Wcra 2nd Champs Results

[Nigel]

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Sorry it's a bit late but I've just noticed that the official results of the second champs have been posted on the whippet club site. As no one seems to have posted them on the WCRA notice board I thought I'd copy them here instead.

The Whippet Club Racing Association

Results for 2nd Championships 2004,

held at Moreton-In-Marsh on 13th June

240 yards Bend

 

Not Exceeding 16lbs

1st Angela Parker ‘ CRYSTAL STAR’ – Sunlay’s Stars In Crystal

(Merry Gale x Sunlay’s Black Opal)

2nd Linda Turner ‘ My Song’ – Chalkners Love Song

(Goodad Trying Again x Karyon Songbird)

3rd Ted & Terri Smith ‘ Lowen Citizen’ – Trebarveth Skye’s The Limit

(Karyon Poldarks Fyre x Townshend Interleven)

4th Kevin & Lyn Swain ‘ WCRCh Saxon Gold’ – Karyon Golden Holly (Non-Runner)

(Saxon Blade x Karyon Fire ‘n’ Ice)

 

Heat Wins : Lighthouse Mirage, Crystal Star, Lowen Citizen.

Semi Final Wins: My Song, Crystal Star

 

Not Exceeding 18lbs

1st K. Purvis ‘ WCRCH CLOSE TO CRAZY’ – Tap Dancer

(Tradawin Bow Bell Bomber x Magic Dancer)

2nd Margaret Robinson ‘ WCRCh Chase The Pied Piper – Karyon Chase The Pied Piper

(Saxon Blade x Karyon Fire ‘n’ Ice)

3rd Linda Turner ‘ Songbird ’ – Karyon Songbird

(Saxon Blade x Karyon Rising Flame)

4th Angela Parker ‘ Coral Camellia’ – Sunlay’s Camellia’s In Coral

(Merry Gale x Sunlay’s Black Opal)

 

Heat Wins : WCRCh Chase The Pied Piper, Whiphaven Moondust, Close To Crazy, Golden Snitch

Semi Final Wins : WCRCh Chase The Pied Piper, Songbird.

 

Congratulations on ‘Close To Crazy’ on becoming a Whippet Club Racing Champion.

 

Not Exceeding 20lbs

1st J & S Pedder ‘ WCRCH FULLER SPIRIT’ – Sky Storm

(Catch The Wind x One To Note)

2nd Sally & Cliff Bunyan ‘ Hot Stuff’ – Gone Fishing

(Just Dandy x Carondias Scrumptious)

3rd Lesley Harris ‘ Xcalibur ’ – Poseidon’s Pride

(Shades of Grey x Goodad Tiller Girl)

4th Kim Saxby ‘ WCRCh Guye’s Guinevere’ – Marine Maiden with Sandspring

(Jolly Minx x Townshend Dalwhinnie)

 

Heat Wins : Xcalibur, WCRCh Guye’s Guinevere, Hot Stuff, WCRCh Fuller Spirit

Semi Final Wins : Xcalibur, WCRCh Fuller Spirit

 

Not Exceeding 22lbs

1st Kim Saxby ‘ GUYE’S GWYNDER’ – Dancing By Moonlight

(Sunset in Gwithian Sandspring x Townshend Dalwhinnie)

2nd Angela Parker ‘ WCRCh Diamonds Sapphire Star’ – Sunlay’s Star of Sapphires

(Just Dandy x Sunlay Queen of Diamonds)

3rd Bob & Jane Ward ‘ Delter Queen of Hearts’ – Waltzing With Moonbeams

(Sunset in Gwithian Sandspring x Townshend Dalwhinnie)

4th Rebecca Toller ‘ Just Wonderful’ – Benhall Black Beauty

(Just Dandy x Benhall Brandy Butter)

 

Heats: WCRCh Diamonds Sapphire Star, Delter Showing Red, no Secret, Blade of Fortune, Just Wonderful, Guye’s Gwynder

Qtrs: WCRCh Diamonds Sapphire Star, Wild Witch, Guye’s Gwynder, Just Wonderful

Semis: WCRCh Diamonds Sapphire Star, Delter Queen of Hearts

 

Not Exceeding 24lbs

1st Angela Parker ‘ WCRCH DIAMONDS RUBY WILLOW’ – Sunlay’s Ruby Willow

(Just Dandy x Sunlay’s Queen of Diamonds)

2nd S. Toller ‘ Mr Millychip’ – Mister Millychip

(Goodad Trying Again x Karyon Songbird)

3rd Steve & June Jonigk ‘ Whiphaven Mighty Mouse’ – Whiphaven Mighty Mouse

(My Right Hand Man x Pearlway Little Dynamite of Whiphaven)

4th John & Monica Bishop ‘ A Few Bob Back’ – Whiphaven Son of Wilf

(My Right Hand Man x Pearlway Little Dynamite of Whiphaven)

Heats: Sambuca, A Few Bob Back, Parkstone Flash Back, Eye’s Dandy, Sabrina, Mr Millychip.

Qtrs: Squizzle, A Few Bob Back, Mr.Millychip, Whiphaven Mighty Mouse.

Semis: WCRCh Diamonds Ruby Willow, Whiphaven Mighty Mouse.

 

Not Exceeding 26lbs

1st Jean Goode ‘ SHINY ’ – Goodad Lady at Leisure

(Just Dandy x Little Twister)

2nd Bob Hill ‘ Black Jack’ – Blenheim Bob

(Maidonian Blue x Kingswood Black Magic)

3rd S. Fearon & C. Rowe ‘ Chinese Dentist’ – SoWonderful

(Goodad Trying Again x Karyon Songbird)

4th P. Spikes ‘ Running Spikes’ – Savernake Goldfinch

(Sunlay’s Blaze of Glory x Savernake Storm Alert)

Heats: Devil In Me, Running Spikes, Black Jack, Gypsy

Semis: Shiny, Running Spikes

 

Well Done to ‘Shiny’ for recording the joint fastest time of 15.09 in her semi-final.

 

Not Exceeding 28lbs

1st F. Bale ‘ WCRCH STARSTRUCK’ – Goodad Lyrical Lad

(Just Dandy x Little Twister)

2nd Robin Sweet ‘ Georgie Girl’ – Cheeky Madam

(Pippawood Gatekeeper x Amber Madam)

3rd J & B Broderick ‘ Elgar ’ – Wings of Apollo

(Shades of Grey x Goodad Tiller Girl)

4th Sue Ward ‘ Black Gem Venture’ – Sunlay’s Black Gem of Venture

(Just Dandy x Sunlay’s Queen of Diamonds)

Heats: Georgie Girl, Starstruck, Black Gem Venture, Double Time

Semis : Black Gem Venture, Starstruck.

 

Congratulations to ‘Starstruck’ on becoming a Whippet Club Racing Champion and for recording the joint fastest time in his semi-final of 15.09 seconds.

 

Not Exceeding 30lbs

1st R & L Brion ‘ WCRCH FINE & DANDY’ – Goodad Basic Instinct

(Just Dandy x Little Twister)

2nd R. Sweet ‘ Danny Boy’ – Amber Nectar

(Pippawood Gatekeeper x Amber Madam)

3rd M & M Ginter ‘ Cold As Ice’ – Dusk To Dawn

(Sunlay’s Midnight Express x Midnight Magic)

4th T. Taylor ‘ Virtuoso ’ – Goodad Virtuoso

(Just Dandy x Little Twister)

Heats : WCRCh Fine & Dandy, Cold As Ice, Danny Boy, Jar Jar Binks

Semis : WCRCh Fine & Dandy, Cold As Ice

 

Not Exceeding 32lbs

1st A & S Eaton ‘ JASPER JCB’ – Mythyar Whiter Shade of Pale

(Pearlway Blackbird x Mythyar Child of Chance)

2nd C O’Flaherty ‘ Celtic Chase’ – Silver Light of Helios

(Shades of Grey x Goodad Tiller Girl)

3rd J Greenwood ‘ Photo Finish’ – Photo Finish

(Wandering Duke x Star of County Down)

4th M & M Ginter ‘ WCRCh Fat Boy Slim’ – May The Son Shine Today (Non-Runner)

(Captain Scarlett x Diana Tecca)

Heats : Celtic Chase, Jasper JCB, Photo Finish

Semis : Celtic Chase, Jasper JCB

 

[Martin Tucker]

Thanks for that Nigel. I had forgotten the dogs had these `grand` pedigree names as well. Just would like to know, were JUST DANDY and SAXON BLADE good race dogs and which racing lines do they stem from ? Sooner you get this racing data-base set up for me Nigel, the better !!

 

[Mark Roberts]

Hi Martin,

Saxon Blade (racing name WCRCh Hammeron) (WCRCh Striker x Brummie Bertha)

WCRCh Just Dandy (WCRCh Falshbang Wallop x Dianna Tecca)

both very good dogs and have sired many Ch's between them.

 

[Martin Tucker]

Thanks Mark. Would JUST DANDY be considered the leading stud dog ? What weight was he and does he come from an extended racing pedigree ? Do any of todays racers stem from the great racers of the late `70`s and early `80`s, ie PICKETTY WITCH, SILVER STREAM, SAUCY SYLPH, JIMMY RIMMER, TIPPER and a host of other great champions of my era.

Come on all you `anoraks` out there !1

 

[Mark Roberts]

Hi Martin, Just Dandys been the top stud dog for about 4 years now and due to the number & quality of pups he's got running I can see him staying there for at least another 5 as no other dog has/is being used as much as him.

Just Dandy

Sires side ~ WCRCh Flashbangwallop, WCRCh Cousin Jack x Leading Lady Cousin Jack being out ofWCRCh Jolly x WCRCh Nippy Girl, Leading Lady being out of Striker

Dams Side ~ Dianna Tecca is out of WCRCh Just Harliquin x Fed Ch Indian Bolt, Just Harliquine is out of WCRCh Jolly x WCRCh On A promise and WCRCh Latchlifter x WCRCh Indiana Rebound,

hope that helps.

Come on Judy help out.

 

[Judy]

The WCRA give out a trophy for top stud dog each year. Just Dandy did get it last year, the year before it was Flash Bang Wallop and the two years before that it was Time Flies.

Now here's a real anorak for you - I had a look at all the finalists in the first 2 champs programmes for this year and came up with 20 different sires from 55 dogs. I didn't count the veterans for obvious reasons.

Just Dandy had 12 finalists

Time Keeper - 6

Hammeron, Elovado & Guyes Gwithian - 4

Mr Wonderful, Red Devil, Catch The Wind and Celtic Flite - 3

Xcess, Cost A Bob & Wonder Why - 2

Ballistic Bunny, The Real McCoy, Jedi Knight, Tusken Raider, Blackbird, Poldarks Fyre, Cap'n Poldark & Not So good - 1

Anyway, whilst there will always be "stud dogs of the day" I think it shows that there is quite a diversity of dogs being used. Of course, not too much should be read into the figures as no account is made for numbers of puppies sired or racing or their ages. Some of the sires have died and some are now old with very few puppies still running. What we need is an equivalent of the Average Earnings Index used for race horses

Martin - although there don't seem to be that many lines of descent - Picketty Witch is still behind dogs racing today. Elovado is a descendent that should keep the line going. Also Agile Eclipse has just had a litter of puppies. Joyce Keables dogs all go back to her mother Abbotts Anny Pride.

I can't find Tipper behind anything running now but wasn't there some controversy involving him or his litter mates ?

Jimmy Rimmer has pretty much disappeared too.

Silver Stream and Saucy Sylph both appear in a lot of "racing" pedigrees and have quite a few lines of descent so are unlikely to disappear as racing ancestors now.

 

[Judy]

Bet thats stunned you :wacko:

 

[Martin Tucker]

Thanks for that Judy.

I remember just before we moved the `infamous` BESAPS descended upon the pedigree scene and destroyed the good will that was out there. I remember the 16lb bitch DANAWAY DOORMOUSE could have beaten 30lb dogs off scratch !! Then all of a sudden a lot of dogs were being tarred with the same brush, including the great RCh. TIPPER and his litter brother BROWN JACK. PETER SPOKES formed a new organisation for dogs that were all in all probablity, wrongly under suspision and I don`t mean the BESAPS. We left England before it was `sorted`. The BESAPS were rumoured to be out of the great X-bred RCh. GOOD AS GOLD and I seem to recall a big punch up at some Open over the BESAPS. They appeared from no where to take the pedigree scence by storm. I think they were on paper, a son mated to his mother or something like that. I remember my good friend Trish Billingham having one of the few dogs, in the shape of the brilliant RCh SILVER STREAM to have a dog that could give them a race. Would be interested to know what was the outcome of this unsavoury incident ?

Here`s a trivia for you anoraks. What did Mr.Lytham claim that BESAP stood for in his ads selling the pups ?

 

[Scott Frodsham]

Now here's a real anorak for you    - I had a look at all the finalists in the first 2 champs programmes for this year and came up with 20 different sires from 55 dogs. I didn't count the veterans for obvious reasons.
Just Dandy had 12 finalists

Time Keeper - 6

Hammeron, Elovado & Guyes Gwithian - 4

Mr Wonderful, Red Devil, Catch The Wind and Celtic Flite - 3

Xcess, Cost A Bob & Wonder Why - 2

Ballistic Bunny, The Real McCoy, Jedi Knight, Tusken Raider, Blackbird, Poldarks Fyre, Cap'n Poldark & Not So good - 1

20 ? What about WRCh Sunshine (Wandering Duke) ? :b

Photo Finish made a Champs final!

 

[Strike Whippets]

[SIZE=14pt]B[/SIZE]EAUTY

[SIZE=14pt]E[/SIZE]LEGANCE

[SIZE=14pt]S[/SIZE]PEED

[SIZE=14pt]A[/SIZE]ND

[SIZE=14pt]P[/SIZE]OWER

I think thats right (w00t)

 

[Scott Frodsham]

[SIZE=14pt]B[/SIZE]EAUTY[SIZE=14pt]E[/SIZE]LEGANCE

[SIZE=14pt]S[/SIZE]PEED

[SIZE=14pt]A[/SIZE]ND

[SIZE=14pt]P[/SIZE]OWER

I think thats right  (w00t)

Stop it Hannah you're making me blush! :huggles:

 

[Strike Whippets]

Now how did you know i was talking about you ? lol :*

 

[Judy]

20 ? What about WRCh Sunshine (Wandering Duke) ?  :b
Photo Finish made a Champs final!

Sorry Scott. I knew I had to make at least one mistake

 

[jade scott]

Hi it's Peter Scott on line, not Jade, There was a lot of trouble over the Tipper Brown Jack litter, as it seems there was one more than first thought, Brown Jack was thought to have been brought in from another litter. No DNA was taken but Brown Jack and tipper were banned from breeding WCRA registarded pups.

However my dog Flying Scott mated Pickwick and Nordine which were litter sisters to Tipper and brown jack and they were allowed to run ?. Sams Mirage which was out of Tipper and our liza was a great little 20 lb dog who was also banned from breeding.

The first time the Besaps arrived on the scene was at Tamworth open when Besaps Ajax beat tipper by over six yards tipper was unbeaten at his weight group over seven chapionships at this time, to say it caused a shock wave was an understatement.

Quarrymans Adonis and Quarrymans calipso I think they were registerd under, funny nothing else came from this line. I was attending BWRA opens at the same time and when I first saw the Besaps I said they were out of Good As Gold not only because of the speed but the shape and colours of the litter, Also the owner of ajax had a stud dog advertised in the Whippet news out of Good as gold.

DNA if im correct proved GOOD AS GOLD was the sire of the besap litter and were banned, most ended up in America where they started a second round of trouble regarding breeding lines.

By the way my dog Flying Scott was top stud I think in 1983-4 with around 400 plus points, I think Red Devil goes back to his line ? still theres a story from a big anorack.

 

[Martin Tucker]

FLYING SCOTT now there`s a name from the past, you had another pretty decent dog at the same time, THE SCOTSMAN ?

VIC GRAINGER the artist owned OUR LISA didn`t he ? He used to have this great big colour chart showing the Top Ten.

The memories are now starting to flood back. TIPPER used to run in blinkers and I think won 8 championship titles in a row. I remember KEN SHREWSBURY took them off him at one meeting and he fought like a tiger !!

There were some great dogs around when I raced and some great characters. The first `greats` I remember were BEETLE, VELVET, PICKETTY WITCH, and then onto TEDDY FLASH, JIMMY RIMMER, SAUCY SYLPH, SILVER STREAM and before we left YOUNG PATCHES and PIPPA (me and ANDREW BROOKS always used to tease DAPHNE KITCHEN about BESAP PIPPA !!)

The Whippet Racing was instrumental in me getting involved in the Greyhounds when we moved over here and I have been fortunate to be able to make a living from it. In a few weeks time I will tell you about the Greyhound farm we have been developing over the last two years and it will be opening shortly.

I hope to get a whippet again some time (hope your sister is reading this Jaquie !). I have a pet one here who is 12, only for his age I would have gone to Lifford for that race.

As for you `anoraks` out there, your correct about what BESAP stands for, but I`m sure there are a lot of people out there that think it stands for........ bad memories !!

 

[tlewis]

Hi it's Peter Scott on line,DNA if im correct proved GOOD AS GOLD was the sire of the besap litter and were banned, most ended up in America where they started a second round of trouble regarding breeding lines.

Hi Peter,

I was interested in your observation that G as G had been confirmed by DNA testing to be behind the Besaps dogs. My interest is because I have several dogs that have Besaps four or five generations back in their pedigrees.

As far as I'm aware the discovery and certainly the technoligy of applying the principles of DNA testing were not perfected until the late 1980's and the practical application was not used by the greyhound Industry in the shape of The National Greyhound Association in the USA until 1991. How then is it possible that G as G was declared behind the Besaps dogs by the use of DNA?

There are very few Whippets racing successfully in the USA that don't have one of the three Besaps dogs imported into Canada (not the USA) in their pedigrees and as I'm not aware of the "round of trouble" to which you allude I am left wondering what I missed! I think they were imported into Canada in about 1981 so even when they do appear they are several generations back. Should we be concerned about something that happened over twenty years ago?

I understand your WCRA won't passport any dog that has Besaps, no matter how far back which effecively stops any dogs coming to the UK for racing purposes. There are a few exceptions and I happen to own a few of them! Do you know what other dogs in US pedigrees would be likely to not be allowed by the WCRA?

They are all of course eligable for KC registration. How does the WCRA make their decisions? In a public forum or behind closed doors?

I'm intrigued to know what happens if a dog with Besaps comes to the UK and has a successful show carreer.

Not so far fetched as it sounds as quite a few very nice show dogs have a Besaps dog in their pedigrees.

It would be rather odd, don't you think, if there was a show champion that was excluded by the WCRA? Has that happened before?

Sorry about all the questions but it's difficult to understand the problem from this side of the pond. :b

The picture is of a dog with Besaps several generations back and is a Championship show breed winner. There are others with a Champoin title.

 

[Martin Tucker]

Come to think of it Peter, was your other dog ARTIC SCOTT ? I`m glad I mentioned the BESAPS as a lot of more recent members might not know much about their origins.

 

[BeeJay]

Actually Tony I am wondering if this applies not just to the offspring Besap's dogs but other offspring of legitimately registered pedigree whippets.

For example what about decendants of Andy Thor (known non-KC registered whippet) who was exported to France. My understanding is that once there he was assessed by whippet experts and was deemed to be a whippet and his name changed to J'Andy Thor when he was registered in France as a pedigree whippet. (If I've got this wrong I'm sure that someone (Malin or Jean Marc?) will correct me.)

Andy Thor appears in the 5th line of the great Multi Ch Taraly Malcom X's pedigree.

I know that a very well known show breeder from the UK is going to assess him in person this year with a view to breeding from him. (She likes what she has seen in photo's she just wants to meet him and also see him moving :thumbsup: ). So it's very likely that he is going to feature in the pedigrees of UK show whippets.

Would the WCRA then be refusing passports to his progeny? This could affect people on this list directly for instance Malin mated him to a bitch that Terry Smith bred. Would any of those pups or progeny from them be able to get passports? As we all know they are lovely looking dogs and I don't find it unthinkable that someone will wanted to import into the UK one of them or one of their pups.

I'm wondering if any of the European dogs that have competed in the UK show ring and won would be deemed to be unsuitable for granting a racing passport to.

Would Dessie's JW pups and their offspring? There is already one of them racing at club level. What if his owners had decided to apply for a passport?

I am not saying that these aren't pedigree whippets they are all in fact legitimately KC registered whippets, please don't anyone on here think that I am being rude about their dogs I'm not. But with the WCRA apparently making decisions as to whether a whippet is from the 'right' breeding it is working to a different set of rules to the Kennel Club AND presumably The Whippet Club to which it is affiliated.

The situation stands that a pedigree whippet can be shown and win BIS at The Whippet Club champ show but not raced at an open based on the facts that The Whippet Club finds it is pedigree acceptable and the WCRA says that it isn't?

Aside from the integration of bloodlines. We have European whippets coming to the UK to compete in the show ring. Surely at some point European whippets racing people are going to want to try their dogs against ours. What's going to happen then?

 

[Nigel]

So it's very likely that he is going to feature in the pedigrees of UK show whippets.
Would the WCRA then be refusing passports to his progeny? 

I thought one of the aims of establishing the WCRA was to ensure there wasn't a split between racing and showing whippets. If the WCRA refused to passport the progeny it would make a nonsense of their stated aims :'(

 

[Terry & Sheila Smith]

for instance Malin mated him to a bitch that Terry Smith bred.  Would any of those pups or progeny from them be able to get passports?

Don't wish to be pedantic but she was bred by Terry AND Sheila Smith. I'm the inspiration Sheila's the persperation.

The WCRA seems able to make it's own rules & impose it's own exclusions without regard to what's happening in the wider whippet world. Always has! I often wonder whether Dave Lytham would have been considered dodgy if he had been a southerner & lived miles from Good as Golds stamping ground.

Terry Smith