What Would You Do ?

[kim & Tilly]

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i have this problem at the moment...but with kittens

I bought two kittens and i was given a letter which said if 'for any reason' it doesnt work out bring them back to me as soon as possible..

They were 8 weeks old when i got them, with in the week it was clear that the dogs were not going to except them,we had a near miss where the dogs nearly killed one, i arranged to return the kittens within the week....

But she has said to a friend she wont refund me the money paid for them...

Now i could have sold them on to a good home, but i returned them to the breeder as requested, so i expect to have most if not all the money back...even if it is after she has rehomed them...

 

[saraquele]

i have this problem at the moment...but with kittens
I bought two kittens and i was given a letter which said if 'for any reason' it doesnt work out bring them back to me as soon as possible..

They were 8 weeks old when i got them, with in the week it was clear that the dogs were not going to except them,we had a near miss where the dogs nearly killed one, i arranged to return the kittens within the week....

But she has said to a friend she wont refund me the money paid for them...

Now i could have sold them on to a good home, but i returned them to the breeder as requested, so i expect to have most if not all the money back...even if it is after she has rehomed them...

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i think that is so wrong , your encouraged to go back to the breeder if you have problems , then you end up getting ripped off by them :thumbsup:

 

[jok]

but what if you have paid out a large sum of money...
i paid £375 for tilly and £400 for bean...

what if it didnt work out between tilly and bean, why should i lose out £400 through no fault of my own. I would expect the next owner to pay as much as i did, or just a little less.

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Very mercenary!!!

Any breeder worth their salt should take a dog back and mine all go with a contract to say they MUST be returned to me. There is no hard and fast rule about refunds and each person must make their own mind up as to that. Also you would have to take into account the age/condition (both mental and physical) of the dog that is being returned, plus the reason.

Unfortunately, the older puppies get and lose their ahhhhhhhhhh value, they also lose their monetary value. So they certainly cannot be re-homed for their full 8 week old market value, not that I would want to sell a dog 'again' for full price anyway but, conversely, neither would I give a dog away. If people cannot afford to pay for a dog, they cannot afford its upkeep IMO.

People who do not breed seem to think that those who do make vast profits from selling puppies ..................... if only!! If I can cover my costs for producing that litter plus keep all my other dogs for a month or so, if everything went swimmily with the litter, I would consider myself very lucky!!

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I agree with this post completely. Personally, mine ( first litter I have bred) all went on a contract saying they MUST come back to me on a sliding scale of refund, depending on age. I am committed to the litter for their entire lifetime. Obviously, if the dog was going to a much loved other member of the family, that would be fine, providing we had the same written agreement. I agree that to some people the word FREE is an incentive to just have the dog for that reason and usually somebody would expect to pay something for the dog. Obviously, the home is by far the most important consideration, especially if the first home hasn't worked out. Hopefully the pup will get a lovely new home and the current owner will think very carefully before taking on another pup. Just my opinion.

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I think the important thing about a contract is that it demonstrates some level of trust between the breeder and new owner. Any buyer worth their salt would not have a problem signing a contract. When i bought Frankie from Juley the fact that she wanted me to sign was an indication that she was a decent breeder who cared about the puppies.

However, i think that we'd find that 'contracts' are not really worth anything in the eyes of the law - they just demonstrate the intentions of both parties. Let's face it, the breeder would not sell to the new owner if they thought for one second that the contract would not be honoured. It's all about trust, i don't think you would have any argument in law if someone sold the dog on without permission.

If a dog is returned to the breeder, i think a fair system would be to return any money that is recouped if the dog is rehomed - less any costs incurred in the mean time. I think it would be completely unreasonable to expect to get £450 back for a 3 year old dog for example. If the dog was not suitable to be rehomed, due to illness or injury for example, then i don't think the breeder should return any money. However, i think it would be very poor for someone to return a dog for these reasons.

I bought my two to show. However, first and foremost they are family pets who are very spoilt and loved. If they never did a thing in the show ring they'd stay here for life anyway. If and when i decide to have a litter, i would expect the same for my puppies. I would think that for this sort of reason some breeders prefer to sell their puppies to pet homes despite any amount of show potential.

 

[JAX]

but what if you have paid out a large sum of money...
i paid £375 for tilly and £400 for bean...

what if it didnt work out between tilly and bean, why should i lose out £400 through no fault of my own. I would expect the next owner to pay as much as i did, or just a little less.

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Very mercenary!!!

Any breeder worth their salt should take a dog back and mine all go with a contract to say they MUST be returned to me. There is no hard and fast rule about refunds and each person must make their own mind up as to that. Also you would have to take into account the age/condition (both mental and physical) of the dog that is being returned, plus the reason.

Unfortunately, the older puppies get and lose their ahhhhhhhhhh value, they also lose their monetary value. So they certainly cannot be re-homed for their full 8 week old market value, not that I would want to sell a dog 'again' for full price anyway but, conversely, neither would I give a dog away. If people cannot afford to pay for a dog, they cannot afford its upkeep IMO.

People who do not breed seem to think that those who do make vast profits from selling puppies ..................... if only!! If I can cover my costs for producing that litter plus keep all my other dogs for a month or so, if everything went swimmily with the litter, I would consider myself very lucky!!

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I agree with this post completely. Personally, mine ( first litter I have bred) all went on a contract saying they MUST come back to me on a sliding scale of refund, depending on age. I am committed to the litter for their entire lifetime. Obviously, if the dog was going to a much loved other member of the family, that would be fine, providing we had the same written agreement. I agree that to some people the word FREE is an incentive to just have the dog for that reason and usually somebody would expect to pay something for the dog. Obviously, the home is by far the most important consideration, especially if the first home hasn't worked out. Hopefully the pup will get a lovely new home and the current owner will think very carefully before taking on another pup. Just my opinion.

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I think the important thing about a contract is that it demonstrates some level of trust between the breeder and new owner. Any buyer worth their salt would not have a problem signing a contract. When i bought Frankie from Juley the fact that she wanted me to sign was an indication that she was a decent breeder who cared about the puppies.

However, i think that we'd find that 'contracts' are not really worth anything in the eyes of the law - they just demonstrate the intentions of both parties. Let's face it, the breeder would not sell to the new owner if they thought for one second that the contract would not be honoured. It's all about trust, i don't think you would have any argument in law if someone sold the dog on without permission.

If a dog is returned to the breeder, i think a fair system would be to return any money that is recouped if the dog is rehomed - less any costs incurred in the mean time. I think it would be completely unreasonable to expect to get £450 back for a 3 year old dog for example. If the dog was not suitable to be rehomed, due to illness or injury for example, then i don't think the breeder should return any money. However, i think it would be very poor for someone to return a dog for these reasons.

I bought my two to show. However, first and foremost they are family pets who are very spoilt and loved. If they never did a thing in the show ring they'd stay here for life anyway. If and when i decide to have a litter, i would expect the same for my puppies. I would think that for this sort of reason some breeders prefer to sell their puppies to pet homes despite any amount of show potential.

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Pet homes 99% of the time for me , I think you can count on the fingers of one hand how many pups I have sold for showing

Richees case was a good one , went with 2 :b came back with one 4 weeks later , :rant: full refund , no hassle from me and now hes in a super pet home :huggles:

Many years ago I had a 9 year old back through marraige breakup , no money was offered and I rehomed him for free too . What ever is in the dogs best interest .

Contracts to return to breeder arnt worth the paper they are written on . I used to get mine to sign , but Caras owner passed her on when he emigrated :rant: and it was only a pure fluke that I managed to buy her back and now know where she is :sweating:

 

[sharron]

im sorry (again).

We got Zeb just over 18 months ago from JR.

he came from a family were the antie had bought Zeb as a present for the nephew. 2 years later the nephew went to uni. His parents did not want the dog so they got rid of him.

Yes he was lucky but I dont think alot of poeple think hard about what they are getting themselfs into.

When i first said about getting a dog we went though a list first a dogs basic needs and who would do this every day.

Second was what dog to get, we drew up a sort list. (must admit that a whippet was not on my sort list)

Each breed was thought about with their care ect. We did not go into it head long and thought carfully about each one. o (OH then said about a whip)

Yes i do admit that im not a puppy person, Yes they are cute and everything but at this time i know that a pup would not fit into my life. That is my we go a resuce. I would never if anything happend ask JR for my money back. I would of made my mind up to have that breed or age of dog and stuck with it. If it did not work out then it would be my that got it wrong and would not expect any money back.

Sorry if i upset anyone and feel free to slam my into the ground but this is how i feel. :- "

 

[doris]

[quote name=jok' date='Sep 3 2006, 08:14 PMPet homes 99% of the time for me , I think you can count on the fingers of one hand how many pups I have sold for showing

Richees case was a good one , went with 2 :b came back with one 4 weeks later , :rant: full refund , no hassle from me and now hes in a super pet home :huggles:

Many years ago I had a 9 year old back through marraige breakup , no money was offered and I rehomed him for free too . What ever is in the dogs best interest .

Contracts to return to breeder arnt worth the paper they are written on . I used to get mine to sign , but Caras owner passed her on when he emigrated :rant: and it was only a pure fluke that I managed to buy her back and now know where she is :sweating:

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ah, Richee! I thought he was a super dog! how is he? I know its not really to do with this thread, but seeing as you mentioned him :- "

let me know if you get any other super pups like him , cos I thought he was great and we might just have room for a ikkle boy like him now :thumbsup:

and I would sign whatever you want )

 

[wild whippies]

I think it's entirely up to the breeder whether they choose to repay you on return of a puppy.

I think it's unfair to make direct personal comments on the board of a member who isn't a regular visitor especially when they made the effort to defend an individual who had been slated for returning a pup. You really should of addressed this privately.

 

[saraquele]

I think it's entirely up to the breeder whether they choose to repay you on return of a puppy.I think it's unfair to make direct personal comments on the board of a member who isn't a regular visitor  especially when they made the effort to defend an individual who had been slated for returning a pup. You really should of addressed this privately.

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ive been trying too but ive been ignored for too long now :thumbsup:

ive not slated anybody :thumbsup:

just merely stating the facts.

 

[wild whippies]

I didn't say you had slated anyone. I thought the rules of K9 stated that your supposed to comment / criticise an idea not an individual? I'm sorry you and the breeder aren't being supportive of each other because in fairness they was supportive to you. I don't know them personally but seeing as you both were on good terms previously, I don't see why you couldn't still be remaining on amicable terms now?

I know the person concerned has previously gone through a 'dry spot' with regards to posting on K9 and when they did return they announced they'd had some big changes in their personal life, along with them being ill? It could be feasible that this is the case now and she really isn't trying to avoid you?

Regarding your PM, I'm not trying to judge anyone, although it's debatable whether Lydia is being put to judgment on this thread.

 

[wild whippies]

Saraquele, thanks for your PM, I'm sorry that you've been PM'ing and had no response when the member has been online. I do sincerely hope the both of you can resolve your issues but preferably in private.

( I chose to reply on the forum rather than via PM as I felt your attempts to contact should be noted along with the fact you've had no response) I don't want anyone to be seen in a bad light here and I sincerely wish the two of you can recoup your friendship rather than fall out on an open forum.

 

[saraquele]

Saraquele, thanks for your PM, I'm sorry that you've been PM'ing and had no response when the member has been online. I do sincerely hope the both of you can resolve your issues but preferably in private.
( I chose to reply on the forum rather than via PM as I felt your attempts to contact should be noted along with the fact you've had no response) I don't want anyone to be seen in a bad light here and I sincerely wish the two of you can recoup your friendship rather than fall out on an open forum.

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thank you :huggles:

 

[BeeJay]

Saraquele, thanks for your PM, I'm sorry that you've been PM'ing and had no response when the member has been online. I do sincerely hope the both of you can resolve your issues but preferably in private.
( I chose to reply on the forum rather than via PM as I felt your attempts to contact should be noted along with the fact you've had no response) I don't want anyone to be seen in a bad light here and I sincerely wish the two of you can recoup your friendship rather than fall out on an open forum.

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I'm just going to say summat here. How odd that the member has been online when she hasn't had an internet connection for some months now. So there is no point whatsoever in pm'ing her or writing anything about her on here. She can't read it.

 

[dessie]

Saraquele, thanks for your PM, I'm sorry that you've been PM'ing and had no response when the member has been online. I do sincerely hope the both of you can resolve your issues but preferably in private.
( I chose to reply on the forum rather than via PM as I felt your attempts to contact should be noted along with the fact you've had no response) I don't want anyone to be seen in a bad light here and I sincerely wish the two of you can recoup your friendship rather than fall out on an open forum.

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I'm just going to say summat here. How odd that the member has been online when she hasn't had an internet connection for some months now. So there is no point whatsoever in pm'ing her or writing anything about her on here. She can't read it.

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I'm sorry, may be I am missing something here, but this topic seems to have dissolved into a discussion about a matter that is only between two people, ie Saraquele and Lydia. It has nothing to do with anyone else.

This topic started off as a hypothetical question about breeders having dogs that they had bred returned to them and should remain that way!!!

 

[wild whippies]

The poster who started the thread brought a named individual to the topic. I posted because I felt it too was off topic?! :wacko:

 

[kim & Tilly]

Back to topic.....

when you buy a puppy i guess you should ask what would happen if things didnt work out, as they dont always...

Im not talking about silly things like, oh i didnt realise how hard a puppy would be or they take up to much time or chew things etc etc...then you assume the buyer hadnt done their homework on the breed

But if you had a genuine reason, ie you have another dog and they fight, or something like that, i dont see a reason why you should return the dog and not expect the price paid returned to you

Ok if you return the puppy 6 months down the line then no i guess you wont get all your money back, or if you have returned it because you dont like the colour or it didnt make the grade in the ring or it has a health problem.

But you cant say i have this 8 week old puppy i returned it when it was 9 weks because things did work out (as requested by breeder) and they turnround and say thanks very much no refund ????

 

[BeeJay]

>But if you had a genuine reason, ie you have another dog and they fight, or something like that, i dont see a reason why you should return the dog and not expect the price paid returned to you

BUT that could have been caused by the owners behaviour - lack of ability to control their dogs or the new owners environment. A lot of behavioural problems are - though some aren't of course.

What happens if a dog is returned for say biting. But once back at the breeders doesn't manifest that behaviour in their home? Why isn't it still biting? What was it that caused that dog to bite in the first place? Who's at fault the dog or the owner? Was that then a geniune reason to return the dog and thus the breeder should give back the purchase price?

It's just not that simple. Personally I wouldn't be thinking that I should get back my purchase price. I don't think of dogs in that way as goods. I personally wouldn't ask for any money back.

 

[wild whippies]

Can I ask why do people feel they should get their money back?

I'm curious as to what answers are going to be posted here.

 

[dessie]

Back to topic.....
when you buy a puppy i guess you should ask what would happen if things didnt work out, as they dont always...

Im not talking about silly things like, oh i didnt realise how hard a puppy would be or they take up to much time or chew things etc etc...then you assume the buyer hadnt done their homework on the breed

But if you had a genuine reason, ie you have another dog and they fight, or something like that, i dont see a reason why you should return the dog and not expect the price paid returned to you

Ok if you return the puppy 6 months down the line then no i guess you wont get all your money back, or if you have returned it because you dont like the colour or it didnt make the grade in the ring or it has a health problem.

But you cant say i have this 8 week old puppy i returned it when it was 9 weks because things did work out (as requested by breeder) and they turnround and say thanks very much no refund ????

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That is why contracts, even though they may not be legally binding, are a good idea so that everyone knows where they stand and it is also a reminder to the purchaser that the breeder is interested in the dog that they are selling. I have modified my own one over time by situations that have happened and guess I still will in years to come because people never cease to amaze me.

Conversely, if I returned a dog I would not expect to receive a refund because I would feel that I had failed that dog.

 

[quintessence]

As far as my own two are concerned they have no monetary value to me whatsoever, the last time I thought of them as an amount of money was the day I paid for them. If, God forbid I ever had to re-home them it would be because of a catastrophic event and something I could not remedy , my only concern would be their welfare. Should anything happen to me their futures are secure anyway.

Jenny

 

[Joanna]

As far as my own two are concerned they have no monetary value to me whatsoever, the last time I thought of them as an amount of money was the day I paid for them.  If, God forbid I ever had to re-home them it would be because of a catastrophic event and something I could not remedy , my only concern would be their welfare.  Should anything happen to me their futures are secure anyway. 
Jenny

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Ditto Jenny. It's not like a money-back guarantee at M&S :rant:

I'm getting my gander up again now. Will shut up 'cos it makes me livid that people can even think of animals as products. In fact, the only time I have ever rehomed a pet was a cat. She constantly peed and crapped all over my house, and I put up with it for 9 months. Despite out efforts, she did not improve and as I had originally got her from cats protection and she went back there. I felt such a failure and cried buckets. Instead of wanting my original fee back, I GAVE THEM a donation as I felt so bad.