How Big Is Your Whippet?

[Seraphina]

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However at what point does being to big become a major fault or disqualifactation,, half, one, two, three inchs. Surely there has got to be a cut off point where a dog shouldnt be in the show ring.

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That is what i think, if we just keep increasing the standard sizes we will end up with a breed nothing like the original Whippet. Maybe we should divide the breed to American and English, or into standard (english) and giant for those who like the large ones???

 

[quintessence]

I am a show reports addict, I read them avidly, sometimes over and over again to get a feel for the judge and an idea of why dogs were placed the way they were. Often size is mentioned and many judges remark on ideal size etc and sometimes judges remark on up to size but excelled in other areas.

What I am trying to say is that size should be looked at in relation to the overall dog, it cannot be a disqualifying factor. We have to trust our judges to use their experience to find the best overall whippet and I do believe that just because a whippet is small does not give it an automatic right to be allowed to be shown over others.

I am old enough to remember Ricky, Courtney Fleetfoot of Pennyworth being shown, a beautiful dog but up to size. If he had been chucked out because he was too big it would have been a travesty. His owner Bert Halliwell was not a top breeder but he used exactly the right dog on his bitch, Bellavista Barry, and produced one of the most outstanding whippets of all time.

I may be wrong but I actually trust the judges to do a half decent job most of the time, I also think that after forty years of watching whippets being shown I can still look at dogs and think I'd love to own a dog like that just as forty odd years ago I watched Ricky win the hound group at Blackpool and think I I'd love to own a whippet like that.

I'm not living in the past I'm just saying that the question of size has always been around but we still have some exqusitely beautiful dogs being shown.

Jenny (unusually on soap box)

 

[JAX]

I am a show reports addict, I read them avidly, sometimes over and over again to get a feel for the judge and an idea of why dogs were placed the way they were.  Often size is mentioned and many judges remark on ideal size etc and sometimes judges remark on up to size but excelled in other areas. 
[SIZE=14pt]What I am trying to say is that size should be looked at in relation to the overall dog, it cannot be a disqualifying factor.  [/SIZE]We have to trust our judges to use their experience to find the best overall whippet and I do believe that just because a whippet is small does not give it an automatic right to be allowed to be shown over others.

I am old enough to remember Ricky, Courtney Fleetfoot of Pennyworth being shown, a beautiful dog but up to size.  If he had been chucked out because he was too big it would have been a travesty. His owner Bert Halliwell was not a top breeder but he used exactly the right dog on his bitch, Bellavista Barry, and produced one of the most outstanding whippets of all time. 

I may be wrong  but I actually trust the judges to do a half decent job most of the time, I also think that after forty years of watching whippets being shown I can still look at dogs and think I'd love to own a dog like that just as forty odd years ago I watched Ricky win the hound group at Blackpool and think I  I'd love to own a whippet like that.

[SIZE=14pt]I'm not living in the past I'm just saying that the question of size has always been around but we still have some exqusitely beautiful dogs being shown.[/SIZE]

Jenny (unusually on soap box)

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Well Said Jenny . Im getting bored with this topic now WE`ve had a stupid person :- " say were PURPOSELY breed whipppets and greyhounds together (w00t) :rant: and that we are dishonest to boot :rant:

That Judges only put up people they know ok maybe some are `facey , please dont tar EVERYONE with the same brush . o

Yes ok we do try to breed to size , , and boy is it disappionting when you breed a dog that is near enough perfect everywhere else but goes over size, and all the nit pickers see his his size . Dogs are judges as a WHOLE .

But going on and on and on on this forum wont get them smaller . If you want a smaller one BRED one , but of course it must have perfect movement , correct topline , front, head, ears. shoulders , feet , tail set , hind angulation , second thigh not to mention bite ! I said NOT to mention bite :lol: Sounds so easy dosnt it :thumbsup: :cheers:

Rant over :huggles:

 

[dessie]

And one last thing to add, because I agree (yet again (w00t) ) with Jax.

I am sick of hearing about disqualifying faults

[SIZE=14pt]WE DO NOT HAVE DISQUALIFYING FAULTS IN THIS COUNTRY[/SIZE]

Anyone can show their dog be it big, small, good or bad, neutered or entire just as long as it is eligible.

 

[dawn]

[SIZE=21pt]Bloody Hell Dessie how many times this year is that you have agreed with Jax?[/SIZE] (w00t) (w00t)

I think you ought to sit down and have a stiff drink :huggles: :thumbsup:

Seriously though we responsible breeders all try to breed to the standard after all isn't the aim to improve on what we have got??

Why would we purposely breed dogs that dont conform to the standard and ruin the breed we love so much?

 

[dessie]

[SIZE=21pt]Bloody Hell Dessie how many times this year is that you have agreed with Jax?[/SIZE] (w00t)   (w00t)
I think you ought to sit down and have a stiff drink :huggles:   :thumbsup:

I know, scary isn't it!  LOL!

Seriously though we responsible breeders all try to breed to the standard after all isn't the aim to improve on what we have got??

Why would we purposely breed dogs that dont conform to the standard and ruin the breed we love so much?

Quite so!

Blimey!  Now I'm agreeing with Dawn as well!!

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[JAX]

[SIZE=21pt]Bloody Hell Dessie how many times this year is that you have agreed with Jax?[/SIZE] (w00t)   (w00t)
I think you ought to sit down and have a stiff drink :huggles:   :thumbsup:

I know, scary isn't it!  LOL!

Seriously though we responsible breeders all try to breed to the standard after all isn't the aim to improve on what we have got??

Why would we purposely breed dogs that dont conform to the standard and ruin the breed we love so much?

Quite so!

Blimey!  Now I'm agreeing with Dawn as well!!

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[SIZE=21pt]ME TOO !! (w00t) (w00t) (w00t) :lol: :huggles: [/SIZE]

 

[mikadene]

I don't show any more, tryed it about 5 years ago for a couple of years.

I was a new comer to showing, all I heard from people was you won't win anything until you served your appreticeship (got your face known), judged down at a latter show.

I now only walk and work my whippets.

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I am always amazed when newcomers expect to win. In dog show the novice has to compete against experienced handlers, some with 20-30 years of experience. It is not enough to have a quality dog, you need to train it well and learn to handle it to it's best advantage. If the judge cannot see the dog performing he/she cannot place it. Ringcraft classes help, but to be really successful you need to devote lot of time to practice.

And of-course, those people who have been showing their dogs every weekend for years and years do know most of the judges, but do they win because of that, or because of their handling skill ?

Iwill agree wholeheartedly ith te above. having been on the show scene for many years my other breed being quite successfull I have been kinda embarressed at times when I have been pulled out and know in my heart my dog didn't deserve it. It just so happened I hve entered under judges that like to feather their own nest.

I actually went on a wokshop for Salkis to gain experience of the breed. My mate has had them for years and I have always been round them. I passed the exam , but in the feedback talk one participant who just so happened gave tickets in the breed was asked " What do you take into consideration when judging a dog ".

Well I nearly fell off my chair when he said " I only put up dogs if they fit into my breeding program, " I said What about the breed standard ?. He replied I don't look at that, anyway I breed to my own standard. more laughs came again not from me but the whole class he he he. There are some breeders that try and fit the dog to the standard instead of breeding to the standard.

mike

Nobody would get 3 tennis lessons and walk on a court thinking he can beat the top player.

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How right you are . MY OH wanted to show and had Montee just for that purpose . He came to ringcraft etc and the odd open show but then he wanted to handle him a Champ shows , Even at Open shows he only got lower placing s and my whippet friends asked why Phil was handling him ? :wacko: Its his dog I replied , and like most men didnt take critisium(sp) lightly . anyhow to cut a long story short ................. i I persuaded him to let me handle the dog at Windsor Champ show , ( under a non whippet judge ,,, so no favours done before you start :- " :lol: ) and Montee won a really good puppy class and best puppy dog too , Same dog as at the other shows , but better handling :- " :thumbsup: Phil never handled him again :cheers:

And newcomers DO win ,,,,,,,,, my first championship show ,,,,,,,many years ago . :- " Minor puppy dog , entry of 25 in class , against ALL the top people, Mary Lowe , Ann Knight , June Minns , Barbara Wilton -Clarke . To name but a few and who won ? ME !!! I might have been a novice , but id done all my ringcraft training but I had the best dog

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[dawn]

I have been kinda embarressed at times when I have been pulled out and know in my heart my dog didn't deserve it. It just so happened I hve entered under judges that like to feather their own nest

If you knew this was why they were judging why did u enter under them??

 

[Lakey]

i can see that size i one area that breeders, owners and enthusiasts are going to struggle to agree on.

so i would now like to ask all you breeders out there with influence in the show scene, who i know love the breed is to try and keep the humble english whippet to its roots and dont let it become a pale immatation of what it once was.

 

[Lakey]

i can see that size i one area that breeders, owners  and enthusiasts are going to struggle to agree on. so  i would now like to ask all you breeders out there with influence in the show scene, who i know love the breed is to try and keep the humble english whippet to its roots and dont let it become a pale immatation of what it once was.

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Sorry, and still is in many cases

 

[dessie]

i can see that size i one area that breeders, owners  and enthusiasts are going to struggle to agree on. so  i would now like to ask all you breeders out there with influence in the show scene, who i know love the breed is to try and keep the humble english whippet to its roots and dont let it become a pale immatation of what it once was.

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That is all very well but you can only judge what is in front of you.

For instance, when I judged Belfast I gave a certain bitch who has done a lot of winning a class because she was the best constructed/ mover (which I think is more important than size) in that class BUT she got no further because IMO she is too big and I had others in the line up who fulfilled my interpretation of standard better. But that is not always the way and you can only judge the entry you have!!!

 

[Lakey]

i can see that size i one area that breeders, owners  and enthusiasts are going to struggle to agree on. so  i would now like to ask all you breeders out there with influence in the show scene, who i know love the breed is to try and keep the humble english whippet to its roots and dont let it become a pale immatation of what it once was.

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That is all very well but you can only judge what is in front of you.

For instance, when I judged Belfast I gave a certain bitch who has done a lot of winning a class because she was the best constructed/ mover (which I think is more important than size) in that class BUT she got no further because IMO she is too big and I had others in the line up who fulfilled my interpretation of standard better. But that is not always the way and you can only judge the entry you have!!!

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I know you can only judge whats in front of you and it must be difficult

Thats why i ask all breeders out there to try and keep whippets to their roots

After all we all (me any way) fell in love with the breed years ago

 

[mikadene]

I have been kinda embarressed at times when I have been pulled out and know in my heart my dog didn't deserve it. It just so happened I hve entered under judges that like to feather their own nest

If you knew this was why they were judging why did u enter under them??

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I don't know how to answer this one. I didn't know the judge was going to do what she did until she actually did it. Does that make sence. I thought i would get a good going over , but when I saw what was in the ring with me I knew I should have got about 3rd or 4th, but not 1st. If I had have known a favour was being done I would havenot entered. I have never given anyone a favour . What i see in the ring is what I judge without favour or malice.

regards

Mike

 

[bardmand]

I am old enough to remember Ricky, Courtney Fleetfoot of Pennyworth being shown, a beautiful dog but up to size. 

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I read on a whippet breeder's website that "Ricky" was 19 3/4 inches tall - which might have been considered tall in his day, but certainly would not today.

 

[JAX]

I have been kinda embarressed at times when I have been pulled out and know in my heart my dog didn't deserve it. It just so happened I hve entered under judges that like to feather their own nest

If you knew this was why they were judging why did u enter under them??

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I don't know how to answer this one. I didn't know the judge was going to do what she did until she actually did it. Does that make sence. I thought i would get a good going over , but when I saw what was in the ring with me I knew I should have got about 3rd or 4th, but not 1st. If I had have known a favour was being done I would havenot entered. I have never given anyone a favour . What i see in the ring is what I judge without favour or malice.

regards

Mike

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Have you ever judged whippets? and if so where . when and who did you put up ? :cheers:

 

[MURPHY 1]

The problem lies solely at the foot of the kennel club door, they set the breed standards and it is ultimately there responsibility to ensure judges mantain and judge to those standards.

In coursing (recently banned I know) height restrictions are rigidly enforced.

Dogs are measured prior to getting there coursing certificate ( permission ) and have to be under twenty" at the shoulder, no exceptions!

Jo you say you wouldn't like that in showing but I don't see why not, it maintains type and prevents the working (what they are bred for) qualities being lost to the eyes of the fanciers, like so many other great working breeds.

 

[Seraphina]

Sometime ago Ricky at 19 1/2" was considered tall, nowadays there are 22' Whippets. I would like to ask Jax, Dessie and others, who do not consider the increase in size a problem, if they think it is OK for this trend to continue? And are they be quite happy with the prospect that in near future we may see 23', and 25" and maybe even 26" Whippets in the ring?

 

[JAX]

Of course we dont want whippets to get any bigger (w00t) , and dont advocate the idea that we do . I sure I can honestley say , that NOBODY breeds for a `big ` whippet .

 

[quintessence]

In view of the number of whippets being bred and shown today there are bound to be variations in type. My challenge to you is to come to Crufts, sit and watch the judging and then tell me that the breeders are getting it badly wrong because I don't think you can. I myself don't breed and I'm not sure I ever would, I look at the puppies on K9 and consider there are enough quality puppies being bred to satisfy my desire for a second, third or fourth whippet.

This maybe a bit off-topic but it all boils down to you blaming the breeders, I honestly believe that the majority of show breeders strive to breed the best all round whippet they can, I think my beloved whippet is in safe hands.

They weren't all fantastic specimens of the breed in years gone past, don't forget I was there.

Jenny