British And American Whippets

[seaspot_run]

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Are we not straying from the topic by saying what we feed our dogs, maybe start a new thread would be my suggestion.

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This topic is about differences between US and UK dogs. I feel that one difference is coat and skin quality.

If that's based in different modes of feeding, it would be interesting to know it.

Karen Lee

 

[Ridgesetter]

This topic is about differences between US and UK dogs. I feel that one difference is coat and skin quality.

If that's based in different modes of feeding, it would be interesting to know it.

Karen Lee

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Firstly, here in Oz, we have both American and UK influence in our whippets and I have direct progeny from both UK and USA lines in my yard and I don't believe there's any difference in coat and skin texture and quality.

Feeding is a very subjective and emotive topic. As someone who has been employed in the pet food industry for over 7 years, I am not aware of any definitive study on the differences in coat and skin condition. It would certainly be noticed if coat quality wasn't evident. I can say there are feeding trials done and studies done on ageing which was fascinating on and also on lean body mass, puppy growth rates and I'm sure there are others including fertility.

I can say as an owner / breeder, all my dogs are fed the same but I have different coats (thicker) in some lines to others. Thinking about this topic, I co-own two imported Border Terriers who are fed the same, housed together and maintained the same and the boys have entirely different coats to each other. One we can roll and the other we can't.

As a judge, I do notice different coats and textures in many breeds and this can be attributed to feeding, shampoos/conditioners, housing, general health, genetics and environment. So I feel it's simplistic to attribute feeding alone to coat and skin.

Having worked so long in the industry, there are many unsubstantiated and unresearched tales, myths and lies. I will say that companies who produce commercial food are strictly regulated and cannot make a claim without validation (or at least that's the case here). What's good for one dog isn't necessarily good for another.

I don't want this to end up in a huge debate on feeding practices. At the end of the day, any owner should feed what suits them, is within their budget and what gives them results they are happy with but they need to be careful about making claims and benefits unless they can be proven.

Cheers

 

[seaspot_run]

I disagree.

The English satin coat and coat quality under the hand is not often seen here in the US unless you have a lot of UK blood close up. I feel that English coats at their best are different than US coats.

We don't value that luxurious feel and natural shine in judging, in part because most of our dogs are the wrong color and markings to really appreciate it, and in part because there is no tradition of valuing it. There IS a difference on average.

 

[UKUSA]

I know that it was back in the mists of timebut when I lived in the U.S I did at first find it a bit of a challenge to feed my dogs the way that I had in the U.K. In the beginning I was fortunate in that my husband was food and beverage director for the Hyatt hotels first in San Francisco and later in Fort Worth, so whenever there was a banquet he would bring home lots of untouched steak and chicken which I would mix with as plain a biscuit as I could find.Eventually I bought a slow cooker and into that went fresh meat , I used the gravy to soak the biscuit and added fresh veg and sometimes a few boiled eggs shells as well. And that is how I still feed today. I will put complete down for them all to have a nibble on at breakfast time but I never feed out of a tin.I thought that my American dogs had good coat and skins then but you know Karen you could be right, there could well be a difference between the coat and skins of our dogs and I agree colour could play a part, I was always told that predominately white dogs coat felt different in texture.

Nicky

 

[quintessence]

I'm very interested in coat and feeding. My two are fed more or less exactly the same but they have different coats. They both shine and feel lovely to the touch but one has a coat like satin it is so very fine. I wonder how much of this is in the bloodlines. I would be interested to hear the views of others.

They are both fawn.

Jenny

 

[dragonfly]

Change of pace---
I feel the coat and skin quality of the UK dogs is superior. It's probably genetic, but am interested in how you feed.

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I am sure that coat quality is genetic. My whippets have the most beautiful coats and skins, but I feed complete with very few extras. I think different colours may tend to have different textures but my brindles and blues are still really shiny. There is a difference between US and UK on this. Coats are softer and more shiny here in the UK. I am sure that diet can make a difference where there is a specific problem but IMHO it doesn't affect general texture! A very well known exhibitor was having a discussion with a novice and trying to prove a point to him, she noticed me standing next to them with a couple of dogs and said " Look at Cathie's dogs, they show the benefit of a raw diet, just look at their condition" When I told them they were fed on complete she had to give up!

Completes do vary of course, I only feed a good one!

Of course a poor diet lacking in essential nutrients will affect skin and condition in any species.

Ali have you got that picture of Monty in shining coat! This is his great granny, Bluestreak Belle Epoque.

 

[Ms Molly]

Having just come across this debate, I am confused to just what this thread is all about??. It has gone from discussing diet, coat and variation in type. So here is my ten cents worth.

There is variation on all continents, but when you get down to it as long as the whippet is typical, balanced and sound in movement it is a good dog regardless of where it lives.

I too have dogs from the USA, Sweden and the UK , and I must say that the skin and coat does differ. My USA import does have a thicker skin texture and the coat is not as close as my UK import.

So no matter what the diet may be, I doubt this would change the skin texture. Whippets need fine skin to help the dog cool down quickly after they have worked in the field.

I have judged on most continents and feel there are quality dogs to be found in every one of them. Of course there are mediocre dogs as well, but overall I think the breed is in pretty good shape.

My husband comes out in a nervous sweat when I venture overseas. As there are many dogs I would love to bring home with me.

cheers

Molly

 

[patsy]

Thank god there are no angles to coat and skin.

The old saying is not far wrong BRED FOR FED FOR AND CARED FOR.

Our Dolly is white pure American and has the most lovely coat and skin, Jason is half American and on his sires side carrying the same lines as Dolly again a lovely coat and skin. I think that in England we have dilutes the pale fawns who usually have a coat and skin to die for. I have found over the years that the dark brindle's do not have as fine a coat and skin as the other colours. Maybe in America with a lot of dark brindle's and hardly any dilutes it could be the answer.

We feed our dogs a mixture, they do have complete but no more than 20 per cent protein, they do have tins and a lot of tuna and sardines, they also have sunflower oil added to their feed, and we have always been complemented on the condition of our dogs. I used to do chicken wings but had a scare with Russell so will not go along that road again. They also get various biscuit treats and chewies plus a custard cream, forgot they also have a drink of tea with lots of milk.

 

[Juley]

I have 5 Whippets , all but one are related and have found that 2 in particular ( the un-related and the darkest brindle) have the finest coats. The others have slightly thicker coats. They are all fed the same way. Nature diet and complete ( of a good quality). They do have some tripe/mince/eggs/tuna as well.

On a different topic, Karen mentioned feet. I do like to see a really good foot on a Whippet, how are the feet in other parts of the world?

 

[TC]

Whilst diet plays an important part in overall condition, I really believe that coat and skin are inherited genetic. Oils and a good natural diet will improve shine and skin condition, but they cannot change texture or make up imho.

My black brindle parti has always had a much coarser coat than the others, yet is fed exactly the same way and aways has been. No amount of brushing or supplements would change that, believe me, I've tried lol!

He is half Belgian, the black brindle half The other half is similarly bred to half of my black and white who has a wonderfully fine, smooth and silky coat.

My fawns, completely different breeding, have beautifully soft, shiny coats too.

TCx

 

[TC]

Having just come across this debate, I am confused to just what this thread is all about??. It has gone from discussing diet, coat and variation in type. So here is my ten cents worth.
There is variation on all continents,  but when you get down to it as long as the whippet is typical, balanced and sound in movement it is a good dog regardless of where it lives.

I too have dogs from the USA, Sweden and the  UK , and I must say that the skin and coat does differ. My USA import does have a thicker skin texture and the coat is not as close as my UK import.

So no matter what the diet may be, I doubt this would change the skin texture. Whippets need fine skin to help the dog cool down quickly after they have worked in the field.

I have judged on most continents and feel there are quality dogs to be found in every one of them. Of course there are mediocre dogs as well, but overall I think the breed is in pretty good shape.

My husband comes out in a nervous sweat when I venture overseas. As there are many dogs I would love to bring home with me.

cheers

Molly

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Well it started as one thing, and ended up being 'a degree in whippet' to quote someone on one of the millions of pages lol!

You did make me laugh what you said about your husband (w00t) I can imagine him breathing a sigh of relief when you come home empty handed!

TCx

 

[Ms Molly]

Patsy,

I don't think diet alone can change the texture of the skin, which I feel goes hand in hand with a coarser thicker coat.

My dogs are fed the same diet, and the whippets with the finer skin have the close silky coat.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying the USA dogs in general have a thicker coat, just some, which I agree is colour linked.

As for the feet, generally the feet in Australia are very good. When I have given Whippet lectures I describe the feet of a whippet

ideally to be the shape of a walnut.

Molly

 

[beaker]

On a different topic, Karen mentioned feet.  I do like to see a really good foot on a Whippet, how are the feet in other parts of the world?

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has anyone any feet pics? :thumbsup:

 

[UKUSA]

Patsy,
I don't think diet alone can change the texture of the skin, which I feel goes hand in hand with a coarser thicker coat.

My dogs are fed the same diet,  and the whippets with the finer skin have the close silky coat.

Don't get me wrong,  I am not saying the USA dogs in general have a thicker coat, just some, which I agree is colour linked.

As for the feet,  generally the feet in Australia are very good. When I have given Whippet lectures I describe the feet of a whippet

ideally to be the shape of a walnut.

Molly

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Hi Molly,

:- " Patsy hasnt said that diet can change the texture of the skin, she said Bred for, Fed for, Cared for. Good food obviously helps keep a dog in good general condition.

Nicky

 

[jok]

Of course good coat and skin is going to be inherited and is down to genetics. You can tell Cathie's Bluestreak Whippets a mile off from their shiny coats alone!

However, the way in which a dog is looked after is bound to have an effect on the condition of the coat, either positively or negatively. :thumbsup:

 

[maggie217]

On a different topic, Karen mentioned feet.  I do like to see a really good foot on a Whippet, how are the feet in other parts of the world?

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has anyone any feet pics? :thumbsup:

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I was just playing about with photos when I read this so here are some 6 month old feet. American/English bloodlines.

Pauline

 

[dragonfly]

However, the way in which a dog is looked after is bound to have an effect on the condition of the coat, either positively or negatively. :thumbsup:

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Agreed, especially if they are allergic to an ingredient or even intolerant to it, that's probably inherited too, or as a result of an illness.

Cathie

 

[dessie]

He is half Belgian, the black brindle half    The other half is similarly bred to half of my black and white who has a wonderfully fine, smooth and silky coat.
TCx

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Actually, he is 3/4 English 1/4 French bred!!!

 

[Natalia]

You can certainly change a dog awfully just by stacking them differently; look what somebody did to my Stella!  (w00t)

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The difference is really amazing here, and the other example is rather extreme, too. But these photos are chosen to show how huge the difference can be. I think when talking about real photos from the shows, when the dog is stacked not to show how different he can look, but to show the best of him, the differences woudn't necessarily be so huge.

A firend of mine wanted to share ring photos of her dog from both sides of Atlantic, but she has some problem putting the pictures here and asked me to do so for her. Here they are:

and

He has some more length and depth in front on the first and more neck and height on the second, but his topline, underline, angulation and front assembly doesn't change much in my opinion.

 

[seaspot_run]

I had a young bitch of my breeding sent here for ring training and conditioning and she had been on a raw diet all her life. I switched her to complete, plus table scraps, but my sovereign remedy for young Whippets who don't have a lot of bloom on them is a cooked breakfast of bacon and an egg scrambled in bacon grease.

Her half-brother, also on raw, has a fabulous coat, but he is half-Aussie/UK lines. I think some dogs do very well on raw and others don't. The dam of this bitch never had a decent diet on raw, and I had to go the eggs, EFA's and grease on her to get her coat the way I wanted it. Our judges don't really seem to care about a harsher texture, but I do. I really love a good coat.

My visitor has gone from a bit motheaten to soft with some shine, but no matter what I feed, none of my dogs have the same texture and natural shine as English Mabel. That satin coat is one of the reasons I desired to have an English solid blue fawn in the first place.

I agree that dilutes tend on average to have a softer texture, tho' I've not noticed difference in shine. Coat quality is definitely something I admire on many of the UK Whippets I have seen. Cathie has gorgeous coats, but she's not the only one, of course. Our original Whippet stock we got back in 1979/80 was closer to recent English imports with more dilutes in the pedigree, and some of those dogs had the most incredible feel to their coats, like soft moleskin. We lost it along the way and now I'm trying to get it back! Not so I can win more, but because of the pleasure I get from those coats at home!

Karen Lee