Why 150 Yards?

[Fleesh]

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Think it's difficult not to agree with everyones point of view cos we all come into racing with different expectations and goals. Maybe there are several factors that affect the distances races are held over, none moreso than the length of track available to clubs over which they can race and utilise in their opens. I think there should be more diversity in the length of the track, weight classes, allowance for dogs against bitches etc, just takes some brave minded club with the capacity to alter the 'goal posts' so to speak and try something different. To try change out at club level might be an interesting experiment, and one that already happens, speaking from my limited experience.As for a true test of a whippet, think that can only be set and achieved by individual dogs and owners themselves. Just because a dog is a supreme champ of champs doesnt mean it is the best..........................only that it won at a time where the conditions were right for it to win, there will always be a better dog, maybe because of the length of track, conditions, gender etc. No-one or thing is invincible....................................................except Liverpool FC and Hartlepool United :lol: :lol:

chris

i think the goal posts have been moved enough , if your not happy with the distance of 150/165yds then go into a sport that you are happy with or get out like i did,as for a dog not being the best because it won supreme champion i have to disagree it was the best on the day over whatever distance they run and thats what counts. like i said before WHIPPETS ARE SPRINTERS NOT STAYERS.whippets have raced over these distances for years and years so why should it be changed to suit a minority of people.

Haway John nothing ventured nothing gained..................if man had stuck with monkeys as mates then you would never have met us fairer sex !! :lol:

It's never the wrong time to think of what might change racing for the better :thumbsup:

Spoken like a true woman :teehee:

 

[spunk]

been in racing 4 24 years, mum and dad longer, a whippet will hit its top speed by 150yd, like john say's we used to run over 140yds traps going forward many years ago.and nothing needs changing, i ave a 22lb dog that is moderate on the straights, but is a good bend dog. it is a matter of putting round peg in a round hole, the rest we ave are mainly good on the straights.

and only go on the bends at champs just to tri and pinch a title.

 

[Fleesh]

been in racing 4 24 years, mum and dad longer, a whippet will hit its top speed by 150yd, like john say's we used to run over 140yds traps going forward many years ago.and nothing needs changing, i ave a 22lb dog that is moderate on the straights, but is a good bend dog. it is a matter of putting round peg in a round hole, the rest we ave are mainly good on the straights.and only go on the bends at champs just to tri and pinch a title.

Now that's honesty for you (w00t)

 

[Vicky]

Very few dogs are capable of competing at the highest level (ie sup's & top open winners) on both bends and straights mainly due to their weight and the handicap system varying for both disciplines, not having a dig but it's unfair to label dogs that have only won supremes on one or the other as "one track ponies" when there are obviously those factors to take into consideration. There are lots of pedigree breeders claiming to breed "multi purpose whippets" fact is (or should that be IMO ) these dogs are jack of all trades and master of none!

Watching dogs you've bred does give the breeder an immence sence of achievement, but so does buying a dog in and taking supremes with it, knowing you have done the dog the justice it deserves and proved to the breeder that you were the right home is a great feeling - if you are the breeder and owner, it doesn't get any better!

For me 150/165yd for straights and 275yd bends gives all dogs a fair crack of the whip throughout the racing season (if the yd/lb handicap stays the same) and they have what it takes. If you just so happen to have a 22lber that can sprint like Peggy Sue and stay like Indian Joe then you are one jammy devil, will be the envy of all your competitors, and no doubt make history.

 

[rodders]

I suppose it's horses for courses yet again, "breeding" two sprinting human athletes would not necessarily produce another sprinting human athlete. We always see a number of African distance runners and yet there are the likes of Francis Obikwelu (Nigerian born but runs for Portugal :- ) one of the top sprinters in the world.
Sometimes genetically a dog naturally develops the larger muscles, shorter stocky physiology etc. required of the out and out sprinter (if memory serves just look at sprinter Zhanna Pintusevich-Block she was short and compact - a little brick sh*t house o ), the more compact the build the quicker the runner gets up to top leg speed etc. Of course this is not condusive to bend racing where a shorter leg stride and larger muscles lead to more overall strides, a faster build-up of lactic acid, the compact sprinter tires quicker than the more rangy runner with lower muscle mass meaning more rapid oxygen exchange in muscle cells, longer legs to take less strides and an overall longer length of time to get up to full speed meaning as their stockier competitors and beginning to "feel the burn" they are just about at full speed and the lag between the two gives the rangier dog the advantage.

Of course the tendency is to breed to get straight supreme winners as having a straight supreme winner is most popular aspiration (no doubt also to do with the length of the straight season and the number of prestigious straight events), therefore we can identify an increasing number of stocky built dogs.

IMHO the upmost achievement in breeding is not to produce as many Supreme, Classic and Title winners and possible but to produce the best quality all rounder, a dog capable of winning on both bends and straights in my eyes is worthy of far more praise than a one track pony.

Ooooh can of worms ... officially ... open ...

(I'm going to duck and cover for the abuse)

Will politely disagree Elise.I want as many champions as I can get :thumbsup:

 

[Fleesh]

I suppose it's horses for courses yet again, "breeding" two sprinting human athletes would not necessarily produce another sprinting human athlete. We always see a number of African distance runners and yet there are the likes of Francis Obikwelu (Nigerian born but runs for Portugal :- ) one of the top sprinters in the world.
Sometimes genetically a dog naturally develops the larger muscles, shorter stocky physiology etc. required of the out and out sprinter (if memory serves just look at sprinter Zhanna Pintusevich-Block she was short and compact - a little brick sh*t house o ), the more compact the build the quicker the runner gets up to top leg speed etc. Of course this is not condusive to bend racing where a shorter leg stride and larger muscles lead to more overall strides, a faster build-up of lactic acid, the compact sprinter tires quicker than the more rangy runner with lower muscle mass meaning more rapid oxygen exchange in muscle cells, longer legs to take less strides and an overall longer length of time to get up to full speed meaning as their stockier competitors and beginning to "feel the burn" they are just about at full speed and the lag between the two gives the rangier dog the advantage.

Of course the tendency is to breed to get straight supreme winners as having a straight supreme winner is most popular aspiration (no doubt also to do with the length of the straight season and the number of prestigious straight events), therefore we can identify an increasing number of stocky built dogs.

IMHO the upmost achievement in breeding is not to produce as many Supreme, Classic and Title winners and possible but to produce the best quality all rounder, a dog capable of winning on both bends and straights in my eyes is worthy of far more praise than a one track pony.

Ooooh can of worms ... officially ... open ...

(I'm going to duck and cover for the abuse)

Will politely disagree Elise.I want as many champions as I can get :thumbsup:

Perfectly understandable Karen, and may good things come to those who wait :luck: .

I do believe somewhere down the line though the entire point of my post has been missed by some, ... prehaps some wish to concentrate on the "one track pony" turn of phrase as a criticism and wish to find an argument where this is not intended to be one rather than concentrate on the body of the text and its true intentions.

Also to be noted I have not at any point mentioned anything about dogs winning championship or open supremes on bends and straights, simply winning, any subsequent comments made about winning supreme status has been misconstrued by the reader.

 

[rodders]

You also said it was your opinion Elise,and everybody is entitled to that :thumbsup: Enjoy the discussion/debate.Love these topics when they come up,it's great to read peoples perception of things. :thumbsup:

 

[Fleesh]

You also said it was your opinion Elise,and everybody is entitled to that :thumbsup: Enjoy the discussion/debate.Love these topics when they come up,it's great to read peoples perception of things. :thumbsup:

As do I Karen and I have enjoyed reading about everyones "take" on the reasons WHY 150yds is sufficient for the whippet or not in their opinion. Particularly when they put abit of their own reasoning behind it.

 

[Fleesh]

You also said it was your opinion Elise,and everybody is entitled to that :thumbsup: Enjoy the discussion/debate.Love these topics when they come up,it's great to read peoples perception of things. :thumbsup:

As do I Karen and I have enjoyed reading about everyones "take" on the reasons WHY 150yds is sufficient for the whippet or not in their opinion. Particularly when they put abit of their own reasoning behind it.

Lets hope there are more comments on the ACTUAL QUESTION POSED IN THE TOPIC

 

[wild whippies]

The way I perceived Elise's post was it's not what a dogs won it but how it's won. By how I mean against what competition, under unfavourable formats or handicaps or simply because they've managed to pull out the stops in a race thats been particularly difficult because the dog may have had to divert it's original predicted course.

In other words dogs that have won against the odds and triumphed in the face of adversity. Obviously these dogs might not neccesarily accrue supreme titles or other accolades especially if they have 'quirks' (i.e. seeding / trapping / etc) but in my eyes it doesn't detract away from the fact they're fine dogs that may in some circumstances have a higher personal precedent in my mind to a dog that's a ''consistent winner'' especially in the case where there'll be siblings of the same calibre.

Does this make sense?

Not got broadband setup yet but I have had my screensaver on PC using random photos from racing and got to say there's tons of dogs that I consider to have ran bloody brilliant races with consistency too but we forget about them far too easily.

 

[Fleesh]

The way I perceived Elise's post was it's not what a dogs won it but how it's won. By how I mean against what competition, under unfavourable formats or handicaps or simply because they've managed to pull out the stops in a race thats been particularly difficult because the dog may have had to divert it's original predicted course.In other words dogs that have won against the odds and triumphed in the face of adversity. Obviously these dogs might not neccesarily accrue supreme titles or other accolades especially if they have 'quirks' (i.e. seeding / trapping / etc) but in my eyes it doesn't detract away from the fact they're fine dogs that may in some circumstances have a higher personal precedent in my mind to a dog that's a ''consistent winner'' especially in the case where there'll be siblings of the same calibre.

Does this make sense?

Not got broadband setup yet but I have had my screensaver on PC using random photos from racing and got to say there's tons of dogs that I consider to have ran bloody brilliant races with consistency too but we forget about them far too easily.

o :b :b :- :- :wub: :wub: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Nubian]

Sorry if I seem to be banging on about this but the more I'm learning the more questions I feel I need to ask!!
From what I can see whippet racing seems to be based on a 150 yards sprint although it is clear that there are a number of bends races.

Coming from a greyhound background I saw that a standard distance was anything between about 380 metres and 480 metres over four bends. I know there were shorter and longer distances than these but this was the standard run and the end of these races the greyhounds were blowing hard. You knew (and I'm sure they did) they had just had a good run!

Now I know that we are talking about whippets here and they are a lot smaller than greyhounds and I'm not saying the whippets should be made to over- extend themselves. I cannot help noticing though from my very limited experience that when a whippet has just had it's 150 yards race it appears to be hardly blowing at all compared to greyhounds at the end of a race! Please don't think I'm saying that your whippets aren't being given a work-out, it's just doesn't look like it through my newcomer eyes.

So, following on from my other topic about whether bitches really are faster than dogs, could the answer be that 150 yards is too short to really present a true test of speed? I'm not saying that whippets should be run over anything like the distances a greyhound would run over but does it mean that 150 yards is long enough to truly test a whippet's speed, especially a non-ped?

I have run greyhounds over a stiff 400 yard straight gallop at Wickwar in Gloucestershire and at the end of that you are left in no doubt that the stronger, faster dog has won!

That might be a bit too stiff a test for a most whippets but perhaps say 200 or 275 yards might be a fairer test of outright speed than 150 yards?

Once again I'm not moaning or suggesting any change but just wondered people might think. I suspect you may find some surprising results!

So what if you have a dog that takes Sup over 150/160 yards straights and Sup over 200/240 meters bends ?

same dog won a 32 dog coursing lurcher stake over 400 yards up to 24 inches in hight

Sounds to me like one hell of a dog! This for me may be a more genuine test of a speed than a 150 sprint.

As I say I am simply posing the question as a newcomer as to whether 150 yards is long enough to really test. It seems to me that unless there is something intrinsically different about whippets(as opposed to greyhounds) if you find yourself in a situation in dog racing where the accepted "norm" is that bitches are faster then dogs then I think perhaps it would be a good idea to have a fundamental rethink on how speed is assesed. I know this must sound extremely cheeky to make this suggestion because whippet racing has been going for generations but sometimes looking at things in a different way can sometimes provide the impetus for change . Whether people would be willing to experiment is a different question!

..

 

[got-the-cent]

Sorry if I seem to be banging on about this but the more I'm learning the more questions I feel I need to ask!!
From what I can see whippet racing seems to be based on a 150 yards sprint although it is clear that there are a number of bends races.

Coming from a greyhound background I saw that a standard distance was anything between about 380 metres and 480 metres over four bends. I know there were shorter and longer distances than these but this was the standard run and the end of these races the greyhounds were blowing hard. You knew (and I'm sure they did) they had just had a good run!

Now I know that we are talking about whippets here and they are a lot smaller than greyhounds and I'm not saying the whippets should be made to over- extend themselves. I cannot help noticing though from my very limited experience that when a whippet has just had it's 150 yards race it appears to be hardly blowing at all compared to greyhounds at the end of a race! Please don't think I'm saying that your whippets aren't being given a work-out, it's just doesn't look like it through my newcomer eyes.

So, following on from my other topic about whether bitches really are faster than dogs, could the answer be that 150 yards is too short to really present a true test of speed? I'm not saying that whippets should be run over anything like the distances a greyhound would run over but does it mean that 150 yards is long enough to truly test a whippet's speed, especially a non-ped?

I have run greyhounds over a stiff 400 yard straight gallop at Wickwar in Gloucestershire and at the end of that you are left in no doubt that the stronger, faster dog has won!

That might be a bit too stiff a test for a most whippets but perhaps say 200 or 275 yards might be a fairer test of outright speed than 150 yards?

Once again I'm not moaning or suggesting any change but just wondered people might think. I suspect you may find some surprising results!

So what if you have a dog that takes Sup over 150/160 yards straights and Sup over 200/240 meters bends ?

same dog won a 32 dog coursing lurcher stake over 400 yards up to 24 inches in hight

Sounds to me like one hell of a dog! This for me may be a more genuine test of a speed than a 150 sprint.

As I say I am simply posing the question as a newcomer as to whether 150 yards is long enough to really test. It seems to me that unless there is something intrinsically different about whippets(as opposed to greyhounds) if you find yourself in a situation in dog racing where the accepted "norm" is that bitches are faster then dogs then I think perhaps it would be a good idea to have a fundamental rethink on how speed is assesed. I know this must sound extremely cheeky to make this suggestion because whippet racing has been going for generations but sometimes looking at things in a different way can sometimes provide the impetus for change . Whether people would be willing to experiment is a different question!

..

ye thats why whippet racing is declining to many changes FACT.As gary said we cannot get longer distances on straight and them wot like bend racing bend race personaly i do not like bend racing straights for whippets bends for greyhounds OMO

 

[Fleesh]

I'd be interested to see if there may be some 175yds or 200yds race meetings again if what DavidH suggested is correct and there is enough room for a 200yds sprint at Whitton Castle. :thumbsup:

 

[Nubian]

Hi Wild!
I see exactly what you are saying but I'm a bit confused at the idea of a non-ped decelerating after 150 yards due to lactic acid build up!

From what you say it seems that in a nutshull, whippets are bred for 150 yards with a few others breed for bends.

Usain Bolt won the 100 metres in the Olympics in a world record time. He is big tall and very powerful, yet until recently he was not considered to be the fastest man in the world over 100 metres! He was regularly beaten by faster starting athletes simply because he often took a while to get into his stride but in the Olympic final he was able to keep the faster starting athletes within reach but once he got going it became clear that he is the fastest in the world bar none! As a newcomer it just seems to me thatin whippet racing the 150 metre champions may not actually be the fastest whippets simply because the race is over before the very fastest have got into their stride.

Is it that the champions are merely the quick trappers, blasting out the traps and going on to win race after race over 150 yards before their competitors have got going? Are these really the fastest whippets?

Hi Nubian, googling the likes of sprint athletes and acidosis will probably explain what I mean but lactic acid isn't the only factor, there are many that come into play.

Being unfamiliar with Usian Bolt I googled him, physically I'd say he looked like a sprinter, especially when you compare him to the likes of a Kenyan long distance athlete.

To me, I consider that over 150yds there is no margin for error, it's not just a matter of trapping well and going full pelt, being able to hold this is important too, especially with dogs that are stronger finishers coming up from behind. Miss the lids with either a dog with early pace or a strong finisher and it will often cost them a win, I actually like the idea that there is no margin for error and consider it a proper race.

I don't know the answer, as I say I'm a newbie but I just can't help wondering if things would be a little different if a "real" test was to be established!

What would you consider to be a ''real'' test? It'd be interesting to see what you think would be and I bet there's a dog out there that'll cater for it, whether it's a non-ped on the straights is another matter.

Hi Wild,

Sorry for the late response on this. The point I was making about sprinters is that I know they are made up totally differently to long distance runners. In a nutshull, as far as Africans are concerned West Africans and their descendants(ie West Indians and black Americans )produce sprinters whereas East Africans produce middle and long distance runners. Yes, they are all Africans but their muscle fibre make-up is entirely different. To me it is the same with whippets and greyhounds. Both are sprinters whether they specialise in 150 yards to 1100 yards. Comparing sprinters with marathon runners would be like comparing greyhounds/whippets to say African Hunting dogs which are the true marathon runners of the canine world- they can chase a wildebeest all night until it just collapses!

I've gone on a bit here but what I am trying to say is that whippets are all in essence sprinters but which whippets are truly the fastest sprinters? In human beings I think it is fair to say that the fastest over 100 metres are the ones with the highest top speed but with whippets I just struggle to see how 150 yards is the equivalent distance. From my admittedly inexperienced observations my guess is that this is probably the equivalent of a human racing over 40 or 50 meteres and is not really long enough to show the very fastest whippets. I have no idea what the optimum distance is maybe 250 to 300 yards? All I am asking is whether there is a better way than the current one to judge?

 

[Nubian]

Hi Nubian
Sorry I've been late getting back to this. IMO Wickwar is not a test of speed because it is uphill and too long for dogs smaller than greyhounds (and yes, I have run a track greyhound there). As others have said, whippets can hit top speed inside 150 yds and that is what whippet racing is - a test of sprint pace, ped or non-ped. What is peculiar, in my view, is that we handicap them on weight so that some of them are less than ideal weight whereas for greyhound sprints, you pack muscle (and therefor weight) on to the dog. I can't help feeling that some whippets - especially the peds - would run faster with more muscle mass. Maybe the owners think they have more chance in a particular weight group.

Those of us that elect to do more than one sport with our dogs sometimes have to sacrifice early pace for stamina and of course the size of the dog comes into that. The other thing is that bitches generally have more early pace than dogs because their hearts are physically larger (sorry, I can't find the link that explains this - I'll post it if I can get it back). But for coursing, where stamina and power come into play, gives powerful dogs the advantage. Luke won his WCR Ch title over 24lbs straight and 25lbs bends and never lacked the stamina for a 16 coursing stake but he was prettyunusual (he qualified for BWRA finals, too). In greyhounds, my Moonlake Mr Oak who ran up in the Anglia was 100lb dog and when I used to put him in local stakes as a veteran to make up the numbers, the racing trainers with their two-year old bitches thought they had an easy draw against a 6 year old 100lber but although their bitches led out of slips for about 50 yards, it was always the old man who got to the hare first. As always, it is horses for courses and people breed for what they want to do. You haven't asked for my advice but it would be that if you want to race, concentrate on getting a dog that can win over 150 yards and when you can do that, think about what else you want to do and what kind of a dog you would need. ie Don't try to do too many things at once or you won't succeed at any of them. :luck:

Gay

www.moonlake.co.uk

Hi Moonlake!

Thank you for the advice. It sounds very sensible to me. Moonlake Mr Oak was one hell of a dog. I recall him doing some serious damage to many a greyhounds reputation over the running grounds at Swaffham!

I am grateful to get your guidance on this. I just wish I had discovered whippets earlier!

 

[ahorsnall]

Hi Wild!
I see exactly what you are saying but I'm a bit confused at the idea of a non-ped decelerating after 150 yards due to lactic acid build up!

From what you say it seems that in a nutshull, whippets are bred for 150 yards with a few others breed for bends.

Usain Bolt won the 100 metres in the Olympics in a world record time. He is big tall and very powerful, yet until recently he was not considered to be the fastest man in the world over 100 metres! He was regularly beaten by faster starting athletes simply because he often took a while to get into his stride but in the Olympic final he was able to keep the faster starting athletes within reach but once he got going it became clear that he is the fastest in the world bar none! As a newcomer it just seems to me thatin whippet racing the 150 metre champions may not actually be the fastest whippets simply because the race is over before the very fastest have got into their stride.

Is it that the champions are merely the quick trappers, blasting out the traps and going on to win race after race over 150 yards before their competitors have got going? Are these really the fastest whippets?

Hi Nubian, googling the likes of sprint athletes and acidosis will probably explain what I mean but lactic acid isn't the only factor, there are many that come into play.

Being unfamiliar with Usian Bolt I googled him, physically I'd say he looked like a sprinter, especially when you compare him to the likes of a Kenyan long distance athlete.

To me, I consider that over 150yds there is no margin for error, it's not just a matter of trapping well and going full pelt, being able to hold this is important too, especially with dogs that are stronger finishers coming up from behind. Miss the lids with either a dog with early pace or a strong finisher and it will often cost them a win, I actually like the idea that there is no margin for error and consider it a proper race.

I don't know the answer, as I say I'm a newbie but I just can't help wondering if things would be a little different if a "real" test was to be established!

What would you consider to be a ''real'' test? It'd be interesting to see what you think would be and I bet there's a dog out there that'll cater for it, whether it's a non-ped on the straights is another matter.

Hi Wild,

Sorry for the late response on this. The point I was making about sprinters is that I know they are made up totally differently to long distance runners. In a nutshull, as far as Africans are concerned West Africans and their descendants(ie West Indians and black Americans )produce sprinters whereas East Africans produce middle and long distance runners. Yes, they are all Africans but their muscle fibre make-up is entirely different. To me it is the same with whippets and greyhounds. Both are sprinters whether they specialise in 150 yards to 1100 yards. Comparing sprinters with marathon runners would be like comparing greyhounds/whippets to say African Hunting dogs which are the true marathon runners of the canine world- they can chase a wildebeest all night until it just collapses!

I've gone on a bit here but what I am trying to say is that whippets are all in essence sprinters but which whippets are truly the fastest sprinters? In human beings I think it is fair to say that the fastest over 100 metres are the ones with the highest top speed but with whippets I just struggle to see how 150 yards is the equivalent distance. From my admittedly inexperienced observations my guess is that this is probably the equivalent of a human racing over 40 or 50 meteres and is not really long enough to show the very fastest whippets. I have no idea what the optimum distance is maybe 250 to 300 yards? All I am asking is whether there is a better way than the current one to judge?

so how do you work out a whippet doing 150 yds is the same as man doing 40 yds :blink:

 

[ahorsnall]

Hi Wild!
I see exactly what you are saying but I'm a bit confused at the idea of a non-ped decelerating after 150 yards due to lactic acid build up!

From what you say it seems that in a nutshull, whippets are bred for 150 yards with a few others breed for bends.

Usain Bolt won the 100 metres in the Olympics in a world record time. He is big tall and very powerful, yet until recently he was not considered to be the fastest man in the world over 100 metres! He was regularly beaten by faster starting athletes simply because he often took a while to get into his stride but in the Olympic final he was able to keep the faster starting athletes within reach but once he got going it became clear that he is the fastest in the world bar none! As a newcomer it just seems to me thatin whippet racing the 150 metre champions may not actually be the fastest whippets simply because the race is over before the very fastest have got into their stride.

Is it that the champions are merely the quick trappers, blasting out the traps and going on to win race after race over 150 yards before their competitors have got going? Are these really the fastest whippets?

Hi Nubian, googling the likes of sprint athletes and acidosis will probably explain what I mean but lactic acid isn't the only factor, there are many that come into play.

Being unfamiliar with Usian Bolt I googled him, physically I'd say he looked like a sprinter, especially when you compare him to the likes of a Kenyan long distance athlete.

To me, I consider that over 150yds there is no margin for error, it's not just a matter of trapping well and going full pelt, being able to hold this is important too, especially with dogs that are stronger finishers coming up from behind. Miss the lids with either a dog with early pace or a strong finisher and it will often cost them a win, I actually like the idea that there is no margin for error and consider it a proper race.

I don't know the answer, as I say I'm a newbie but I just can't help wondering if things would be a little different if a "real" test was to be established!

What would you consider to be a ''real'' test? It'd be interesting to see what you think would be and I bet there's a dog out there that'll cater for it, whether it's a non-ped on the straights is another matter.

Hi Wild,

Sorry for the late response on this. The point I was making about sprinters is that I know they are made up totally differently to long distance runners. In a nutshull, as far as Africans are concerned West Africans and their descendants(ie West Indians and black Americans )produce sprinters whereas East Africans produce middle and long distance runners. Yes, they are all Africans but their muscle fibre make-up is entirely different. To me it is the same with whippets and greyhounds. Both are sprinters whether they specialise in 150 yards to 1100 yards. Comparing sprinters with marathon runners would be like comparing greyhounds/whippets to say African Hunting dogs which are the true marathon runners of the canine world- they can chase a wildebeest all night until it just collapses!

I've gone on a bit here but what I am trying to say is that whippets are all in essence sprinters but which whippets are truly the fastest sprinters? In human beings I think it is fair to say that the fastest over 100 metres are the ones with the highest top speed but with whippets I just struggle to see how 150 yards is the equivalent distance. From my admittedly inexperienced observations my guess is that this is probably the equivalent of a human racing over 40 or 50 meteres and is not really long enough to show the very fastest whippets. I have no idea what the optimum distance is maybe 250 to 300 yards? All I am asking is whether there is a better way than the current one to judge?

so how do you work out a whippet doing 150 yds is the same as man doing 40 yds :blink:

 

[Nubian]

Hi Wild!
I see exactly what you are saying but I'm a bit confused at the idea of a non-ped decelerating after 150 yards due to lactic acid build up!

From what you say it seems that in a nutshull, whippets are bred for 150 yards with a few others breed for bends.

Usain Bolt won the 100 metres in the Olympics in a world record time. He is big tall and very powerful, yet until recently he was not considered to be the fastest man in the world over 100 metres! He was regularly beaten by faster starting athletes simply because he often took a while to get into his stride but in the Olympic final he was able to keep the faster starting athletes within reach but once he got going it became clear that he is the fastest in the world bar none! As a newcomer it just seems to me thatin whippet racing the 150 metre champions may not actually be the fastest whippets simply because the race is over before the very fastest have got into their stride.

Is it that the champions are merely the quick trappers, blasting out the traps and going on to win race after race over 150 yards before their competitors have got going? Are these really the fastest whippets?

Hi Nubian, googling the likes of sprint athletes and acidosis will probably explain what I mean but lactic acid isn't the only factor, there are many that come into play.

Being unfamiliar with Usian Bolt I googled him, physically I'd say he looked like a sprinter, especially when you compare him to the likes of a Kenyan long distance athlete.

To me, I consider that over 150yds there is no margin for error, it's not just a matter of trapping well and going full pelt, being able to hold this is important too, especially with dogs that are stronger finishers coming up from behind. Miss the lids with either a dog with early pace or a strong finisher and it will often cost them a win, I actually like the idea that there is no margin for error and consider it a proper race.

I don't know the answer, as I say I'm a newbie but I just can't help wondering if things would be a little different if a "real" test was to be established!

What would you consider to be a ''real'' test? It'd be interesting to see what you think would be and I bet there's a dog out there that'll cater for it, whether it's a non-ped on the straights is another matter.

Hi Wild,

Sorry for the late response on this. The point I was making about sprinters is that I know they are made up totally differently to long distance runners. In a nutshull, as far as Africans are concerned West Africans and their descendants(ie West Indians and black Americans )produce sprinters whereas East Africans produce middle and long distance runners. Yes, they are all Africans but their muscle fibre make-up is entirely different. To me it is the same with whippets and greyhounds. Both are sprinters whether they specialise in 150 yards to 1100 yards. Comparing sprinters with marathon runners would be like comparing greyhounds/whippets to say African Hunting dogs which are the true marathon runners of the canine world- they can chase a wildebeest all night until it just collapses!

I've gone on a bit here but what I am trying to say is that whippets are all in essence sprinters but which whippets are truly the fastest sprinters? In human beings I think it is fair to say that the fastest over 100 metres are the ones with the highest top speed but with whippets I just struggle to see how 150 yards is the equivalent distance. From my admittedly inexperienced observations my guess is that this is probably the equivalent of a human racing over 40 or 50 meteres and is not really long enough to show the very fastest whippets. I have no idea what the optimum distance is maybe 250 to 300 yards? All I am asking is whether there is a better way than the current one to judge?

so how do you work out a whippet doing 150 yds is the same as man doing 40 yds :blink:

Only a guess! It is based on the obvious lack of heavy breathing that you might expect from any living creature after a bout of sustained anaerobic exertion. If you watch human athlete sprinters train they do lots of repetitive sprints over shorter distances. If you look at a top class sprinter you dont see them breathe at all heavily until they have run a sustained sprint over at least 60 metres a 40 metre sprint would hardly set their pulses racing. I drew the analogy from what I assumed were some very fit whippets racing over at Thurrock. I tell you those dogs could not have been breathing at much more than rest rate after having just done 150 metre sprint.....just a 40 metre training workout for a sprint athlete. I don't claim it is an accurate comparison, just an observation

 

[ahorsnall]

so come on nubian whats youre name what region you going to race what dogs you got im interested to help new comers. you seem to be very interested in changing the format for a new comer :thumbsup: im sure if you think you know that 150 yds is not far you must have raced summit apart from ghd what can be 4 times bigger and race once a week