Noose style lead for small puppy

[Hemlock]

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A slip lead should not be under the chin. It should rest slack on the lowest part of the neck by the shoulders. IMO it is not suitable for very young puppies that have soft bones and may fight the restriction to the point they damage themselves.

Have your pup wear a collar in the house but not when you can't supervise. This gets them used to weight round the neck. They niggle at first but soon realise that the collar is just part of life.

Harnesses used correctly don't teach dogs to pull, but I seldom see them used correctly and they rarely if ever come with instructions. The harness should have a chest attachment for the lead, and another behind the neck by the shouider. A double-ended lead or two separate leads should be used: one on the chest ring, one on the neck ring. Lead the dog off the neck ring, but when it tries to pull, the chest ring comes into action and turns the dog towards you. This isn't where it wants to be, so they teach themselves not to pull. All the handler has to do is stand still when the lead is tight and move on the instant it slackens. This has to be repeated over and over to begin with, but if the human is consistent, the dog learns very quickly. The dog makes the choices and the reward is walking forward.

Holding the lead - sorry can't post pics and I do appreciate many people are visual rather than verbal, but I'll try again.

Fasten dog end of lead to something like a chair. Stand beside the chair (whatever) as if you are taking it for a walk. Have your arm nearest the chair down by your side. Your little finger points rearward to you and your thumb points forward. Rotate your hand so that your thumb lies against your thigh and your little finger points outward away from you towards the chair and your palm is facing behind you. With your hand in that position, lift your palm by bending your elbow, then lower your palm until it is touching the lead. The lead should pass right across through your palm with the chair at the little finger end. Now you should have the lead held correctly. Let me know if this works for you, and if not I'll try again.

 

[JoanneF]

Holding the lead - sorry can't post pics and I do appreciate many people are visual rather than verbal, but I'll try again.

Like this?

 

[Hal]

I wouldn't particularly use a slip lead on a very young puppy, I think any sensible trainer would say the same, I think from around 16 weeks you could start, but I do feel they were more effective in teaching loose lead with, like you said to Judy, just small gentle flicks. The stop start method on teaching them to walk loosely could work well, but another way that I personally used was to do a complete 180 degree turn whenever the pup starts to walk in front, so it teaches them to follow you and maintain focus on what way your going and what YOUR doing. So practising in the garden on a flat collar and lead would help a lot, just having him walk at your side and then 180 turn when he starts to go ahead and so on. I'm not a fan of harnesses as they are mainly used to encourage your dog to pull, such as search and rescue dogs and police dogs etc. Good luck! Let us know how you get on

Hi Kirsty,
180 sounds good (especially in our back garden) and delaying until week 16 or after sounds good advice. Take your point about harnesses - several people advised me the same (including a friend who used to train huskies to pull). Do you have any difficulty keeping the slip lead high on the neck?

 

[Hemlock]

Yep - photos are just right, as long as the lead loop is at the thumb end. Thank you for posting.(I can do dogs but technology - no chance!). As an exercise, anyone interested can get another person to tug the lead sharply first holding it the old way, then the new. It will surprise you how much stronger your holding power is.

And then - no leash pop corrections. The dog chooses to tighten or slacken the lead - the human just stands still until the lead is slack. Because the dog chooses to slacken the lead, the lesson is learned faster, because it isn't "punishment" but the dog's realisation that if it wants to go forward, the lead has to be slack.

And to reiterate - the leash should NEVER be up the top of the dog's neck, no matter how many show ring dogs you see strung up. It should rest down at the part by the shoulders.

 

[JudyN]

When it's safe to do so, I found it helpful to close my eyes for short periods when lead-training Jasper. I was much more aware of the slight tension on the lead when he started to pull, and when the tension released, so could react that much faster - and I was less likely to stop/pull myself because I was expecting the tension.

It goes without saying you have to choose your locations when doing this ;-)

 

[JoanneF]

as long as the lead loop is at the thumb end

It is.

@Hal, I'd also reiterate that a lead high up the neck could cause permanent injury. And that harnesses do not teach a dog to pull, people train a dog to not pull (or pull if that is the objective like with the huskies).

 

[Ksf]

Yes, I think everyone has their own way of training, just as everyone is saying harnesses dont dont teach dogs to pull, so this is just what I've been taught by my trainer of what is best and has worked really well for me

So I use the brand 'ancol' slip lead which is really good at keeping it high up the neck as the notch that holds it in play doesn't budge.
As long as you teach the pup to walk properly on the lead, damage wont be caused by having the lead under the chin, when they dont walk properly that's when it can cause harm, having it sat under the chin just gives better guidance. Damage can be caused by having a wrong fit harness, not being taught properly to walk on a flat collar, etc. So it's all about the trainer not the tool! Hope this helps

Hi Kirsty,
180 sounds good (especially in our back garden) and delaying until week 16 or after sounds good advice. Take your point about harnesses - several people advised me the same (including a friend who used to train huskies to pull). Do you have any difficulty keeping the slip lead high on the neck?

 

[Hal]

Like this?
View attachment 111979478 View attachment 111979479

Dear Joanne,
Thanks so much for the pictures! I was struggling with this despite Hemlock's kind and detailed description. I notice you are using your left hand. Is that because you are left handed, or because you want your dog on your left hand side.

I know obedience competetions etc want dogs on the left, but I'm very right-handed, so I was thinking of holding my lead in my right.

I'd like to try our Westie for the 'Good Citizen' training at some point, if all goes well, do you think it would be a problem if our puppy walks on the right rather than the left.

Thanks again for the pic,
Hal

 

[JoanneF]

I notice you are using your left hand. Is that because you are left handed, or because you want your dog on your left hand side.

No reason other than it was easier for me to photograph!

 

[Hal]

Yes, I think everyone has their own way of training, just as everyone is saying harnesses dont dont teach dogs to pull, so this is just what I've been taught by my trainer of what is best and has worked really well for me

So I use the brand 'ancol' slip lead which is really good at keeping it high up the neck as the notch that holds it in play doesn't budge.
As long as you teach the pup to walk properly on the lead, damage wont be caused by having the lead under the chin, when they dont walk properly that's when it can cause harm, having it sat under the chin just gives better guidance. Damage can be caused by having a wrong fit harness, not being taught properly to walk on a flat collar, etc. So it's all about the trainer not the tool! Hope this helps

That's great Kirsty,
Many thanks for the advice. The 'Ancol' brand does look good (see what you mean about the notch).

Read somewhere a saying that 'The only thing two dog trainers are likely to agree on is that a third dog trainer is doing everything wrong' Slightly reductive, but I take the point. I'm trying to get quite a range of advice, mainly reward only, but also some more traditional, so if I go with the former at least I know what I'm rejecting. The advice on slip leads came from a more old school source and it is one of several bits of info I've found quite useful.
My friend with the huskies keeps a slip lead by his door (he lives on a boat) in case one of his dogs goes running. He says its handy to be able to grab a lead you can quickly put on a dog. That being said, his dogs are so calm and friendly I can't imagine them running off, but...

Thanks again for the advice.

 

[Hal]

No reason other than it was easier for me to photograph!

))

 

[Ksf]

Haha! Love that quote, it's very true!

But yes always aim for reward based wherever absolutely possible. You'll also eventuallt find the correct tool for your dog, every dog is different and requires a different type of tool that's works for them and you.

Wish you the best of luck with your pup Hal!

That's great Kirsty,
Many thanks for the advice. The 'Ancol' brand does look good (see what you mean about the notch).

Read somewhere a saying that 'The only thing two dog trainers are likely to agree on is that a third dog trainer is doing everything wrong' Slightly reductive, but I take the point. I'm trying to get quite a range of advice, mainly reward only, but also some more traditional, so if I go with the former at least I know what I'm rejecting. The advice on slip leads came from a more old school source and it is one of several bits of info I've found quite useful.
My friend with the huskies keeps a slip lead by his door (he lives on a boat) in case one of his dogs goes running. He says its handy to be able to grab a lead you can quickly put on a dog. That being said, his dogs are so calm and friendly I can't imagine them running off, but...

Thanks again for the advice.

 

[JudyN]

As long as you teach the pup to walk properly on the lead, damage wont be caused by having the lead under the chin, when they dont walk properly that's when it can cause harm

Yet that does rely on them being fully trained before you use the lead in this way - and being fully trained means not leaping forward when they see a cat on the other side of the road, or turning tail because they've just been scared by a car backfiring, or a passer-by steps on their toe, or whatever... For most dogs, if a lead can cause harm if the dog isn't walking properly, then there is a potential risk.

 

[Biker John]

As to the KC Good Citizen, it does not make a difference which side the dog walks on, only that its on a slack lead. Also note for the KCGC the dog does not need to be in the typical obedience position of being close to your leg. It only needs to walk on a slack lead. As you I am right handed but that is a good reason to use the lead in my left hand, it leaves my dominant hand free for anything that crops up.

 

[Hal]

As to the KC Good Citizen, it does not make a difference which side the dog walks on, only that its on a slack lead. Also note for the KCGC the dog does not need to be in the typical obedience position of being close to your leg. It only needs to walk on a slack lead. As you I am right handed but that is a good reason to use the lead in my left hand, it leaves my dominant hand free for anything that crops up.

Great advice John - thank you I've been trying to find this out from the Kennel Club without getting very far. Interesting point about leaving the most useful hand free. Might try and train myself to follow your advice.

 

[Hemlock]

I use either hand and get the dog used to going either side. That way we are ready for any circumstances, and if i walk several dogs together, they are used to going along whichever side I want them.

 

[Biker John]

Hal, my Whippet Folly finds my normal walking speed hard for her so she tends to go slow letting me get slightly ahead, then walking at her normal speed till she's a bit in front. This keeps repeating but as she doesn't actually get to a tight lead both me and the GC assessors are happy. In fact for the gold, which includes a road walk using normal, slow and fast pace. I noticed that she found the normal to be the hardest for her, slow she managed well and my fast pace just meant she could walk at her normal speed.

 

[Hal]

I use either hand and get the dog used to going either side. That way we are ready for any circumstances, and if i walk several dogs together, they are used to going along whichever side I want them.

That makes a lot of sense Hemlock - thank you. I'll maybe start on the right (if I'm comfortable and relaxed maybe Ash will be as well) but I'll shift quickly to work on the left as well as soon as that seems to be working. Your advice, coupled with Biker John's feels like a plan

 

[Hal]

Hal, my Whippet Folly finds my normal walking speed hard for her so she tends to go slow letting me get slightly ahead, then walking at her normal speed till she's a bit in front. This keeps repeating but as she doesn't actually get to a tight lead both me and the GC assessors are happy. In fact for the gold, which includes a road walk using normal, slow and fast pace. I noticed that she found the normal to be the hardest for her, slow she managed well and my fast pace just meant she could walk at her normal speed.

That sounds great. Its a long term plan and who knows if we will ever get beyond the first stage, but its good to have something to aim for and we will do our best. Folly sounds well trained - would love to see that in action She must have great timing.

 

[JudyN]

Something else worth considering is always to use the same length lead. I usually use a 5' one, but if for any reason I use the 4' one I have we both end up tugging on t'other as we're both completely attuned to how close we need to be.