Height Size Standards

[liza]

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Ok comments understood, and taken with all respect, but when i first got crispy i had no intetions of showing her, hence why kim put her on limited register a. to save her money b. beaucse there was no reason to register her in the pedigree register (if thats what its called). Kim also said this could be changed if i liked. The initial reason i got a whippet is i wanted a small fast dog to do agility trialing with, which will still happen when we get there. Also as far as "not being good enough to show" many comments have been made by kim that she looks exactly like her mum, and by knocker (auriway) that she has excellent shape and temperment, so lol. My main intetion to breed from her is basically to have a son from her to HOPEFULLY be able to show. If this is not recommended by kim (whos word i'd take as gospel over anyone from the net) then i will not do it and get another dog to go down this path. As never having shown, but been to shows this interests me, but if this is the attitude from people who do show on promoting showing it may make me think again. :angry:

have you a pic of crispy

 

[turb065]

bump

this is the most recent pic of her as of 1 hr ago lol

 

[parnew]

Ok comments understood, and taken with all respect, but when i first got crispy i had no intetions of showing her, hence why kim put her on limited register a. to save her money b. beaucse there was no reason to register her in the pedigree register (if thats what its called). Kim also said this could be changed if i liked. The initial reason i got a whippet is i wanted a small fast dog to do agility trialing with, which will still happen when we get there. Also as far as "not being good enough to show" many comments have been made by kim that she looks exactly like her mum, and by knocker (auriway) that she has excellent shape and temperment, so lol. My main intetion to breed from her is basically to have a son from her to HOPEFULLY be able to show. If this is not recommended by kim (whos word i'd take as gospel over anyone from the net) then i will not do it and get another dog to go down this path. As never having shown, but been to shows this interests me, but if this is the attitude from people who do show on promoting showing it may make me think again. :angry:

I thought that Lana's post was very good and to the point (and I agree) without bagging your bitch. If you post and ask the question then put up with the comments that flow back. As for your girl she was put on the LR and pet homed as Kim thought that she was not a show quality bitch, so if you wish to breed her then ask Kim, because as you said "whos word i'd take as gospel over anyone from the net" hmmmmm why post then !!!!!!!

You may be offended by my post, but I don't wish to do so, but naming peoples prefix's saying they have over sized dogs on a public forum is a bit :rant: lets hope your litter is posted on here so we can all look at them, its harder that it looks to breed a good one and I keenly await to see your home bred show dog. Good Luck LOL

 

[turb065]

Since when did i call anyones dogs oversize? i just said they were bigger than crispy, WHO IS SMALL COMPARED TO NEARLY EVERY OTHER WHIPPET I HAVE MET. If these dogs were oversize would they have gotten aust champ status? I doubt it. You are assuming. I said big not oversize, the comment was made in recognition of the original post as i know these dogs have american heritage. I also know a dog with kiwi heritage who is big not oversize who has aust champ status and towers over crispy. The reason i would take kims word as "gospel" is that she has seen crispy, and knows where she is from hence would have much more knowledge on the situation and would be able to advise me with knowledge of my dog. The comments made by other people who shall remain nameless were abrupt without knowing the situation, i was replying to the post. As for the attitudes of some of the people of the site iam slightly shocked as they seem little more than judgemental. Personally i believe that crispy has potential from situations where i have been present and others have not. As previously stated the option was there to show register her when i got her and i declined, therefore i believe it is an option to change it WITH DISCUSSION WITH KIM. i do know some things, i was just dissapointed in the comments of some of the posters

 

[aslan]

Also as far as "not being good enough to show" many comments have been made by kim that she looks exactly like her mum, and by knocker (auriway) that she has excellent shape and temperment, so lol.

.

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i do know some things, i was just dissapointed in the comments of some of the posters

I'm not quite sure why you're so upset Turbo, and I guess by "some of the posters" you mean me. But as far as I can see everyone who has posted here has tried to be constructive - including me.

The purpose of the limited register is so that breeders can place dogs on it that they they think are not show quality or that perhaps may be show quality but going into a pet home and they don't want them unscrupulously bred from. That is what limited register is for - that is fact.

As Griff said, I was not bagging Crispy (although it seems you have read it this way) - how could I bag her? I have not seen her! And the picture you've posted is of her laying down so that tells me nothing - so I still could not bag her - and if you know anything about me you would know that even if I didn't like the dog that is not something I would do on a public forum. My general rule is if you can't say something nice (or helpful) don't say anything at all. Which brings me to my comments....

"And just because people (especially show people) say "I'd love a dog that colour" doesn't mean they're going to rush to you to buy one. They may like the colour but they may have no interest in her lines (or the lines of the dog you choose for her) or they may not even like her (but were tactful enough not to say so - and so commented on her colour)"

I was just trying to alert you to the fact every breeder/exhibitor has their own agenda and their own goals that they are working towards, and even though they may like your bitch, and say nice things about her, they may not necessarily want to buy a pup from her. I know lots of people who'd like to have a black and white whippet but they won't buy one and show it. And there is the possibility of the other side of the coin - that they don't actually like her (and people are entitled not to like your dog you know) and they were just trying to be nice. We've all had it happen. I had a judge many years ago tell me a number of times how much she "LOVED" my bitch. Of course next time she was judging I entered the bitch - and got dumped.

Perhaps if you told us in the beginning a bit more of the situation (eg that you are in regular contact with Kim and that Kim and Knocker have seen Crispy recently and those were their comments) then we wouldn't have assumed that you were a total newbie hoping to have a litter out of a bitch that the breeder had put on the limited register (not to be shown or bred from). I was actually trying to send you back to Kim - if you note I suggested twice that you should be talking to her.

And in regards to the specific height issue - you did tell us how tall your girl is - which, in fact, is not "small", she is correct on the top end of the standard at 18 1/2. You then DID mention two dogs (one could not be certain if you meant dogs or bitches) from a named prefix that "seem to tower over crispy". By association any reader would then work out that these whippets (if they were bitches, not necessarily if they were dogs) were oversized.

And it is a fact that there are a number of oversized whippets who have their championship titles. Judges will often forgive size for other good factors about the dog, as will many a breeder. Which, finally, brings us back to the original topic of discussion.

 

[GotWhippet?]

As long as whippets stay "moderate" sized I am not going to lose sleep over a half inch or so.

 

[liza]

Since when did i call anyones dogs oversize? i just said they were bigger than crispy, WHO IS SMALL COMPARED TO NEARLY EVERY OTHER WHIPPET I HAVE MET. If these dogs were oversize would they have gotten aust champ status? I doubt it. You are assuming. I said big not oversize, the comment was made in recognition of the original post as i know these dogs have american heritage. I also know a dog with kiwi heritage who is big not oversize who has aust champ status and towers over crispy. The reason i would take kims word as "gospel" is that she has seen crispy, and knows where she is from hence would have much more knowledge on the situation and would be able to advise me with knowledge of my dog. The comments made by other people who shall remain nameless were abrupt without knowing the situation, i was replying to the post. As for the attitudes of some of the people of the site iam slightly shocked as they seem little more than judgemental. Personally i believe that crispy has potential from situations where i have been present and others have not. As previously stated the option was there to show register her when i got her and i declined, therefore i believe it is an option to change it WITH DISCUSSION WITH KIM. i do know some things, i was just dissapointed in the comments of some of the posters

thanks for the pic of crispy she looks a real nice girl she is my favourite colour if you do get to breed from her please put the pups on here good luck with her

 

[doris]

I think there have been some really constructive and informative posts on this thread, I wish everyone who replied to OP queries on other threads were as polite and considerate as the posters on this one :thumbsup:

 

[chelynnah]

Hi Turbo,I wonder about this too! in particular with the popular American imports, I know they are the correct size for the UK standard and make very worthy champions, but do they carry genes that throw larger whippets of the American standard size?

Having just come back from the American Whippet National in Atlanta (my second National attended - the first being 2006 in Boston where I saw the same thing as the point I'm making now) here's a point I'd really like to make. Everyone talks about this huge size of the American Whippet. While it's true that their height allows for taller than ours, their whippets in the ring tend to cover the WHOLE of the standard allowed. I saw as many (if not more) 18 inch bitches as I did larger ones - same for size of the males. I can also say that I saw a LOT more 18 inch bitches in their rings than I see in ours...

I just think it's extremely unfair (not just saying this to the poster above, but to everyone - including myself previously) to keep harping back to the size of American whippets when very few have actually seen such a cross section to be able to make a FAIR assumption of what size an 'American Whippet' is.

Wendy

 

[Seraphina]

If you wish to breed and show, the FIRST thing you ought to do is to carefully study the Whippet standard, so you understand what they should look like. Standards are freely available on the internet, just make sure you grt the one we here in OZ go by

Standard

here is one on our club website.

And here is the USA one

US standard

Then it would be useful to get some books about Whippets, and some about breeding dogs - such as The Book of the Bitch and M.B.Willis Practical Genetics for Dog Breeders (by the way, I have a spare one , should anybody need one)

I do not know what it is like in your area but here in Melbourne there are many blue brindle particolour Whippets, actually few years ago there was nothing else but blue brindle parti. As far as the lines go, Bluebelle just had a litter of nine pups few days ago, so the line does not need to be saved from extinction.

The only way you will know if Crispy is good enough to breed from is to learn enough to appraise her yourself, then get her on the main register and show her.

Best of Luck :luck: :luck: :luck:

 

[turb065]

I did hear that belle was having pups again as she is back in the rushdale home for the reason that the owner/breeder was wanting some form her line as he was lacking. As far as colour etc there aint much like her in adelaide, and all in all i would like to have a litter from her for myself as to keep her line myself, even if they all turn out to be pets, essentially i am an obedience trainer i have taken another dog (pappilion) to his cd title, and i wanted a dog to train that was a bit of a challenge otherwise i would have got a border collie. Back to the height topic i measured from the ground to her shoulder, I believe this is the correct way to measure? And as i have said many bitches i have come across at shows are taller than her, and dogs are esspecially taller than her, hence my comments on height. If i dont breed from her i wont be heartbroken, but there was a reason i didn't desex her, and if i get one show dog out of her litter so be it or if i get none so be it. I will still be interested to oneday have a litter but not till she has a cd or agility title. I do appreciate the comments from the posters. One exempt not aslan, your comments were taken in a constructive way as harsh as they were worded. All in all Kim has the final say if the word is no then so be it. Thank you for your posts

 

[Rachel]

Hi Wendy,

"I wonder about this too! in particular with the popular American imports, I know they are the correct size for the UK standard and make very worthy champions, but do they carry genes that throw larger whippets of the American standard size?"

"I just think it's extremely unfair (not just saying this to the poster above, but to everyone - including myself previously) to keep harping back to the size of American whippets when very few have actually seen such a cross section to be able to make a FAIR assumption of what size an 'American Whippet' is."

re. my comments on American dogs, they are not intended as a knock - in fact I don't think anyone has knocked the size of American whippets on this thread, my comments are based on fact not assumption - the American whippet standard is 2ins and 1.5ins taller than our UK breed standard, and I do still wonder if by using whippets carrying genes for a larger (correctly so for the country) size we are introducing genes for a larger whippet model into our UK breeding lines which may be difficult to bring back to a consistent correct size for the UK. This may not be a problem at all.. it would be interesting to hear from someone who has used American lines to comment on their litters for size in particular.

In my limited experience, I bred from a huge but quality whippet dog from larger lines and a correct size bitch - I got enormous pups with great quality, but giants - (consequently I have a very beautiful 23ins bitch!), the only one that was the correct size was the runt! so I am genuinely curious to see how other breeders incorporate dogs carrying larger size lines (correct ones!!!) but other desirable attributes into their breeding plans.

 

[liza]

Hi Wendy,
"I wonder about this too! in particular with the popular American imports, I know they are the correct size for the UK standard and make very worthy champions, but do they carry genes that throw larger whippets of the American standard size?"

"I just think it's extremely unfair (not just saying this to the poster above, but to everyone - including myself previously) to keep harping back to the size of American whippets when very few have actually seen such a cross section to be able to make a FAIR assumption of what size an 'American Whippet' is."

re. my comments on American dogs, they are not intended as a knock - in fact I don't think anyone has knocked the size of American whippets on this thread, my comments are based on fact not assumption - the American whippet standard is 2ins and 1.5ins taller than our UK breed standard, and I do still wonder if by using whippets carrying genes for a larger (correctly so for the country) size we are introducing genes for a larger whippet model into our UK breeding lines which may be difficult to bring back to a consistent correct size for the UK. This may not be a problem at all.. it would be interesting to hear from someone who has used American lines to comment on their litters for size in particular.

In my limited experience, I bred from a huge but quality whippet dog from larger lines and a correct size bitch - I got enormous pups with great quality, but giants - (consequently I have a very beautiful 23ins bitch!), the only one that was the correct size was the runt! so I am genuinely curious to see how other breeders incorporate dogs carrying larger size lines (correct ones!!!) but other desirable attributes into their breeding plans.

i was talking to a friend yesturday regaurding size she has been in whippets for over 40 years she said we are getting over sized whippets by doing to many outcrosses she believes in breeding to her bloodlines to keep the size down my katie and rosie are outcrosses and they are 20 inch bitches so maybe she has a point

 

[affieluver]

i personally cant see a problem with outcrossing providing you do your homework i think health and temprement are 2 of the most important factors in breeding a litter size is something nobody can garuntee i personally prefer to see dogs looking like dogs and bitches to look feminine regardless as to wether they are an inch bigger than the breed standard

 

[Seraphina]

we are getting over sized whippets by doing to many outcrosses[/b] she believes in breeding to her bloodlines to keep the size down my katie and rosie are outcrosses and they are 20 inch bitches so maybe she has a point

If that was the case, I would have backyard full of greyhound sized Whippets. Not only that I outcross, I also have some large ancestors behind. My Genevieve is an outcross, and although her grandmother and great grand father are huge (some say 22" and 23") she is 19", and her litter was again outcross (to a dog from US lines) and Claudia is only 18.5", and as far as i know her siblings are all reasonable size - the girls about the 19" mark and boys 20". Give or take 1/4inch.

Size is predetermined genetically to be within certain margins, however there are some environmental factors that may postpone closing of the growth plates and therefore allowing a dog to be taller than it would have. Interestingly, some other breeds have also "size problem", some are getting bigger, but others are getting smaller, so better diet cannot be held responsible.

 

[GotWhippet?]

Of course diet is a factor. Look at humans compared to say the 15th century. The average height was about a half foot to a foot shorter than today with most women lucky to get to 5 feet tall.

 

[jayp]

I think we can all pretty much agree MOST not ALL show whippets are line /inbred therefore if they are too big and producing too big then it isnt outcrossing thats doing it

 

[chelynnah]

re. my comments on American dogs, they are not intended as a knock - in fact I don't think anyone has knocked the size of American whippets on this thread, my comments are based on fact not assumption - the American whippet standard is 2ins and 1.5ins taller than our UK breed standard, and I do still wonder if by using whippets carrying genes for a larger (correctly so for the country) size we are introducing genes for a larger whippet model into our UK breeding lines which may be difficult to bring back to a consistent correct size for the UK. This may not be a problem at all.. it would be interesting to hear from someone who has used American lines to comment on their litters for size in particular.

Agreed, they allow that much taller at the TOP end - however the lower end is still well within our standard, and as I said in my post there were plenty that fell in with the bottom end (probably more than at the top)

If we're really honest how many bitches in the ring today fit IN our standard? There were plenty over there who would. My whippets look small over here compared to MANY. A large proportion that I saw and spent time with make my girls look positively huge.

Wendy

 

[quintessence]

I might be playing 'devil's advocate' here but whippets have increased in height because we have allowed them to, not because of in-crosses, out-crosses or even noughts and crosses.

 

[T Hoare]

I might be playing 'devil's advocate' here but whippets have increased in height because we have allowed them to, not because of in-crosses, out-crosses or even noughts and crosses.

:lol: :thumbsup: