What Drives A Breed

[dolly]

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Although i always believe it a wonderfull acheivement to win a cc under an all-rounder, it is so much more special to win under a breed specialist, who have dedicated their life to the breed. Usually their knowledge is way beyond what you can imagine. They live with them everyday, they know their quirks, type, movement, etc etc.

To win or just get a card under a respected breed specialist, the best anytime

 

[anniewhippet]

Although i always believe it a wonderfull acheivement to win a cc under an all-rounder, it is so much more special to win under a breed specialist, who have dedicated their life to the breed.  Usually their knowledge is way beyond what you can imagine.  They live with them everyday, they know their quirks, type, movement, etc etc.
To win or just get a card under a respected breed specialist, the best anytime

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Totally agree, as previously stated in my earlier post.

I do think that the earlier post stating that breed specialists put up friends, dogs on a roll, the doyens of the breed etc etc is a real 'downer' on those judges. Of course people know each other, converse, have a giggle etc but this is our hobby.

Do you honestly think all rounders are so different? At the end of the day a good judge will put up the best dogs on the day. I would rather they assessed my dogs with all the knowledge behind them than some who just want to clock up a variety of breeds.

We do have some knowledgeable all rounders who judge our breed very well but surely you would prefer to get your hard fought for cards from someone dedicated to the breed?

 

[bertha]

Although i always believe it a wonderfull acheivement to win a cc under an all-rounder, it is so much more special to win under a breed specialist, who have dedicated their life to the breed.  Usually their knowledge is way beyond what you can imagine.  They live with them everyday, they know their quirks, type, movement, etc etc.
To win or just get a card under a respected breed specialist, the best anytime

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Totally agree, as previously stated in my earlier post.

I do think that the earlier post stating that breed specialists put up friends, dogs on a roll, the doyens of the breed etc etc is a real 'downer' on those judges. Of course people know each other, converse, have a giggle etc but this is our hobby.

Do you honestly think all rounders are so different? At the end of the day a good judge will put up the best dogs on the day. I would rather they assessed my dogs with all the knowledge behind them than some who just want to clock up a variety of breeds.

We do have some knowledgeable all rounders who judge our breed very well but surely you would prefer to get your hard fought for cards from someone dedicated to the breed?

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I totally agree with you Annie, my personal choice would be to win under a breed specialist, after all, they should know the breed, may be their preference will differ from some of us, but they should know a sound whippet, a well constructed whippet, a whippet that moves true.

It is very interesting how people are answering to this thread.

:cheers:

 

[UKUSA]

So what dogs does everyone think have driven or changed the breed ( I think Annie has already asked this question, haven't you?) In recent years in this country Nutshell, Fergal and Dutch have got to be up there in that department as I wasn't in this country for 13 years prior to Nutshell I'm sure some of you can point to dogs before those three who you feel made a major contribution to the breed here. I used to have the dog papers sent to me in the U.S so of course read about the dogs in this country but its not the same as being here and seeing them in the flesh. It would be interesting to here what dogs overseas our friends think have made an impact or difference there.

Nicky

 

[T Hoare]

A dog that made an impact before Nutshell, Fergal & Dutch and probably one you think I would not 'go for' would be Nimrodel Wanderer. He (if my memory serves me correct) appears in a fair few pedigrees also.

Very slightly of topic - A bitch that I have seen pics of and think that looks like a bitch I wouldn't have minded owning is Sequence of Shalfleet. Going further back and by the pics I have seen a bitch that could possibly hold her own in the ring today would be Wingedfoot Claire De Lune.

 

[bertha]

There are lots of them Tracey, Dragonhill, Tweseldown, Poltesco, Shalfleet as you mentioned, Always, Dondelayo, Harque, Hardnott, the list is endless. Allgarth, Baydale, Garnstones.

One dog I liked was Beseeka Knight Errant at Silkstone, he was a dog with presence, N Wanderer was a very nice dog too, too many to mention, we are going back to the past, makes you wonder why!!!!!!!!! :- "

 

[T Hoare]

There are lots of them Tracey, Dragonhill, Tweseldown, Poltesco, Shalfleet as you mentioned, Always, Dondelayo, Harque, Hardnott, the list is endless. Allgarth, Baydale, Garnstones.
One dog I liked was Beseeka Knight Errant at Silkstone, he was a dog with presence, N Wanderer was a very nice dog too, too many to mention, we are going back to the past, makes you wonder why!!!!!!!!! :- "

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I went to the past as Nicky commented on dogs before Nutshell, Fergal & Dutch.

There are of course 'good uns' since then.

 

[maggie217]

There are lots of them Tracey, Dragonhill, Tweseldown, Poltesco, Shalfleet as you mentioned, Always, Dondelayo, Harque, Hardnott, the list is endless. Allgarth, Baydale, Garnstones.
One dog I liked was Beseeka Knight Errant at Silkstone, he was a dog with presence, N Wanderer was a very nice dog too, too many to mention, we are going back to the past, makes you wonder why!!!!!!!!! :- "

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I went to the past as Nicky commented on dogs before Nutshell, Fergal & Dutch.

There are of course 'good uns' since then.

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I guess that although there will have been many excellent examples of dogs and bitches the ones that make their 'mark' on the breed are the ones that are 'prepotent' in that they pass on their genes in such a way that they are said to 'stamp their stock'. (These terms are used in the horse world but I guess in the dog world too.) Such animals, not necessarily big winners themselves, make their mark on the breed where maybe dogs which are even better examples in themselves do not always pass on their qualities in the same way. Such prepotent animals amost invariably pass on a certain 'stamp' whatever they are mated to. I should think that a dog such as Hillsdown Fergal had this prepotency.

Others even though big winners may/may not make their mark in this way.

Pauline

 

[kris]

http://www.bernesemountaindog.com.au/foundations.htm

I found a llink to this article titled 'Seven Foundations to Successful Dog Breeding' when I was searching for something else, this happens regularly to me, I spend so much time reading things which are not pertinent to my research. :- "

I thought it well worth reading but as I do not have permission to copy can only post the link, however, I felt others might find it interesting and thought provoking.

Jenny

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having read that i think it should be pinned to every dog breeder/exhibitors wall to read every day! :thumbsup:

 

[larruu]

FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE I PREFER ALL ROUNDERS TO BREED SPECIALISTS.BREED SPECIALISTS IN MY HUMBLE OPINION INVARIABLY HAVE TOO MANY FRIENDS, AQUAINTANCES AND THE DOYENS TO APPEASE, ALL ROUNDERS LESS SO . I HAVE ALWAYS DONE BETTER UNDER ALL ROUNDERS AND OVERSEAS JUDGES. I HAVE, IT SHOULD BE SAID, ONLY BEEN IN THE BREED FOR FOUR YEARS.

DEVIATING SLIGHTLY - SEASPOT RUN I WOULD LIKE TO COMPLIMENT YOU ON YOUR EMINENTLY SENSIBLE AND ELOQUENT OPINIONS.NOT JUST ON THIS THREAD,BUT IN OTHERS WHERE YOU HAVE GIVEN YOUR VIEWS.

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So we should all judge a breed other than the one we show/own then.

Also we aren't allowed to speak to anyone at a show when we exhibit.

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TRACEY - I FIND YOUR REPLY INANE . IF YOU ARE GOING TO CONTINUE WITH

SILLY/SARKY RIPOSTES THEN I SUGGEST YOU CHANGE YOUR SIGNATURE .

THUMPER WOULD NOT APPROVE !!

REGARDS YOUR OTHER POST RE MY DOG OBTAINING HIS STUD BOOK NO. UNDER A BREED SPECIALIST, I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT JEAN LANNING

WOULD BE CONSIDERED AN ALL ROUNDER . I STAND TO BE CORRECTED BUT I DONT RECALL SEEING HER AS A JUDGE AT ANY BREED CLUB SHOW NOR HAVE

I NOTICED HER AS AN EXHIBITOR. I EXHIBITED UNDER THE LATE BOBBY JAMES

AND WHILST HE WAS A BREED SPECIALIST HE WAS ALSO AN ALL ROUNDER .

ALL ROUNDERS JUDGE AT GROUP AND BIS LEVEL AT CHAMP SHOWS A SINGLE

BREED SPECIALIST WOULD NOT.

 

[T Hoare]

FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE I PREFER ALL ROUNDERS TO BREED SPECIALISTS.BREED SPECIALISTS IN MY HUMBLE OPINION INVARIABLY HAVE TOO MANY FRIENDS, AQUAINTANCES AND THE DOYENS TO APPEASE, ALL ROUNDERS LESS SO . I HAVE ALWAYS DONE BETTER UNDER ALL ROUNDERS AND OVERSEAS JUDGES. I HAVE, IT SHOULD BE SAID, ONLY BEEN IN THE BREED FOR FOUR YEARS.

DEVIATING SLIGHTLY - SEASPOT RUN I WOULD LIKE TO COMPLIMENT YOU ON YOUR EMINENTLY SENSIBLE AND ELOQUENT OPINIONS.NOT JUST ON THIS THREAD,BUT IN OTHERS WHERE YOU HAVE GIVEN YOUR VIEWS.

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So we should all judge a breed other than the one we show/own then.

Also we aren't allowed to speak to anyone at a show when we exhibit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

TRACEY - I FIND YOUR REPLY INANE . IF YOU ARE GOING TO CONTINUE WITH

SILLY/SARKY RIPOSTES THEN I SUGGEST YOU CHANGE YOUR SIGNATURE .

THUMPER WOULD NOT APPROVE !!

REGARDS YOUR OTHER POST RE MY DOG OBTAINING HIS STUD BOOK NO. UNDER A BREED SPECIALIST, I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT JEAN LANNING

WOULD BE CONSIDERED AN ALL ROUNDER . I STAND TO BE CORRECTED BUT I DONT RECALL SEEING HER AS A JUDGE AT ANY BREED CLUB SHOW NOR HAVE

I NOTICED HER AS AN EXHIBITOR. I EXHIBITED UNDER THE LATE BOBBY JAMES

AND WHILST HE WAS A BREED SPECIALIST HE WAS ALSO AN ALL ROUNDER .

ALL ROUNDERS JUDGE AT GROUP AND BIS LEVEL AT CHAMP SHOWS A SINGLE

BREED SPECIALIST WOULD NOT.

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I had the right year and month, just a different show(not bad without looking it up) sorry for that error.

This doesn't make somebody a specialist.

 

[patsy]

FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE I PREFER ALL ROUNDERS TO BREED SPECIALISTS.BREED SPECIALISTS IN MY HUMBLE OPINION INVARIABLY HAVE TOO MANY FRIENDS, AQUAINTANCES AND THE DOYENS TO APPEASE, ALL ROUNDERS LESS SO . I HAVE ALWAYS DONE BETTER UNDER ALL ROUNDERS AND OVERSEAS JUDGES. I HAVE, IT SHOULD BE SAID, ONLY BEEN IN THE BREED FOR FOUR YEARS.

DEVIATING SLIGHTLY - SEASPOT RUN I WOULD LIKE TO COMPLIMENT YOU ON YOUR EMINENTLY SENSIBLE AND ELOQUENT OPINIONS.NOT JUST ON THIS THREAD,BUT IN OTHERS WHERE YOU HAVE GIVEN YOUR VIEWS.

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​

So we should all judge a breed other than the one we show/own then.

Also we aren't allowed to speak to anyone at a show when we exhibit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

TRACEY - I FIND YOUR REPLY INANE . IF YOU ARE GOING TO CONTINUE WITH

SILLY/SARKY RIPOSTES THEN I SUGGEST YOU CHANGE YOUR SIGNATURE .

THUMPER WOULD NOT APPROVE !!

REGARDS YOUR OTHER POST RE MY DOG OBTAINING HIS STUD BOOK NO. UNDER A BREED SPECIALIST, I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT JEAN LANNING

WOULD BE CONSIDERED AN ALL ROUNDER . I STAND TO BE CORRECTED BUT I DONT RECALL SEEING HER AS A JUDGE AT ANY BREED CLUB SHOW NOR HAVE

I NOTICED HER AS AN EXHIBITOR. I EXHIBITED UNDER THE LATE BOBBY JAMES

AND WHILST HE WAS A BREED SPECIALIST HE WAS ALSO AN ALL ROUNDER .

ALL ROUNDERS JUDGE AT GROUP AND BIS LEVEL AT CHAMP SHOWS A SINGLE

BREED SPECIALIST WOULD NOT.

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Whippets are one of the best breeds for welcoming new comers, and their good dogs have not been overlooked. Over the years we can be proud of our judges, proud of the many lovely whippets produced by many kennels, long may it continue. I have nothing else to say.

Bobby James was a Whippet man through and through, I for one really miss Bobby, if you showed under him you have been in the breed a lot longer than four years.

 

[UKUSA]

A dog that made an impact before Nutshell, Fergal & Dutch and probably one you think I would not 'go for' would be Nimrodel Wanderer. He (if my memory serves me correct) appears in a fair few pedigrees also. Very slightly of topic - A bitch that I have seen pics of and think that looks like a bitch I wouldn't have minded owning is Sequence of Shalfleet. Going further back and by the pics I have seen a bitch that could possibly hold her own in the ring today would be Wingedfoot Claire De Lune.

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I'm with you Tracey, I only saw photos of those two bitches and would have loved to have seen them in the flesh and of course you would have to put Ch Nimrodel Wanderer in the Hall Of Fame (maybe we should start a Hall of Fame, very rock n roll) him I did see. Actually what dogs would you all put into the Hall Of Fame and why?

Tracey I for one do not find your remarks inane and am enjoying your contribution to this thread, we can, all us , make mistakes, time plays tricks with the memory but it is nt a hanging offence! I thought that Jean Lanning had done a breed club show at some point but then maybe my memory is playing tricks with me, would nt be the first time!

Nicky

 

[quintessence]

One dog who I think had a definite influence on the breed was Bartonia of Brough. He was by Ch Iniskelltr Lovely Silver out of a lovely little bitch called Mystery of Test. His influence is well outlined in Phil Moran Healy's book 'The Whippet'.

I was only a little girl when Mystery was being shown but I remember watching her and thinking she was an ideal whippet bitch. What a legacy she has. :thumbsup: and more scarily how it just seems like yesterday.

Jenny

 

[neave]

Just out of interest does anyone think that Walkabout Whippets had an influence of some sort on Whippets ave always been a bit of an admire of Shelagh Thompson although i am too young to remember the likes of Ch Walkabout Warrior King (although my dad used him on one of his bitches), Ch Walkabout Whirlpool of Baxendale, American Ch Walkabout Wing and a Prayer and i dont know if anyone has any Walkabouts on their peds? My dads line with Walkabout was sadly broken when we lost a litter of 10 puppies and Ch Walkabouts Warrior King daughter our bitch Jess all died

 

[larruu]

FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE I PREFER ALL ROUNDERS TO BREED SPECIALISTS.BREED SPECIALISTS IN MY HUMBLE OPINION INVARIABLY HAVE TOO MANY FRIENDS, AQUAINTANCES AND THE DOYENS TO APPEASE, ALL ROUNDERS LESS SO . I HAVE ALWAYS DONE BETTER UNDER ALL ROUNDERS AND OVERSEAS JUDGES. I HAVE, IT SHOULD BE SAID, ONLY BEEN IN THE BREED FOR FOUR YEARS.

DEVIATING SLIGHTLY - SEASPOT RUN I WOULD LIKE TO COMPLIMENT YOU ON YOUR EMINENTLY SENSIBLE AND ELOQUENT OPINIONS.NOT JUST ON THIS THREAD,BUT IN OTHERS WHERE YOU HAVE GIVEN YOUR VIEWS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

So we should all judge a breed other than the one we show/own then.

Also we aren't allowed to speak to anyone at a show when we exhibit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

TRACEY - I FIND YOUR REPLY INANE . IF YOU ARE GOING TO CONTINUE WITH

SILLY/SARKY RIPOSTES THEN I SUGGEST YOU CHANGE YOUR SIGNATURE .

THUMPER WOULD NOT APPROVE !!

REGARDS YOUR OTHER POST RE MY DOG OBTAINING HIS STUD BOOK NO. UNDER A BREED SPECIALIST, I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT JEAN LANNING

WOULD BE CONSIDERED AN ALL ROUNDER . I STAND TO BE CORRECTED BUT I DONT RECALL SEEING HER AS A JUDGE AT ANY BREED CLUB SHOW NOR HAVE

I NOTICED HER AS AN EXHIBITOR. I EXHIBITED UNDER THE LATE BOBBY JAMES

AND WHILST HE WAS A BREED SPECIALIST HE WAS ALSO AN ALL ROUNDER .

ALL ROUNDERS JUDGE AT GROUP AND BIS LEVEL AT CHAMP SHOWS A SINGLE

BREED SPECIALIST WOULD NOT.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Whippets are one of the best breeds for welcoming new comers, and their good dogs have not been overlooked. Over the years we can be proud of our judges, proud of the many lovely whippets produced by many kennels, long may it continue. I have nothing else to say.

Bobby James was a Whippet man through and through, I for one really miss Bobby, if you showed under him you have been in the breed a lot longer than four years.

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LONDON & HOME COUNTIES TERRIER CLUB SHOW, PICKETTS LOCK, EDMONTON

CIRCA MARCH 1977 NOT A WHIPPET IN SIGHT. HE SAID TO ME AFTER JUDGING

THAT HE HAD NOTICED ME AND MY CANINE CHARGE WALKING ALONG THE PLATFORM AT PADDINGTON ENROUTE TO THE SHOW . HE TOOK THE TIME TO TALK TO A NOVICE NOBODY AND GAVE OUT A AURA OF KINDLINESS AND

UNOBTRUSIVE EXPERTISE THAT I HAVE NEVER FORGOTTEN , I'M SURE IF YOU

KNEW HIM TO ANY DEGREE HE WOULD HAVE BEEN A FONT OF WISDOM AND SOMEONE WHO WOULD BE GREATLY MISSED.

 

[anniewhippet]

Quickly reading through this thread am I right in concluding that the majority of people feel that they would rather 'win' under a breed specialist?

And therefore possibily it is the 'great' dogs used by the discerning & knowledgeable breeders that drive the breed forward?

And I think a 'Hall of Fame' thread & the reasons why seems a very good idea as with the correct input everyone can learn why its felt they contributed to the breed

 

[dessie]

Just out of interest does anyone think that Walkabout Whippets had an influence of some sort on Whippets ave always been a bit of an admire of Shelagh Thompson although i am too young to remember the likes of Ch Walkabout Warrior King (although my dad used him on one of his bitches), Ch Walkabout Whirlpool of Baxendale, American Ch Walkabout Wing and a Prayer and i dont know if anyone has any Walkabouts on their peds? My dads line with Walkabout was sadly broken when we lost a litter of 10 puppies and Ch Walkabouts Warrior King daughter our bitch Jess all died :( 

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How sad

 

[UKUSA]

Quickly reading through this thread am I right in concluding that the majority of people feel that they would rather 'win' under a breed specialist?And therefore possibily it is the 'great' dogs used by the discerning & knowledgeable breeders that drive the breed forward?

And I think a 'Hall of Fame' thread & the reasons why seems a very good idea as with the correct input everyone can learn why its felt they contributed to the breed

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I think that it would be great fun to start a Hall Of Fame so maybe we should get our thinking caps on and come up with categories, after all football has taken over the telly at the moment and with two males in my house I dont have a chance!! Before we get into that though one dog of recent times I feel I must mention is Ch Khabaray Single Malt of Dumbriton. 32 or 33 C.Cs all under different judges, sire of amongst others the beautiful Ch Bayard Islamist of Dumbriton and he is ofcourse grandfather of top winning bitch Ch Courthill Cast A Shadow.

Nicky

 

[irenegoodnight]

http://www.bernesemountaindog.com.au/foundations.htm

I found a llink to this article titled 'Seven Foundations to Successful Dog Breeding' when I was searching for something else, this happens regularly to me, I spend so much time reading things which are not pertinent to my research. :- "

I thought it well worth reading but as I do not have permission to copy can only post the link, however, I felt others might find it interesting and thought provoking.

Jenny

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having read that i think it should be pinned to every dog breeder/exhibitors wall to read every day! :thumbsup:

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Couldn't agree more, I thoroughly enjoyed the read.