Should Hunting Be Banned in Scotland/Wales/England

[Mark Roberts]

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As the recent post have shown Theres a bill being put through parliament England & Scotland to ban hunting this bill would not only ban hunting but could/would cause many dog owners to be wrongly accused.

the bill has already gone through in Scotland but England still has time to stop it but dog owners need to write to their MPs telling them that this bill MUST be stopped.

THIS IS NOT AN ANTI HUNTING BILL BUT AN ANTI DOG BILL

you're thoughts and feelings please.

 

[Scott Frodsham]

My local MP doesn't listen to me, he doesn't have the common courtesy to reply to my letters. He ignores me, I'll ignore him and his government.

It amazes me that in an age when 11 year olds are being stabbed on the streets, carjackings are on the rise, old people can't walk the streets for fear that members of parliment see banning fox hunting as their main priority!

Regards,

Scott.

 

[Cu-Luath Whippets]

In Scotland the vote was up to individual MP's - in other words, they voted as they felt!  Now that's democracy for you!

 

[Mark Roberts]

At last!

        Two members of the board have voted that they would like to see a ban,

now when I set this poll up I was hopeing that it would get people to descuse the hunting with dogs bill, but unfortunatly that hasn't happened.

so to try and get things going i'll outline my thoughts on the main forms of hunting.

Fox Hunting ~ this is the hunting that the bill claims to want to stop, i've been lucky enough to have been invited to a hunt kennels to meet the hunts man and hounds at close quarters and I thoughraly enjoyed the day, I was then invited out with the hounds hunting, did they catch? yes the first time 2 foxes the second time 3 all were despatched quickly and sufferd if any very little pain.

I don't think this is the most effective form of fox control available but it is a god day out seeing Hounds do what they are bred to do.

Hare Coursing ~ this is another form of hunting that the bill claims to want banned, i've taken part in live hare coursing and I always attend the waterloo cup, again it's not a form of pest control but a good day out watching good dogs (greyhounds/whippets ect) doing what they do best.

Lurcher work ~ this is a form of hunting that the bill never mentions but the one it will affect most with the largest number of people being affected, now this is real hunting, it involves a person with running dogs (greyhounds/whippets/lurchers ect) going out either in the day time or at night with a lamp and catching rabbits/hares & fox. is it a good form of pest control? yes but it is also a very enjoyable time and in the case of rabbits/hares can fill the freezer nicely for a good pie or stew and the fox doesn't get to eat a farmers chicken or lambs.

now unfortunatly the hunting with dogs bill states that it will be illegal to allow any dog to chase or kill any wild mammal so it wont only put a stop to all of the above but will mean that thousands of inocent dog owners who's dogs chase a squirrel or rabbit in the local park or woods will be prosicuted for nothing more than walking their dogs in a place that contains wild mammals as the bill states that a police officer only has to prove intent and he can prosecute now by taking a running dog where there are wild mammals that would be enough to prove intent.?

now to end this long post my personal feelings!

I can understand if Mr X wants fox hunting banned as it is after all only for pleasure as is hare coursing and they prove no real measure of pest control,

but I cannot understand why legitamate lurcher work (ie: rabbiting) should be classed the same as the first 2  and banned as this is a very effective form of pest control.

also this bill will affect as i've said ALL dog owners who walk their dogs on/off the lead in areas which contain wild mammals.

please post you're thoughts positives & negatives

 

[Mark Roberts]

Hi BeeJay

            WHOOOOOOPS!

When I said England of course I was including Wales as part of England

come on Nigel save my bacon by adding Wales to the title?

for all those west of the border SORRY

 

[Nigel]

That's a pint you owe me  

 

[michelle]

I'm not really for or against hunting with dogs.I think that if you want to control vermin(foxes, rabbits, rats etc) there are worse ways to do it than hunting with dogs. I believe it should be up to the landowner to choose how he wants vermin controlled-afterall it's his land and he should be allowed to do with it what he chooses.

 

[Terry Smith]

The argument for hunting with dogs is that it is "organic". Conducted fairly & properly the weaker animal should be brought down whilst the stronger one escapes. The end is messy but no more painful than any other ending. No healthy animal surrenders it's life willingly. I was brought up in an area where hares were an everyday sight. Now those fields are covered in "industrial buildings" i.e warehouses where half a dozen people drive stacker trucks for £4 an hour. As far as I know the unemployment problem these building schemes were supposed to relieve is no less. The roads & building schemes have made far greater inroads into wildlife populations than all the hunting put together.   As Scott said when this country is beset by so many real problems which intrude into all our lives one way or another, this proposed legislation is just a cheap sideshow.

 

[Mark Roberts]

Thanks Nigel

               That might just?  save me a slatting in the W/N from the Welsh Wizard (MR D)

Thanks Michelle & Terry for both you're comment's, from people I speak to most feel the same as Michelle and dont realy have feelings either way.

I recently stood in a local town shopping center watching 2 Anti hunt gentlemen (well it is a family board) They had the usual signs claiming mass slaughter by dogs (funny how there only seems to be the same 4 pictures all over the country?)

these two gentlemen were asking members of the public to sign a petition to ban hunting and another to ban drug testing on animals, their ultimate request was for money to pay for the fight. but they were very intimidating in the approch and verged on agresive.

now to deal with each seperatly

Hunting = well we've coverd that one, but it was supprising that when their ways were blocked how many people took the pen and signed it, I pulled one bloke and asked why he had signed and he stated "well no one listens to them lot do they" sorry but Mr Blair does.

now testing drugs on Animals? = I have three children and if theres a drug available that could make them well should they get a desease and it has been tested on animals so what, I rate hunman life higher than an animal and fully support testing if done in a sensative manner and the animals MUST be given the best of care while being used.

now the asking for money bit! = I was shocked at the amount of money people where happy to give just to get away/past these two thugs, now this is were the story gets interesting while I was watching (approx 15 mins) a police officer came past? I pulled him and explained that I was offended by the actions of these two individuals and that I felt he should check for a street traders liscence or move them on (preferably arrest them) for begging and causing a nusance? the police man claimed he couldn't see what they were doing wronge and was to busy anyway?.

i'm just hopeing he's still busy if they ban hunting and he sees my lamp?

 

[Cu-Luath Whippets]

I was talking to a 'terrier man' recently - as Mark says he reckons they've been sold down the river.

In Scotland, the Bill has been discussed, processed and passed by those who know nothing of the process of vermin control and who care nothing for countryside practices and the natural laws of life.  The rest of the country seem to be following the Scottish lead, unfortunately.

In the process, your honest dog owner is likely to be caught up in spin off.  

Also during the course of this conversation and several similar ones I've had recently, it has been pointed out how terrified hunting people are of declaring their interest.  They refuse to put their name to published articles, refuse to list their phone numbers, addresses, in some cases their house and property are regularly checked by the police to protect them.  WHY??  Because they are concerned that if they speak out their view, they will be fire bombed, have their wife, children and animals threatened and tortured, sent dangerous packages and so on and so on.  What is this country coming to - when we cannot air our views for fear of our lives?  and there is little if any reprisal in law?  

FREEDOM - we are all entitled to our views and to say how we feel, without being permanently maimed, or killed - well I thought that was democracy?  Obviously I am old and senile and not up to date any more - but then I suppose even Wallace was tortured and killed for his belief in freedom!

 

[Mark Roberts]

June

     What do you mean they've tortured and killed Wallace? what will Gromet do now? no more funny cartoons!

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOPS i've made a mistake AGAIN? you're not talking of Wallace as in Wallace and Gromet are you?.

if anyone wants to see the views of REAL dog men who spend hours on end working their dogs to control ALL vermin for pest control and not just for pleasure then visit

www.workingterrier.co.uk but please be warned these are real working dog men who's terms and frazzes may cause offence, as they talk straight.

I personaly feel we've not only been sold down the river without a paddle, I also think they are about to bomb the boat just to be sure, The Coutryside Alliance claims to fight for all Feildsports? all I can say is RUBBISH, in a recent interview on TV (last year) a representative of the Countryside Alliance was asked would they compremise and give up Coursing/lurcher work if they were allowed to keep fox hunting ? he decliened to answer! ENOUGH SAID.

 

[michael]

Mark i whole hartedly agree with what you have said, if a sighthound goes after any form of prey , it has  two chances it is either  caught and dispatched or goes on to fight for another day. I wonder how many anti's will complaining when the only forms of pest control left are shooting, trapping or gassing ! and the countryside is littered with tha carcases of wounded and dying animals.

Also i wonder if they are also going to address the issue of the amount of wildlife (rabbits included) that cats take each year? will it soon be illegal t let your cat roam too lol ???

 

[Scott Frodsham]

Some people don't have a clue! I work with an idiot who was brought up in the rolling fields of Liverpool who thinks hunting of any form is cruel. He went to Uni and is a vegitarian and believes in peace, love and harmony. He's looking to buy a new car, but he's not interested unless it's got leather seats !!!!!!!  

Oh yes his Dad's a labour councilor and he thinks Tony's a smashing chap.

 

[michelle]

there`s an interesting article on the working terrier site about whippets at http://www.moocher.uklinux.net/article.htm obviously written a few years ago.

 

[Mark Roberts]

Hi Barbara

            The plan by both Governments,? was that rat hunting would still be allowed as the Antis ~ "dont like them little black things with long tails!" so they have been or were supposed to be left out of the ~ Save the Lovely fluffy little sweetheart bill.

I must say that in a time when a lot in the country is going wronge and MPs need a ASBO (anti social behaviour order) on them that Mr Blair goes on holiday,! (sorry he's on a politicle tour?) ha!

 

[Cu-Luath Whippets]

Hi Barbara

I'll double check rats for you when I get home, as I dont have the bill with me here.  

If memory serves me right (and that's very dodgy at my ripe old age!!)  there were no exceptions - you just have to flush them out and shoot them!

I think politicians might come under the wild mammals banner?  What a sport that could become!

 

[dawn]

Should hunting be banned IS debateable.

Should people who post information regarding the Scottish bill be banned from dog boards?

Well I have been!

Not for advocating hunting but putting forward some of the points raised earlier iin this thread. Particularly points such as any dog chasing and catching for example a squirrel MAY be taken from the owner etc., the legislation is not solely anti fox-hunting etc etc.

My posts have been removed and my name blackened along with that of my kennel!  

I am now not allowed access to clear my name, or more importantly, that of my dogs.

BTW the board's owner did threaten to 'report me to my breed club' which would be quite amusing as most whippet club committees have a number of pro-hunting members in their ranks.    

 

[Mark Roberts]

Hi Dawn

         First of all it just shows how much thanks we owe Nigel & Judy for allowing us all to have our say, openly and without fear of being censured, regardless of their own views on certain issues.

The issue you highlight just shows how so called dog owners would rather bury their heads in the sand and stop others who may speak out against this i'll written badly worded bill.

i'm sorry you have had this problem if you would like to send me the address of this other site I will happily visit/register and have a say?.

As for them threatening you with the breed club? is this a breed club that represents whippets and all their disaplines or one of the "narrow minded we will only support the disaplines we think politicaly correct breed clubs"

The Main answer I would have for the narrow minded biggots of the other site is to contact the Kennel Club who have come out and spoken clearly AGAINST this bill on hunting with hounds! as they feel it will affect ALL dog owners.

 

[Vanna]

Dawn,

I'm appalled!  maybe we should all go to that board and register our disapproval - even if the posts don't stay up for very long!  Maybe I am naive, but I thought discussion boards were just that - DISCUSSION boards, and that people only got struck off if they became personal and abusive, not because they held opinions that differ from the forum moderators!  ???

As for reporting you to your breed club - that is just laughable!

 

[Cu-Luath Whippets]

Dawn

Like Vanna & Mark I am appalled, and happy to register my disapproval also.

Do they perhaps fear the truth of what may happen when the ban goes through for all the dogs, that innocently chase squirrels and rabbits in the park.  The costs and repercussions that will be highlighted.

Thank goodness for this board which allows logical and reasoned discussion and the ability to raise concerns to all dog owners.