British And American Whippets

[UKUSA]

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They might have all marched into the ark the same but they all looked different by the time they walked out!

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(w00t) Wow, what a quote!! :cheers: I love it! :thumbsup:

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I thank you. One of my better ones I think!

 

[Seraphina]

WOLVES INDEED

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Actually all dogs are the subspecies of a wolf, that is why the species is is called Canis lupus familiaris, while wolf is Canis lupus. They can also breed together to this day, and while they rarely do so, every male dog is capable getting she-wolf pregnant.

And yes I am very aware that various size greyhound type dogs existed for millennia. I also have the print of Durer's engraving of the St.Eustace, it is framed on my wall. I bought it in Paris many years ago.

 

[Seraphina]

the reason why flat (or oval) bone is better for fast running bred is because that shape can withstand lot higher stress than round bone of the same weight/thickness/density.  

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Have nt we just said that?

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Did you? I cannot see you said anywhere WHY, you just said it would not look right :wacko:

And do you think that the miners in the north of England read Darwin's Theory of Evolution?Nicky

That is exactly what I said. You do repeatedly totally twist what I say. I am sorry if you find my posts too difficult to understand.

And YES it is very important that we use precise language and be as technical as possible in our standards. While breed specialists would to know the quirks of our standard, all breed judges should not be expected to do so.

If you think that it is OK to measure angulation not actually following the bones maybe you would also like this idea; we could start measuring the height at withers from just bellow the pastern up, that would sort out all the height problems

 

[UKUSA]

the reason why flat (or oval) bone is better for fast running bred is because that shape can withstand lot higher stress than round bone of the same weight/thickness/density.  

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Have nt we just said that?

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Did you? I cannot see you said anywhere WHY, you just said it would not look right :wacko:

And do you think that the miners in the north of England read Darwin's Theory of Evolution?Nicky

That is exactly what I said. You do repeatedly totally twist what I say. I am sorry if you find my posts too difficult to understand.

And YES it is very important that we use precise language and be as technical as possible in our standards. While breed specialists would to know the quirks of our standard, all breed judges should not be expected to do so.

If you think that it is OK to measure angulation not actually following the bones maybe you would also like this idea; we could start measuring the height at withers from just bellow the pastern up, that would sort out all the height problems

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Oh Please, Im losing the will to live now!

Nicky

 

[patsy]

the reason why flat (or oval) bone is better for fast running bred is because that shape can withstand lot higher stress than round bone of the same weight/thickness/density.  

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Have nt we just said that?

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Did you? I cannot see you said anywhere WHY, you just said it would not look right :wacko:

And do you think that the miners in the north of England read Darwin's Theory of Evolution?Nicky

That is exactly what I said. You do repeatedly totally twist what I say. I am sorry if you find my posts too difficult to understand.

And YES it is very important that we use precise language and be as technical as possible in our standards. While breed specialists would to know the quirks of our standard, all breed judges should not be expected to do so.

If you think that it is OK to measure angulation not actually following the bones maybe you would also like this idea; we could start measuring the height at withers from just bellow the pastern up, that would sort out all the height problems

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Oh Please, Im losing the will to live now!

Nicky

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Please don't die Nicky the breed needs you.

I don't Adam and Eve it. never mind Noah. I am beginning to think it must be more good luck than good management that I have ever had a whippet champion or ever allowed to judge the breed, but our K.C still passes us even if we are thick,

 

[T Hoare]

You can't actually measure any bones as it is covered in flesh on most of the dogs I have judged.

Sorry to sound perdantic.

 

[anniewhippet]

the reason why flat (or oval) bone is better for fast running bred is because that shape can withstand lot higher stress than round bone of the same weight/thickness/density.  

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Have nt we just said that?

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Did you? I cannot see you said anywhere WHY, you just said it would not look right :wacko:

And do you think that the miners in the north of England read Darwin's Theory of Evolution?Nicky

That is exactly what I said. You do repeatedly totally twist what I say. I am sorry if you find my posts too difficult to understand.

And YES it is very important that we use precise language and be as technical as possible in our standards. While breed specialists would to know the quirks of our standard, all breed judges should not be expected to do so.

If you think that it is OK to measure angulation not actually following the bones maybe you would also like this idea; we could start measuring the height at withers from just bellow the pastern up, that would sort out all the height problems

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Now heres another angle to this thread....................................the difference between a breed specialist and a breed judge............

 

[UKUSA]

Seraphina,

First and foremost if you cant look at a Whippet and tell if it is properly angulated, fore or aft,or view any other part of a Whippet and not be able to say whether it conforms to your understanding of the breed then you should not be judging them. There is no coat to hide anything, it is there for all to see, As far as ,if Ive understood you correctly, non breed specialists judging our breed, of course they should understand the nuances of the breed, Dog showing is an expensive hobby and I don't pay for a judge to learn on my dog, there are plenty of seminars for that.

Many of the dog man and stockmen of yesteryear could neither read or write and many of them were held in high esteem and bred many great dogs. You either have an eye for a dog or you don't and no amount of reading ,measuring or standing on your head and baying at the moon will change that. You've either got it or you have nt.

Nicky

 

[jok]

Seraphina,First and foremost if you cant look at a Whippet and tell if it is properly angulated, fore or aft,or view any other part of a Whippet and not be able to say whether it conforms to your understanding of the breed then you should not be judging them. There is no coat to hide anything, it is there for all to see, As far as ,if Ive understood you correctly, non breed specialists judging our breed, of course they should understand the nuances of the breed, Dog showing is an expensive hobby and I don't pay for a judge to learn on my dog, there are plenty of seminars for that.

Many of the dog man and stockmen of yesteryear could neither read or write and many of them were held in high esteem and bred many great dogs. You either have an eye for a dog or you don't and no amount of reading ,measuring or standing on your head and baying at the moon will change that. You've either got it or you have nt.

Nicky

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Hope you don't mind me saying - but a very good post.

I hope i can explain what i want to say properly - i think some naturally have a much better eye for a dog than others. Lets face it, in all walks of life some people are much better at their 'job' than others. I know people in my occupation that have been doing it for over 20 years and are still not much use, others a lot better but have been doing it a much shorter time. I do believe that in some extent this applies here too. Although i am not for one second denying the importance of experience and knowledge built up over time. :thumbsup:

Sorry if im straying off topic. THanks for all the contributions, im really enjoying reading it.

 

[seaspot_run]

Change of pace---

The raw diet has become very popular in the US for Whippets. It mostly started with the racing folks, but now I'd say about 1/4 of our show people feed raw.

Is this a trend in the UK and Europe, too?

I feel the coat and skin quality of the UK dogs is superior. It's probably genetic, but am interested in how you feed.

 

[Ridgesetter]

Me thinks it's getting a bit too serious. :angry: I'm very tired and sore after having just exhibited through 4 days of whippet judging and 2 Salukis shows in conjunction.

Now I know that the topic was on differences in standards and comparison to dogs years ago, but the majority of our dogs aren't functional hunting /racing dogs. My RR's certainly don't have the opportunity to hunt lions and prove their agility and stamina so as breed custodians and exhibitors, and whilst I might believe my dogs could function as their ancestors did, the environment and conditions are certainly very different today and we are left to use our own judgement and interpretations of standards. Often our choices / thoughts are based on what we are told by older breeders or we are influenced by the winning dog of the day regardless whether it is a good dog or not, plus there are the fads and fancies in our particular country.

No breed looks the same as they did a couple of hundred years ago but nor do humans. Our dogs have better food, better conditions and better veterinary care. They live longer and grow differently because of this care. It's no different to our Olympic swimmers. Their diet, exercise and overall body shape is different to that of 20 years ago and our dogs are evolving the same. My whippets today are certainly different to the whippets I started out with over 20 years ago.

At the end of the day, we look at each others pics posted here and instinctively think yep, I like that or nope, wouldn't keep that one. You look across a ring and you either like a dog or you don't. Who gives a care whether it's upper arm is this long or it's second thigh that long or it's bone is slightly more rounded than flat. Every dog has something that could be improved but it also has something that is good for the breed.

NEVER lose sight of looking at the whole dog; it's overall picture, flow and balance. And whatever country you're in, a good whippet is a good whippet.

Off the soapbox. Have a great day and cuddle a whippet.

 

[patsy]

Seraphina,First and foremost if you cant look at a Whippet and tell if it is properly angulated, fore or aft,or view any other part of a Whippet and not be able to say whether it conforms to your understanding of the breed then you should not be judging them. There is no coat to hide anything, it is there for all to see, As far as ,if Ive understood you correctly, non breed specialists judging our breed, of course they should understand the nuances of the breed, Dog showing is an expensive hobby and I don't pay for a judge to learn on my dog, there are plenty of seminars for that.

Many of the dog man and stockmen of yesteryear could neither read or write and many of them were held in high esteem and bred many great dogs. You either have an eye for a dog or you don't and no amount of reading ,measuring or standing on your head and baying at the moon will change that. You've either got it or you have nt.

Nicky

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Annie do you mean breed specialist and allrounders who judge the breed at top level.

I know that when I have been part of teach ins or whippet work shops I am never technical with my pupils and I have had many kind words after saying how much they have learned. It is an eye and a great love for the breed that you need, not the ability to name every bone in its body.

I know what you mean Tracy, its when someone shows a whippet under you that is like a tub of lard but you just know there is something beautiful underneath.

When we all went to buy the great Ch. Black Knight of Carmodian aged 5mths he was in a black kennel no lights pitch black outside, we all raked our hands over him and took him home the rest is HISTORY.

 

[jok]

Change of pace---
The raw diet has become very popular in the US for Whippets. It mostly started with the racing folks, but now I'd say about 1/4 of our show people feed raw.

Is this a trend in the UK and Europe, too?

I feel the coat and skin quality of the UK dogs is superior. It's probably genetic, but am interested in how you feed.

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I feed raw and now swear by it. There's quite a lot of people who feed it over hear too.

I was told by my vet that my Dobe would require medication for life for a horrible skin condition which left her covered in scurff and nasty scabs. After switching to raw food instead of complete, within 3 weeks the difference in her was amazing. She is free of this condition and not on any medication. I will never feed complete again, raw all the time for my dogs.

I do attribute my Whippets excellent, natural diet to the quality of their coat and skin.....and i wont be experimenting to see if it's worse on complete! :lol:

 

[UKUSA]

To Patsy and Ridgesetter,Well said and I couldnt agree more.For a tired person Ridgesetter you put your point across well, it is the whole dog and Patsy I know that most people, certainly in this country know that we are best friends but Im sure that I speak for many when I say that you have served the breed well and that all of us thank you for it.

Nicky

 

[T Hoare]

To Patsy and Ridgesetter,Well said  and I couldnt agree more.For a tired person Ridgesetter you put your point across well, it is the whole dog and Patsy I know that most people, certainly in this country know that we are best friends but Im sure that I speak for many when I say that you have served the breed well and that all of us thank you for it.Nicky

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Here Here or is it Hear hear???

 

[maggie217]

I feed raw and now swear by it.  There's quite a lot of people who feed it over hear too.
  I will never feed complete again, raw all the time for my dogs.

I do attribute my Whippets excellent, natural diet to the quality of their coat and skin.....and i wont be experimenting to see if it's  worse on complete! :lol:

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Raw here too. But that's what we fed forty years ago before complete feeds were invented. And I didn't have skin problems, allergies, etc in my dogs then, they just lived virtually free of illness until their old age.

 

Pauline

 

[doris]

Change of pace---
The raw diet has become very popular in the US for Whippets. It mostly started with the racing folks, but now I'd say about 1/4 of our show people feed raw.

Is this a trend in the UK and Europe, too?

I feel the coat and skin quality of the UK dogs is superior. It's probably genetic, but am interested in how you feed.

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Hurray, something I can comment on :cheers:

Mine eat EVERYTHING!! some raw, some home cooked, some complete, some I wish they wouldn't :x

Variety is the spice of life :thumbsup:

 

[T Hoare]

Are we not straying from the topic by saying what we feed our dogs, maybe start a new thread would be my suggestion.

 

[Seraphina]

UKUSAMany of the dog man and stockmen of yesteryear could neither read or write and many of them were held in high esteem and bred many great dogs. You either have an eye for a dog or you don't and no amount of reading ,measuring or standing on your head and baying at the moon will change that. You've either got it or you have nt.

Nicky

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I agree, but once you decide to set information in writing form it should be done articulately in simple language with technically correct descriptions. Judges should not have to be expected to learn that Whippets have different meaning of 90 degrees to say Dachshund.

 

If you are saying that it does not matter what the standard says the judge should be able to know what is right???? :wacko:

 

[Seraphina]

UKUSAMany of the dog man and stockmen of yesteryear could neither read or write and many of them were held in high esteem and bred many great dogs. You either have an eye for a dog or you don't and no amount of reading ,measuring or standing on your head and baying at the moon will change that. You've either got it or you have nt.

Nicky

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I agree, but once you decide to set information in writing form it should be done articulately in simple language with technically correct descriptions. Judges should not have to be expected to learn that Whippets have different meaning of 90 degrees to say Dachshund.

 

If you are saying that it does not matter what the standard says the judge should be able to know what is right???? :wacko:

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I should have also said that any total novice or person who knows nothing about dogs should be able to pick up a standard and get some sort of understanding of the breed.