Hunting Rabbits With Dogs Your Views

[Levs]

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It always amazes me how quick people are to turn on " the toffs in red coats ". This thread started out about rabbit hunting and has turned into an attack on those in the Scarlet by members who keep running dogs but " walk them on a lead ".

Who's crueller I ask you? somone who allows maybe fifty couple of hounds to live almost naturally in a happy family pack and feeds them on the best natural grub available to a dog. Then they get the oppertunity to hunt and use all there instincts to the full over mile and mile of open countryside maybe two or more times a week through the hunting season, or the pet dog owner who fills there precious pooch with lots of artificial rubbish from the pet store then takes them for a quick walk without letting them off the lead!!!!

I know what makes hounds really happy that's why mine work!

Let them live life to the full and let them sing!

 

[Max&Smokey]

JoJess

Who is going to pay to train the marksman?

What is your criteria for being qualified to shoot a fox?

What about the suffering of a wounded shot animal?

To answer your question "Why are foxes pest" it is because they kill for the sake of killing rather than for food.

Im interesting in your comment "they are beautifull creatures" does this mean you base your opinions on whether an animal can be killed based on a level of attractiveness, can I chase ugly foxes?. I have two pet rats , really pretty but when I had a wild rat in my house it died would you have let the pretty creature run round your house deficating or because a rat is small its Ok to kill it?

Lastly do you drink milk? If you do look up the life of a dairy cow and then ask yourself how the poor male calfs feel before they are unaturally killed. Lets be fair JoJess your views on hunting have nothing todo with animal cruelty Im sure your life is full of inconsistencys where your actions cause suffering to animals which you choose to ignore. Isnt it true that you really object to the class issues surrounding hunting?

 

[Max&Smokey]

Levs,

I have no problem with hunting using dogs, coursing / ferrets guns etc. However I saw one Hunt the Berkeley hunt and when I was out ferreting people came and filled in holes to apparently stop the fox going to ground. I have also read that if they do go to ground terriers can be used to find and dig them out.

It is this part of the sport that I find strange, as I say Ive only seen one hunt so my perspective could be totally wrong. But to me the idea of good sport is that the hunted has a fair chance of escape.

I would be interesting in your views as to why this is done because it did put me off Hunting with hounds.

Regards

 

[nigelmcfc]

I`ve been out a few times with one of the northern hunts , who are a foot pack . With these packs the aim is solely pest control. You could never say that these guys are toffs on horses. On the ground that they hunt on, the use of a terrier is often needed when Charlie runs to ground in rock piles etc. The terrier either bolts the fox which is quickly dealt with by the hounds, or the fox gets shot with a humane killer if it can be dug down to.

Try telling these lads that it isn`t about pest control - they could show you a few dozen lambs taken by foxes each year .

 

[Janimal]

I`ve been out a few times with one of the northern hunts , who are a foot pack . With these packs the aim is solely pest control. You could never say that these guys are toffs on horses. On the ground that they hunt on, the use of a terrier  is often needed when Charlie runs to ground in rock piles etc. The terrier either bolts the fox which is quickly dealt with by the hounds, or the fox gets shot with a humane killer if it can be dug down to.
Try telling these lads that it isn`t about pest control - they could show you a few dozen lambs taken by foxes each year .

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A very good point of view here. :thumbsup: and also think about the packs of dogs destined to be put to sleep because they cannot be re-homed in a 'home' environment beause they are redundant - this is not cruel either I suppose.

 

[JoJess]

Oh dear :b sorry didn't mean to cause offence to any one :blink:

I am a vegetarian and NO I do not drink cows milk I have soya milk

 

[sparky]

hi janimal, a lot of foxhounds as pups are brought up by a human foster family until they are the age to hunt. i could not see why they cannot return to a family environment. regards

 

[Strike Whippets]

The countryside belongs to us all and horray for the ban on hunting Fox's

Prehap's it does, but how do you and others contribute to the countrysides up keep ?? ......It dosn't look like it does by being left alone ........The hedges are cut/layered when the birds arn't nesting .......Woodland needs/has to be managed as does the land ...........Rabbit's can (and do) devistate crop's and foxes kill farm birds and livestock ie lambs ........so yes they are a pest .......As said on here earlier hunting with dogs is the quickest and fairest way to cull down the fox, rabbit populations ........this method takes the elderly, ill, injured out of the gene pools.......survival of the fittest and all that ...........and i'm sorry but if people think this is so terrible, then answer me this .......how do people who think all the little animals are so cute and deserve to run around being happy and free .......how do you justify mink ?? .......the only thing that can control them befor they continue to devistate our native waterways wildlife .....is DOGS :thumbsup:

I (and others) have permission from several land owners round my way, and they are pleased to see the dogs on the land doing what they were bred for (well as long as they leave the pheasants alone that is :b ) as it saves them having to gas/shoot or poison in the blanket effect ........and this in my opinion is a damn sight crueller than any dog killing them

 

[Levs]

Ok we'll begin with the terrier work which has it's own set of rules when the terrierman is part of an official Foxhound pack, the terrierman is required to have permission from the farmer/landowner and the Master as to wether a dig may take place or not. A hunted fox cannot be dug out from a natural earth other than for the purpose of humanely destroying it. A hunted fox can be bolted from a man-made structure or where digging is not possible. A handled fox cannot be rehunted. A fresh fox can be bolted. Master or his or her appointee to supervise all digging and bolting work which should be carried out by no more than 1- 2 persons and where possible one terrier only.

With regards to stopping all earth stoppers are to hold a card issued by MFHA.

I can't speak for the particular day that you witnessed it but there are many reasons that stopping takes place the main one that I can think of is the stopping of badger setts stopping of setts is to be carried out in accordance with section 5 of the Protection of Badgers Act 1992. If a fox is a known rogue to the farm and must be accounted for then the last thing you want him to do is to enter a big old deep badger sett as you won't be able to enter your terrier into the sett and old Reynard is back in the chicken hut that night (w00t) as a ferreting man if you apply the role of the terrier to your ferret and that of the fox to the humble bunny it becomes quite self explanitory sometimes you get a bolt sometimes you have to dig but the results are the same = very effective pest control.

Terrier work is still legal if it is carried out for the protection of game or wild birds kept or preserved for the purpose of shooting.

Days of fine scent to you!

 

[Max&Smokey]

Levs,

Thank you for the information. I think where I had it wrong was I have always seen Fox hunting with Hounds and horses as a sport rather than actually getting rid of foxes. I assumed that going out at night with a lamp , rifle and fox call would net lots more foxes than a daytime hunt as the fox is nocternal, or like ferreting using terriers to locate and dig to foxes would be more effective. As I said in my previous note Ive only seen one hunt so dont really have much idea of what goes on.

JoJess, You certainly havent offended me, we have different views which is fine. I notice though you didnt answer any of my questions only confirmed that not being vegan you are part of the demand for animal products. I dont believe banning hunting has caused one fox not to die its just changed the manner of their demise or whether it was killed legally or not.

 

[*Lesley*]

Oh dear  :b   sorry didn't mean to cause offence to any one  :blink:

I am a vegetarian and NO I do not drink cows milk I have soya milk 

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No offence but why on earth would you be looking on this topic Jo jess didnt you realise what coursing was? and the title is hunting rabbits with dogs, you must have known it you wouldn't like it :unsure:

 

[OEH]

What's happening about 'autumn hunting' this year (my horse has retired :'( so I've not been out) has anyone been and how does it work now?

 

[Janimal]

Oh dear  :b   sorry didn't mean to cause offence to any one  :blink:

I am a vegetarian and NO I do not drink cows milk I have soya milk 

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No you havnt offended me either Jojess - you are entitled to your opinion of course. :thumbsup:

BTW no animals are killed in the making of milk and the calves are very well fed from a bucket with love and attention every day of their lives.

I work on a farm where animals go to slaughter all the time, I am sad about it sometimes but could not be veggie either, :unsure: I find it hard to understand the real reasons why people are veggies sometimes..... suppose I look on it as The Circle of Life.

Sorry folks think this is going off topic a bit now. :b

 

[beaker]

don't worry JoJess i'm not offended ,

it does after all say [SIZE=14pt]"hunting with rabbits your views[/SIZE] ", it would be very boring if everyone had the same opinions. :thumbsup:

 

[beaker]

I am just curious if you came accross a myxi rabbit on your walk would you;

:walk past and leave it to it's terrible fate.

:try and catch it to take it to the vets, probably giving it a heart attack before you get it there, and subject it to at least an hour of intense fear.

:call out the RSPCA and wait for a couple of hours for them to turn up, then watch them try and catch it.

:ring 118 directory enquiries on your mobile and ask for the number of a skilled marksman then ring him (or her :- " ) get them to come and despatch poor bunny before paying their fee.

: or do you think the kindest possible thing to do would give it a split second ending at the hands of an expert ( your dog).

 

[*Lesley*]

Oh dear  :b   sorry didn't mean to cause offence to any one  :blink:

I am a vegetarian and NO I do not drink cows milk I have soya milk 

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No offence but why on earth would you be looking on this topic Jo jess didnt you realise what coursing was? and the title is hunting rabbits with dogs, you must have known it you wouldn't like it :unsure:

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don't worry JoJess i'm not offended , it does after all say [SIZE=14pt]"hunting with rabbits your views[/SIZE] ", it would be very boring if everyone had the same opinions. :thumbsup:

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I wasn't saying Jo Jess shouldn't have a view or that she's caused offence, I myself am very sqeamish about hunting anything with anything, I just tend to stear away from anything I would find upsetting,and also try to not think about where things have come from when I'm eating it, head in the sand approach I know but hey it works for me, I know that by having whippets I am openening myself up to hunting but I'd still freak if they caught anything :x :b

Also I don't understand the point she made about it being natural for a dog to hunt a rabbit and not a fox, lets face it if it runs it will get chased, and fox's leave a path of destruction in their persuit of small animals, rabbits don't

 

[JoJess]

What I was saying is : it is quite natural for sight hounds to chase anything that moves they are trained to chase :- " that is why mine are walked on a lead and only let off one at a time...... I spend a lot of money going to osteopaths to get the dogs in tip top condition so that they can race and DO NOT want them picking up injuries from chasing rabbits etc.......

Also if you DO NOT want to hear other peoples views on hunting rabbits with dogs then make the topic for people who like to course only...... :blink:

 

[Janimal]

I am just curious if you came accross a myxi rabbit on your walk would you;:walk past and leave it to it's terrible fate.

:try and catch it to take it to the vets, probably giving it a heart attack before you get it there, and subject it to at least an hour of intense fear.

:call out the RSPCA and wait for a couple of hours for them to turn up, then watch them try and catch it.

:ring 118 directory enquiries on your mobile and ask for the number of a skilled marksman then ring him (or her  :- "  ) get them to come and despatch poor bunny before paying their fee.

: or do you think the kindest possible thing to do would give it a split second ending at the hands of an expert ( your dog).

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Definitely the latter in my case anyway,

1. the Vets would kill it anyway not treat it

2. you would be lucky to get anyone from the RSPCA to come out, let alone do anything to it

3. it would suffer longer waiting for the marksman to arrive

Oscar killed his first myxi rabbit about a month ago, and I was glad - the state the poor thing was in was horrible. :x

 

[masta]

Just heard on the radio that 20% of the UK is below the poverty line add to that horrendous problems with child/drug abuse children and adults being murdered daily etc in my opinion we have a very long list of problems that need fixing before any one can justify the time and money that has gone into banning hunting with dogs!!

 

[JoJess]

Have to agree with janimal here ?? I do not think anyone would want to watch any animal suffering.........but WHY all of a sudden is there lots of rabbits with myxi... and could I personally kill it my answer would have to be NO :b