :teehee:

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I agree Lisa and also Wendy. It's easier to trust someone's post and take them seriously if they are prepared to say who they are. If not im rather suspicious they are just trying to stir up a hornets nest! JMO

 

[chelynnah]

Sorry to hear this.Not sure about the inflammatiry behaviour & remarks?

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Sorry - that was bit of a generalisation and I shouldn't necessarily have done so, but in another way it goes to prove the point. You also have made a few generalisations and the feeling from your posts comes across (while not necessarily being deliberately inflammatory) that newbies (of which I am one having only been in the breed - though not new to dogs or breeding - for just over 6 years) can't possibly breed responsibly or ethically because they haven't done the time, and lumping all into the same category.

I will be breeding my first litter later this year with a lot of thought and research and discussion having gone into it. I will also (being my first litter) be spending a heck of a lot more on this first litter than many long time breeders sould currently do because I am starting from scratch and don't necessarily have the supplies to hand so will need to stock up on things that I can then reuse. Chances are also that since I will be wanting to do my best by the pups, I will likely end up spending money on things I may find unnessecary later (or things I can put away and use again later so won't be expenses next time) but all the same, expenses may actually be MORE for me as a first time breeder than for a long time breeder.

I will be selling all pups at the same price whether they go to pet homes or show homes. I will be relying on the expertise of my mentors, in addition to what I have learned over the years, to aid me in choosing the right dogs to keep and in evaluating the litter.

My time and effort and love and sweat and tears and everything else is worth just as much as anyone elses, so why shouldn't I ask what is around the 'going rate' for a pup. And certainly I won't have put any less time and effort and money into the pups going to pet homes so why should they be any less than the ones going to show homes.

So yes, I am offended (as I know others are, but I can only speak for myself, not the silent masses - note tongue in cheek there) when someone makes a sweeping statement about someone they may or may not know and about newbies in general.

In essence your very first post could have been about me. I don't have Ch girls, I've been moderately successful in different venues (Savannah more in Open shows and Teya more at Champ shows), but I could still be that person you were talking about, and by lumping all in that category it's offensive - esp when someone doesn't know you or where you're coming from, so can't put your comments into any type of context.

I actually wasn't going to make much comment on this thread because I wasn't sure I could word it without ending up being inflammatory. I hope I've succeded in getting my point across without being too harsh. It hasn't been my intention to be harsh, just state what I see and why it would make it easier for me to hear an opinion (esp a potentially offensive one) from someone who I understand who they are (even if I don't know them personally).

Wendy

 

[whippynit]

Sorry to hear this.

Not sure about the inflammatiry behaviour & remarks?

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Sorry - that was bit of a generalisation and I shouldn't necessarily have done so, but in another way it goes to prove the point. You also have made a few generalisations and the feeling from your posts comes across (while not necessarily being deliberately inflammatory) that newbies (of which I am one having only been in the breed - though not new to dogs or breeding - for just over 6 years) can't possibly breed responsibly or ethically because they haven't done the time, and lumping all into the same category.

I will be breeding my first litter later this year with a lot of thought and research and discussion having gone into it. I will also (being my first litter) be spending a heck of a lot more on this first litter than many long time breeders do because I am starting from scratch and don't necessarily have the supplies to hand, and will be wanting to do my best by the pups, so will likely end up spending money on things I may find unnessecary later (or things I can put away and use again later so won't be expenses next time).

I will be selling all pups at the same price whether they go to pet homes or show homes. I will be relying on the expertise of my mentors, in addition to what I have learned over the years, to aid me in choosing the right dogs to keep and in evaluating the litter.

My time and effort and love and sweat and tears and everything else is worth just as much as anyone elses, so why shouldn't I ask what is around the 'going rate' for a pup. And certainly I won't have put any less time and effort and money into the pups going to pet homes so why should they be any less than the ones going to show homes.

So yes, I am offended (as I know others are, but I can only speak for myself, not the silent masses - note tongue in cheek there) when someone makes a sweeping statement about someone they may or may not know and about newbies in general.

I actually wasn't going to make much comment on this thread because I wasn't sure I could word it without ending up being inflammatory. I hope I've succeded in getting my point across without being too harsh. It hasn't been my intention to be harsh, just state what I see and why it would make it easier for me to hear an opinion (esp a potentially offensive one) from someone who I understand who they are (even if I don't know them personally).

Wendy

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My thoughts exactly Wendy, You put across what i was trying to say! :thumbsup:

 

[ROSIE MEADOWS]

Don't know if I should comment as I don't actually have a whippet. I love them to pieces and know several but my job means I couldn't care for them properly as I'm away from home so often.

However, here goes.

Everybody has to start somewhere. So what if you don't breed a litter of show winners. As long as they are healthy and from healthy lines they will make adorable companions and family members in their pet homes. The integrity of the breeder doesn't (in my opinion) necessarily improve with age, also many who have served their "apprenticeship" may still produce a badly constucted or sickly litter just to see what happens if............

Sorry to but in. Have never bred a litter of whippets but I imagine (having been brought up on a farm) that the rules of general animal husbandry apply.

Rosie

(and yes, that is my name, but not the Meadows part, that comes from the farm)

 

[alfyn]

Well said Wendy :thumbsup:

Ok,so i have only been actively showing whippets for 5 years,though i did show/judge/breed gsd's for 15+ years,so i do feel i have a good eye for a good dog!

I was fortunate enough to get Flyn & show him very successfully(he has his stud book number)

During the first year or so of showing him,i did my homework( & attended 2 workshops) & will continue to do so in the future.

During this time,i became good friends with Roz Holland,who was good enough to let me have Poppy,so i could show her & eventually breed from her.

As you are probably aware,Roz has had whippets for 30 + years so more than knows her stuff, i have learned a great deal from her,& am proud to have her as my mentor :thumbsup:

So,only 4 short years into the breed,i had my first litter & am very proud of them.2 of them are ch show winners,& 2 have so far won at open show level.

And more importantly,they have wonderful temperaments & are healthy!

So,are you telling me that i am wrong to have bred a litter in the short time i have been in the breed? :blink:

& yes,i shall be having another litter at the end of this year,& apart from the fact that i am breeding this litter for me,i have homes already lined up for the rest of the litter

& i fully intend to be around the show ring for the rest of my life!!!