Bwra Champs Photos

[Tony Taylor]

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Wrong, when Penny eventually over took Turkish, she moved over to the inside, therefore she is a inside runner. She could not over take him on the inside because he was hugging the rail, so the only way for her to get past was to go past on the out side. So I will continue to seed her inside because she prefers the inside, regardless to wether she does or doen't interfer with other dogs.

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Which bit is wrong?

You seed Penny because in your opinion she "prefers" (your words) the rail. Under current rules you're entitled to do so whether it interferes with other dogs or not - which is the point of this particular discussion on seeding. You seed because you perceive it's to your advantage to do so.

I'd say Turkish needs the rail, as would others. Doubt you'll find many who says that of Penny.

 

[milly]

So your saying Penny don't need seeding inside, here she over takes red & blue, then immediately goes for the rail.

 

[milly]

40lb Scratch (R Four Sale, B Kaiser Chief, W Pennysworth, Bk What's It All About)

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Another example why I seed our Penny inside.

 

[Vicky]

to me thats bend racing (w00t) allways been the same  

Ahhh i was waiting for someone to come out with that old chestnut :lol: It's not bend racing, it's dogs being wrongly seeded. Bumping etc i can understand to a certain extent and there's always an added risk with the bends but it doesn't mean people are entitled to do as they please and interfere with experienced bend dogs by badly seeding there own.

 

[milly]

40lb Scratch (R Four Sale, B Kaiser Chief, W Pennysworth, Bk What's It All About)

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Another example why I seed our Penny inside.

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Do you agree with Tony (Penny doesn't need to be seeded inside) look very carefuly at the the evidence, then you decide folks, I rest my case.

ps. and don't delete the posts in my favour Tony :lol:

 

[Paws123]

Geoff are you sure penny over took the 2 other dogs to get to rail.... she may of just been faster away than the other 2 from the traps, giving her the potion she is in on the last bend

Is the pic from the recent bend champs

 

[milly]

Geoff are you sure penny over took the 2 other dogs to get to rail.... she may of just been faster away than the other 2 from the traps, giving her the potion she is in on the last bend Is the pic from the recent bend champs

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If my excellent memory is right, trap 1,2,3 broke away evenly, then Penny got her head infront on the first bend, then made her way to the inside. if she wasn't a insider runner she would have kept the postion she came out of the trap (centre to outside, if you look at it as a 4 dog race) So please give your opinion regarding me seeding her inside. Yes it is the picture from this years bend champs.

 

[Paws123]

Geoff are you sure penny over took the 2 other dogs to get to rail.... she may of just been faster away than the other 2 from the traps, giving her the potion she is in on the last bend Is the pic from the recent bend champs

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If my excellent memory is right, trap 1,2,3 broke away evenly, then Penny got her head infront on the first bend, then made her way to the inside. if she wasn't a insider runner she would have kept the postion she came out of the trap (centre to outside, if you look at it as a 4 dog race) So please give your opinion regarding me seeding her inside. Yes it is the picture from this years bend champs.

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I would hate to think i had to seed other peoples dogs :- "

I think what Tony is saying is if she needed the rail that much she would of cut across in front of the other 2 dogs to get the rail maybe bumping them in her path, where in fact she ran with them till she was clear enough to come into the rail .. i how ever am not saying she is not a railer...because my thought on bend racing are different to others... i believe some dogs prefer a side be it in or out , some dogs have the brains for bend racing and look for clear openings to pass on there preferred side, others that are less intelligent will blow there own race by smashing into other dogs to get to that side... WAIT FOR IT!! others how ever are been pulled extremely left/right due to injury and can do no other than hit the dog on the side there limbs are favouring... looking at previous DVDs i would say this is the problem with smoky blue i maybe wrong

 

[Karen-Coral]

if my young dog is trailed from the 6 box he goes strait to the inside rail..well  before the bend.

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No disrespect aimed at your dog Maurice he is a cracker and that comment is sincere!!!

The race on Sunday highlighted the need for him to run from different positions in order to know how to cope with drawing an outside box ----he was completely at a loss on what to do when running in company once some difficulty rears its head / what to do to pass the others whilst running the bend --it would be interesting to see him with company// 4 other dogs and alternate his position ---just running the straight on a greyhound track a number of times --- to see if he would run straight up track --

only a thought Maurice not a proposal for a new rule just for you --lol steve

 

[weathergirls]

an inside runner can't be deemed not to be because it moves out to pass another I would class it as an experienced bend dog

regarding dogs being thrown wide because they are carrying an injury IMO they shouldn't be running if injured I accept that some have gone undetected however there are those that have been knowingly raced carrying an injury simply bescause it champs take a chance (gonna sound like Malcom here) but if DEFRA ever decides that we have to have a vet on track these dogs would be eliminated at the paddock (GONE OFF TOPIC AGAIN )

 

[milly]

Geoff are you sure penny over took the 2 other dogs to get to rail.... she may of just been faster away than the other 2 from the traps, giving her the potion she is in on the last bend Is the pic from the recent bend champs

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If my excellent memory is right, trap 1,2,3 broke away evenly, then Penny got her head infront on the first bend, then made her way to the inside. if she wasn't a insider runner she would have kept the postion she came out of the trap (centre to outside, if you look at it as a 4 dog race) So please give your opinion regarding me seeding her inside. Yes it is the picture from this years bend champs.

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I would hate to think i had to seed other peoples dogs :- "

I think what Tony is saying is if she needed the rail that much she would of cut across in front of the other 2 dogs to get the rail maybe bumping them in her path, where in fact she ran with them till she was clear enough to come into the rail .. i how ever am not saying she is not a railer...because my thought on bend racing are different to others... i believe some dogs prefer a side be it in or out , some dogs have the brains for bend racing and look for clear openings to pass on there preferred side, others that are less intelligent will blow there own race by smashing into other dogs to get to that side... WAIT FOR IT!! others how ever are been pulled extremely left/right due to injury and can do no other than hit the dog on the side there limbs are favouring... looking at previous DVDs i would say this is the problem with smoky blue i maybe wrong

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So goal posts are being moved to suit brainless dogs then, your words not mine.

Can I ask you once again Dee, is our Penny a inside runner?

ps I removed my other post because I used the wrong discription :b ie brain dead not brain less, sorry.

 

[Karen-Coral]

I was of the understanding that this whippet racing is a sport and every dog was equal in so far as traps /sides /ect --so why should one be favored at all with a side --

Athletes run from where they are drawn --starting block lane number 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8- if they run out of their lane they are disqualified

greyhounds go from position allocated by official in charge /

--who/when/why/ was seeding introduced in the first instance--lets get back to fair play /

you draw a number when you weigh in --

the number is your dogs for that meeting /X heats ect--

people with two dogs in same class would need splitting up

if two heats were needed

highest would go in next heat

it does not matter what class you are in

/ if yours is the lowest in the class/weight group /

/ you have first choice of traps where applicable /

if you are lucky enough to get your side ok--if not theres always another day---

this was how it used to be and worked quite well --until ?

steve

Special for doubters ////// the numbers allocated to the dogs could be against the name of dog for all to see -------not only done but seen to be done ---

 

[rodders]

A great discussion again folks :thumbsup:

Agree with what some have said on here,Penny prefers the rails,but is experienced enough to pass a dog on either side.You cannot penalize a dog for being experienced.Maybe railers and wide runners that will only pass on there prefered side should be seeded extreme until they gain the experience to pass on either side.(Another job for the Race Manager :lol: )I think in most cases,not all before anybody jumps down my throat :lol: experience enables a dog to pass on either side.The only problem there is bends season is too short

 

[rob67]

Would be interesting to see how these racing managers are appointed? Heck of a lot of responsibility and power for one person considering it's difficult to get anyone as a halfway judge even. How would you get consisitency unless you have the same person doing it. Too much like big brother if you ask me...............and it is only my opinion...........if people are thought to be seeding their dogs in a manner that might endanger other dogs knowingly then surely the first step is to let them know that there is a difficulty, why does it always have to be talked about in terms of bans and disqualifications?I think that the pics of Smokey Blue serve a purpose for the discussion, but I also think that there must be many other dogs doing something similar, judging by the responses, that should be considered also, rather than just one dog be used as an example, I'm not sure thats appropriate.

chris

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I really don't see how deciding whether a dog runs as seeded or not is such a big responsibility. There is lots of evidence from photos and DVDs as to how certain dogs run and if there is a log of complaints against certain dogs I think that ought to be enough evidence to satisfy any independant person that the racing managers decisions are made in good faith. Would you question any racing manager for sanctions against Smokey Blue given the evidence presented so far? If rules are applies consistantly then the outcomes will be consistant.

People don't want to be midline judges because it's a boring thankless task where even correct decisions result in abuse not because officials are frightened of the responsibility.

Surely race organisers have a responsibility to ensure that races are conducted in as safe a manner as could be expected. Knowingly allowing dogs to be inappropiatly seeded is negligegence by omission IMO.

My post above suggests that owners of dogs that are being wrongly seeded be warned first. Sanctions should only be needed when owners persistantly ignore warnings. If there are no sanctions it's pointless doing anything since some owners miseeding dogs are being selfish in any case and it seems unlikely a warning alone would be sufficient for them.

Mark my words there's lots of photo's of dogs behaving inappropiatly but they're not posted to prevent a witchhunt. Smokey Blues owner may genuinely believe the dog is a railer and a warning not to seed again may be taken as intended.

Sanctions are better than doing nothing IMO.

Similar sanctions should be taken against dogs fighting .

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Thankyou for your reply Tony, as i said they were only my opinions but i appreciate your replying to my every comment in detail. Evidence from photos and dvd's are important,but in my experience they only tell one story and thats the one that is told by the person viewing them. Not particularly an impartial view.

Can you, or anybody else give me an idea of where to read up about seeding, whether it is greyhound or whippets, because as it seems to be a huge debate at the moment I'd find it useful to get some more info about it. Just wondering where everyone else got their expertise in it?

If there have been comments made about dogs and their seedings from the champs and previous bends meetings, then I presume that the owners would have been notified by now? Although without a "racing manager" I wonder how this might be done, other than through exposure on K9, not in my mind the most kind way of doing it.

I would be interested to know how this "person" might be elected for the job? Will it be a democratic decision............I presume we are only talking about the Fed?

Or will somebody ( who I understand is already being considered) be imposed?

Everybody has an opinion on this, not sure anyone has the right to make comments regarding specific dogs on such a public forum. And that is just my opinion. There have been numerous opportunities for us to post pics of dogs bumping and fighting, we choose not to, our decision because not everyone has the opportunity to use a camera to create a "discussion" and that is not a dig at anyone, just stating our preference.

Who ever said bend racing was over for the season!

chris

 

[Karen-Coral]

Geoff are you sure penny over took the 2 other dogs to get to rail.... she may of just been faster away than the other 2 from the traps, giving her the potion she is in on the last bend Is the pic from the recent bend champs

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If my excellent memory is right, trap 1,2,3 broke away evenly, then Penny got her head infront on the first bend, then made her way to the inside. if she wasn't a insider runner she would have kept the postion she came out of the trap (centre to outside, if you look at it as a 4 dog race) So please give your opinion regarding me seeding her inside. Yes it is the picture from this years bend champs.

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I would hate to think i had to seed other peoples dogs :- "

I think what Tony is saying is if she needed the rail that much she would of cut across in front of the other 2 dogs to get the rail maybe bumping them in her path, where in fact she ran with them till she was clear enough to come into the rail .. i how ever am not saying she is not a railer...because my thought on bend racing are different to others... i believe some dogs prefer a side be it in or out , some dogs have the brains for bend racing and look for clear openings to pass on there preferred side, others that are less intelligent will blow there own race by smashing into other dogs to get to that side... WAIT FOR IT!! others how ever are been pulled extremely left/right due to injury and can do no other than hit the dog on the side there limbs are favouring... looking at previous DVDs i would say this is the problem with smoky blue i maybe wrong

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So goal posts are being moved to suit brainless dogs then, your words not mine.

Can I ask you once again Dee, is our Penny a inside runner?

ps I removed my other post because I used the wrong discription :b ie brain dead not brain less, sorry.

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I would think a fair description of your dog would once have been called a Great Bend Dog ---

that is by us old time racers --and we all would have loved to own one--

that said the short answer just for a change is shes a railer /could not be classed as an outsider could she--

Clever Experienced Able to stay out of trouble would better describe her ---

Steve

 

[Tony Taylor]

Up until the back end of last year the nnwrf only allowed you to seed wide on the bends..When Di left i decided to let people seed dogs inside in hope that dogs at were extremely inside runner had a better chance of gaining the rail and to maybe cut back on bumping etc

I would hate to think some people would just abuse the system and dont for one minute do it intentionally

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In the olden days when we ran to the inside hare the inside trap was a definite advantage and that was the reason no one was allowed to seed inside. This no seeding inside carried forward after we moved over to the outside hare.

I still believe the inside trap gives an advantage, as I suspect do others who seed dogs inside that don't need to be seeded to ensure a safe race.

I accept that seeding of dogs inside that might cause interference to any dog on their inside is safer for all the dogs in the race and while it may give such inside seeded dogs an advantage on balance is probably the right thing to do. If you allow seeding inside just because certain dogs prefer being on the rail then seeding inside becomes pointless when those that might push to get to the rail are seeded outside dogs that can safetly run out of any trap

I think what Tony is saying is if she needed the rail that much she would of cut across in front of the other 2 dogs to get the rail maybe bumping them in her path, where in fact she ran with them till she was clear enough to come into the rail

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I think Dee has the correct interpretation of the word need here.

Geoff,

I haven't said Penny isn't a railer. Penny doesn't need the rail and doesn't interfere with other dogs when she isn't seeded on the rail. The races you quote demonstrate this. Until such time seeding is properly organised you don't need to justify to me or anyone else your choice to seed Penny to what you feel is her advantage.

 

[rob67]

Until such time seeding is properly organised you don't need to justify to me or anyone else your choice to seed Penny to what you feel is her advantage.

Then perhaps the posts made from now on shouldn't specifically relate to any dogs if justification for seeding is not necessary, including smokey blue.

chris

 

[weathergirls]

I would be interested to know how this "person" might be elected for the job? Will it be a democratic decision............I presume we are only talking about the Fed?

Or will somebody ( who I understand is already being considered) be imposed?

chris

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to answer your questions Chris the person ie Racing Manager we have selected not imposed for this job (this is how the NNWRF and the original NWRF has allways worked) is in our opinion the right man for this difficult job, He has a wealth of experience in racing whippets and greyhounds so lets give him a chance and all give him your help and support. We have yet to select someone to work alongside Graham so all feel free to make yourselves known to the committee if you would like to be considered it would be helpful to know who would be willing to get involved

 

[sherry]

well as theres no more bends till when is it? OCTOBER? those that do bend race will have plenty of time to check their dogs whether its an inside or outside runner just glad i dont run the bends and pleased the straights r here. who said the bend season was too short? it seems to have gone on 4 about 95 years to me lol happy straight racing everyone :thumbsup:

 

[milly]

Wrong, when Penny eventually over took Turkish, she moved over to the inside, therefore she is a inside runner. She could not over take him on the inside because he was hugging the rail, so the only way for her to get past was to go past on the out side. So I will continue to seed her inside because she prefers the inside, regardless to wether she does or doen't interfer with other dogs.

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Which bit is wrong?

You seed Penny because in your opinion she "prefers" (your words) the rail. Under current rules you're entitled to do so whether it interferes with other dogs or not - which is the point of this particular discussion on seeding. You seed because you perceive it's to your advantage to do so.

I'd say Turkish needs the rail, as would others. Doubt you'll find many who says that of Penny.

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I can see what your saying Tony, but just because she doesn't bump a dog to get to the rail, her need in my eye's is she's want's the inside, and only experienced bend racer's would see this.