Electric Shock Collars

[Lou_Castle]

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Actually I have met trainers who use 'e' collars not for 'general' training but to stop stock worrying.  I also know trainers who use them to keep their dogs from barking in kennels.

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Many people use the tool only in a punishment mode. That's quite limiting as to what they can be used for and it's given people the idea that's the only way they can be used.

When used in this fashion for "stock worrying" it's usually used at fairly high levels of stim. When this is the case, fallout (unexpected, undesired behaviors) can occur, especially if the timing isn't very good.

Here that's called "crittering" and I don't use the tool in that fashion. I use it at very low levels of stim. It's not just a matter of turning the dial down, it's an entirely different method.

 

[Denis Carthy]

BeeJay

Actually I have met trainers who use 'e' collars not for 'general' training but to stop stock worrying.

Denis

Most pet owners simply want their dogs off lead and reliable recall, proper use of a modern e-collar is almost unlimited, not sure what you have seen in stopping stock chasing, the usual way with a modern e-collar is to reinforce obedience commands, for things like that it's a "leave" and its done through a desentization program with an e, how long it takes depends on what facilites (livestock and differnt locations) are available or can be made available, a couple of weeks not less.

What you said tends to suggest old methods but I dont know, the days are long gone when you just let a high level off on a dog to stop it doing things like chasing.

BeeJay

I also know trainers who use them to keep their dogs from barking in kennels.

Denis

Yes I know they are getting popular with kennels, especially this past 18 months or so, rescues have started using them and the bits (not much) feedback I have they are surprised at the seeming reduction of stress shown by dogs in quiet kennells compared to before - cant see why anyone should be surprised at that

 

[Lou_Castle]

As I said, if I felt the need i would use Ecollar, and I am sure it would achieve what I would want from it.  But you know what ythey say: "If it sounds too good to be true..................it probabaly is" 

I don't think that Ecollars sound "to good to be true." Especially after having seen the results thousands of times. I think they're just another tool used to help train a dog.

do not believe in miracles.

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There aren't any miracles in dog training no matter what tool is used and I've not seen anyone say anything to the contrary so I'm not sure why you use this language.

An Ecollar relies for it's results in training a dog in the exact same way that any other tool does, on the theory of learning as described in OC (Operant conditioning). Behavior that is punished will tend not to repeat and behavior that is rewarded will tend to repeat. Pressing the button of an Ecollar tends to be punishing and releasing it tends to be rewarding.

 

[Tony Taylor]

I'm locking this thread for now. Mods need their sleep as well so it'll reopen tomorrow when there's a few around

 

[wild whippies]

I don't think that Ecollars sound "to good to be true."  Especially after having seen the results thousands of times.  I think they're just another tool used to help train a dog. 

So where is their use inappropiate?

releasing it tends to be rewarding.

Why?

Also do you as a trainer feel there are any methods of dog training where positive rewarding alone is effective and could you kindly give some examples of these?