Pedigree Dogs Exposed

[~JO~]

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Letter from the CKCS club to 'Passionate Productions' before airing of the programme. Includes list of actions taken by the club and KC with regards to health problems

Letter from CKCS club

 

[Holliepup]

Sickening. Left me speechless. Those German Shepherds were effectively crippled and yet there they were winning show prizes!

The stupidity, arrogance and self-interest that is leading the human race towards its own destruction is clearly manifest here also. When I see heads of international charity organisations living in million pound houses with chauffeured cars, I stop giving to charity. Perhaps it’s about time we stopped support of those self-satisfied avaricious businessmen who run the KC? And croney breeders who are on the same band wagon - whether they see their reward as financial or ego stroking.

Those, whose love of animals is greater than their own self-interest, should stick two fingers up to the KC and start a rival body!

 

[madbella]

I knew there were inherited problems with some breed like labradors and breathing problems with pugs etc but I didn't know that it was that bad for cavaliers and GSDs. Those poor dogs.

I have a registered pedigree whippet. I chose the breed as it was one of the only breeds that we liked to not have any known inherited problems.

I also chose a KC registered litter as I thought that was the best way to go being a first time dog owner.

Now I am appaled at the KC after seeing this programme, their attitudes to the genetic problems and inbreeding are shocking.

The guy that said he doesn't beleive the science behind it and would inbreed his dogs, soon shut up when she asked him if he would mate with his daughter! And then said that is different. How?

The next time I get a pedigree dog I will be doing a lot of research into its breeding.

P.S. I want a ridgeless ridgeback!

 

[Holliepup]

its a shame as the KC  was founded by dog people , now its mainly business people 

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It was founded by a bunch of upper class individuals (lords and ladies and such) who probably condone inbreeding as they're partial to it themselves. :- "

If the founders of the KC had been a lurcherman, a terrier man, gamekeepers etc then I'm convinced that pedigree dogs wouldn't be in the mess they are today.

I actually think it's meerly a matter of time before the KC turn their attention to lurchers and I think it'll happen sooner now that prospective pet owners can see the attraction of these dogs.

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I agreed, but lets be fair, most of the breeders interviewed could not exactly be described as landed gentry, and yet they have their snouts in the same trough!

 

[Vicky]

Some people seem to be of the opinion that the programme was over edited and biased, which obviously from the programme title seemed to be the case however the KC did nothing as far as i am concerned to back themselves up and were given ample opportunity, however what we heard boiled down to “we won’t be told how to breed by a bunch of outsiders regardless of the scientific evidence against us”, the Chairman, his sidekick and a lot of the well respected breeders & top show judges did nothing to make me feel they had their breeds best interests at heart.

It is ok blaming the puppy farmers and pet only breeder for the breeds demise but fact is there are a lot of Show Breeders & Breed Clubs who think the "breed standard" is the be all and end all and continue to aim their breeding programme around it, inbreeding and so called line breeding is not something the documentary made up - we all know this happens often. Fit for function (which the Kennel Club like to say) is essentially all that Lurcher judging boils down to and i don’t see a downward spiral there.

It's alright the Kennel Club saying changes will be made but i wont hold my breath for them to take the bull by the horns as i am convinced they are alarmed they might lose registration fees, and that is what’s holding them back, the sidekick implied as much.

 

[~JO~]

Perhaps it’s about time we stopped support of those self-satisfied avaricious businessmen who run the KC? And croney breeders who are on the same band wagon - whether they see their reward as financial or ego stroking.

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Have you actually looked at the members of the General Committee of the KC? how many of them are 'business men'? :- "

I completely agree that there are serious concerns about some of these breeds, and breeding from dogs with hereditary diseases is despicable.

 

[Holliepup]

Some people seem to be of the opinion that the programme was over edited and biased, which obviously from the programme title seemed to be the case however the KC did nothing as far as i am concerned to back themselves up and were given ample opportunity, however what we heard boiled down to “we won’t be told how to breed by a bunch of outsiders regardless of the scientific evidence against us”, the Chairman, his sidekick and a lot of the well respected breeders & top show judges did nothing to make me feel they had their breeds best interests at heart.  It is ok blaming the puppy farmers and pet only breeder for the breeds demise but fact is there are a lot of Show Breeders & Breed Clubs who think the "breed standard" is the be all and end all and continue to aim their breeding programme around it, inbreeding and so called line breeding is not something the documentary made up - we all know this happens often.  Fit for function (which the Kennel Club like to say) is essentially all that Lurcher judging boils down to and i don’t see a downward spiral there.

It's alright the Kennel Club saying changes will be made but i wont hold my breath for them to take the bull by the horns as i am convinced they are alarmed they might lose registration fees, and that is what’s holding them back, the sidekick implied as much.

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I agree. The people who were interviewed were not puppy farmers or 'pet breeders' they were ''respected'' breeders/showers. None of them, nor anyone from the KC, was prepared to enter into a balanced discussion. It was only the third parties/professionals who gave persuasive reasoned opinion. The pumped up egocentric arrogance of so many breeders is as much to blame as the blatant money making of the KC. They are clearly onto a good thing and want to keep all outsiders out - it is in their self interest to do so. How can it be correct that judges and breeders come from the same 'gene pool'! Everyone is scratching each others back. Why else would they be so defensive and afraid to be challenged?

 

[Nicola]

I think the programme was very biased and cherry picked the most dramatic scenes to show viewers (and yes I cried too!). They didn't show or acknowledge the efforts being made by breed clubs or the KC to research some of these genetically inherited diseases (thanks for the interesting links Jo). They picked the worst cases of the most badly affected breeds. How many do these total compared to the healthy dogs and breeds we see today? I see no breed defects in either of my two pedigree dogs!

However, that said, I too was shocked! There is simply no denying that the breeds highlighted were grotesquely deformed, or in terrible pain, in comparison to years gone by, and breeders were completely in denial. And despite all the efforts being made by breed clubs, some breeders were still using dogs known to carry very serious congenital illnesses at stud. Disgraceful! I hope this program was a wake up call!

...and I must admit I will be paying closer scrutiny to pedigree trees in future. I really do think breeders should stop re-using the same dog to sire various generations. Common sense does lead one to question this practice.....despite all the arguments for it!

 

[jinnyfizz]

Just posted this ....... relevant to this topic too ................. :thumbsup:

http://www.k9community.co.uk/forums/index....showtopic=51620

 

[Holliepup]

Perhaps it’s about time we stopped support of those self-satisfied avaricious businessmen who run the KC? And croney breeders who are on the same band wagon - whether they see their reward as financial or ego stroking.

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Have you actually looked at the members of the General Committee of the KC? how many of them are 'business men'? :- "

I completely agree that there are serious concerns about some of these breeds, and breeding from dogs with hereditary diseases is despicable.

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That issue is probably not one of number, but of control? That aside, seems to me too many people with too much self interest all conspiring in their cosy little club. The facts are the facts however they were presented - and I for one did not think there was undue bias. It is rotten to the core

 

[masta]

Letter from the CKCS club to 'Passionate Productions' before airing of the programme.  Includes list of actions taken by the club and KC with regards to health problems
Letter from CKCS club

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too little too late they knew the inherent problems that they have in the breed and have done nothing to rectifiy them ie so called breed club turning a blind eye to problems because the gene pool is so confined due to show breeders breeding constantly to "breed standard" at the expense of vigour and vitality how many times have discussions become heated on this and other whippet forums re breed standard how many times have members argued youself included over breeding for function rather than form and purely standard if we are not careful the whippet will be included in the list of dogs which are suffering from inherent problems

 

[Rosie]

Found the whole programme both shocking and fascinating.

Don't really know where to start but the state of the German Sheppards in the SHOW RING :rant: . They could hardly walk, picture the same at a horse show or whippet race/course, would they be allowed to compete, of course not :angry: . Solution - have an independent non KC vet on hand and disqualify dogs with faults.

The Basset hounds and that clueless judge talking about the 'furnishings' on the dog ie excess flappy skin, trying to explain well it's just part of the breed. Weren't they breed to hunt badgers? Todays examples couldn't get down a trap never mind deal with a badger. Solution - all working dog breeds to have an element of purpose tested before being allowed in the ring. So whippets to run a course, bassets to do a simple agility course to proove it could get down a hole if it were legal .

The pug who was considered top show potential but couldn't breath and had a twisted spine . Solution - all dogs to be eligible for competition or breeding to have a health certificate. It was implied that this dog could be used for breeding .

The tragic case of the Cavaliers . It really does seem that this breed is in danger of self destructing. The lady pet owner canvassing for improvements and the breeder that stood out against the other breeders are heroes :cheers: . It's not just dog cruelty it's person cruelty, so many pet owners buy this happy little breed and they are potentially buying heart break .

To allow these things to become action rather than words, I believe that the running of the KC should be put out to tender, they are after all a monopoly :angry: . Give it over to the RSPCA or someone more responsible, you could keep the name and therefore the heritage that goes along with it. They also need powers of legislation but really think KC could do more - 'loose the breeders' kept being quoted well they have the trump card imo - they could control if and when they register pups and can disqualify dogs from shows.

Rant over. Thought it highlighted how much needs doing, lets just hope for some serious changes :thumbsup: .

 

[bertha]

Perhaps it’s about time we stopped support of those self-satisfied avaricious businessmen who run the KC? And croney breeders who are on the same band wagon - whether they see their reward as financial or ego stroking.

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Have you actually looked at the members of the General Committee of the KC? how many of them are 'business men'? :- "

I completely agree that there are serious concerns about some of these breeds, and breeding from dogs with hereditary diseases is despicable.

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That issue is probably not one of number, but of control? That aside, seems to me too many people with too much self interest all conspiring in their cosy little club. The facts are the facts however they were presented - and I for one did not think there was undue bias. It is rotten to the core

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This program as the KC feared was biased, it only locked onto two breeds, the Ridgeback and the Cavalier. I don't agree that healthy Ridgeback pups should be PTS, but found the sensational footage of the Cavaliers dreadful, what were their owners doing allowing their pets to suffer so much, and allowing the film makers to film them. That poor Boxer, what sort of life does that have?

I thought it was really being a against the careful breeding of the pedigree dog.

They went on about in breeding, the race horses we see today are the descendants of a handful of stallions, I think from the Godolphin Stud years ago, think about the in breeding that has gone on since then.

It was all done to be sensational and get viewers angry and boost the viewing figures! IMO.

 

[~JO~]

To allow these things to become action rather than words, I believe that the running of the KC should be put out to tender, they are after all a monopoly  :angry: .  Give it over to the RSPCA

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The RSPCA?? (w00t) :lol:

 

[bertha]

THE MOST DISTURBING INFORMATION FOR ME WAS THE FACT THAT ONLY10% YES JUST 10% OF THE GENES PRESENT IN PEDIGREE DOGS 40 YEARS AGO ARE STILL IN EXISTANCE TODAY, THESE LOST GENES CAN NEVER BE RECOVERED, EVER. THIS IS WHY WE CANNOT CONTINUE TO INBREED IN THE SAME WAY, THESE LOST GENES MAY WELL BE THE ONES THAT PROTECT THE SPECIES FROM CERTAIN DISEASES ,THE IMMUNE SYSTEM IS NOT ABLE TO FUNCTION AS EFFICIENTLY WITHOUT THEM.  IT WILL EVENTUALLY BE IRREVERSABLE

THE KC SHOULD PUT IN PLACE TIGHTER CONTROLS ON TESTING AND INBREEDING, THEIR EXCUSE THAT BREEDERS WOULD CARRY ON BREEDING WITHOUT REGISTRATION IS LUDICROUS. ANY BREEDER RELIES ON PET HOMES FOR THEIR PUPPIES AND WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND GIVEN THE CHOICE WOULD BUY A PET FROM UNTESTED STOCK WHEN THEY COULD BUY A KC REG PET WITH ALL THE REQUIRED TESTS IN PLACE, A LOW IN BREEDING COEFFICIENT,ETC

THE BREEDERS WOULD BE FLOCKING TO TEST AND REGISTER

IT WAS SO SAD THE GENUINE PEOPLE TRYING TO GET THIS INFORMATION OUT THERE FOR THE GOOD OF THE BREED AND PET OWNERS WERE LABELLED AS TROUBLEMAKERS INSTEAD OF BEING APPLAUDED FOR THEIR EFFORTS

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How do we know they are telling the truth? If so many genes have been lost, do we know which ones they are?

If this is the case I am amazed we still exist, the human race included!

 

[Rosie]

To allow these things to become action rather than words, I believe that the running of the KC should be put out to tender, they are after all a monopoly  :angry: .  Give it over to the RSPCA

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The RSPCA?? (w00t) :lol:

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Not necessarily the RSPCA, I was just using that as an example of a management who may have more sense in respect of the breed abnormalities. I have no experience of them but how come you think its so daft, just interested in finding out more about them

 

[posh totty]

the saddest thing ifound was i wasnt shocked at the programme, we see theses breeds week in week out at shows and we say nothing, its been happening in front of us for years i am from a long term lurcher family and unhealthy dogs were not bred from, end of! but these are mutts mongrels whatever you want to call them so dnt count with kc !! im new to showing and still find what i see at times a very bitter pill to swallow :- " i know what i would like to see in the future for dogs !!! to see a dog win BIS knowing it was sooooooooooo unhealthy was disgusting to the exhibitor, judge and breed club :rant: then to breed on from that dog surely must come under the animal welfare act???? :rant: the mastiffs shown with sores , if that dog was kept at a stable yard it would have been removed as a cruelty case :rant: , not a prime specimin of the breed :- "

are whippets going the same way??? well you know as well as i do, that unhealthy lines are being bred from , the puppies are in turn being bred from also, but as long as these people still get awards and win at shows who cares ?? :- " they have waiting lists for puppies because we point them to shows to choose where to buy reliable puppies from :wacko: thankfully we are lucky not to have too many of these people :sweating:

i have to say i really did giggle at the point when the interviewer asked if he would mate with his daughter (w00t)

maybe it is OTT but certainly we should all take on board what has happened over the years and see that the KC have a huge business interest in the breeding and showing of dogs, its a load of twaddle to say they would lose breeders if health screening was put in place , good riddence then i say , people need to register to show ?? good cop out of doing anything though :- "

 

[wild whippies]

also as a purely innocent question , why do you think the KC  will turn its attention to lurchers ? after all it cant deal with its own pedigree breeds without worrying about the dogs that are not KC reg , after all it wont gain any money off the lurcher / non ped dogs so why bother with them ?  :huggles:

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I think it's cheaper to take on new breeds rather than fix the problems existing with current ones. Like you say the KC can't deal with it's own pedigree dogs or rather won't.

The Parson Russell Terrier has been a dog recently recognised by the kennel club (1990) so I would expect the lurcher to gain their attention if it's breeding produced dogs of a consistent phenotype. The worry is with the likes of hunting with dogs being banned, there will be strains of lurcher that will no longer be fit for purpose.

 

[jayp]

Perhaps it’s about time we stopped support of those self-satisfied avaricious businessmen who run the KC? And croney breeders who are on the same band wagon - whether they see their reward as financial or ego stroking.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Have you actually looked at the members of the General Committee of the KC? how many of them are 'business men'? :- "

I completely agree that there are serious concerns about some of these breeds, and breeding from dogs with hereditary diseases is despicable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

That issue is probably not one of number, but of control? That aside, seems to me too many people with too much self interest all conspiring in their cosy little club. The facts are the facts however they were presented - and I for one did not think there was undue bias. It is rotten to the core

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

This program as the KC feared was biased, it only locked onto two breeds, the Ridgeback and the Cavalier. I don't agree that healthy Ridgeback pups should be PTS, but found the sensational footage of the Cavaliers dreadful, what were their owners doing allowing their pets to suffer so much, and allowing the film makers to film them. That poor Boxer, what sort of life does that have?

I thought it was really being a against the careful breeding of the pedigree dog.

They went on about in breeding, the race horses we see today are the descendants of a handful of stallions, I think from the Godolphin Stud years ago, think about the in breeding that has gone on since then.

It was all done to be sensational and get viewers angry and boost the viewing figures! IMO.

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Racehorses have an ideal percentage of inbreeding to aim for and dont forget they above all other need to be fit for function

The percentage is 6% do you realise just how inbred pedigree dogs are?

They have lost 90% of genes in just 40 years,

This is the problem we are facing, the loss of these genes forever is PROVEN to be detrimental to the immune system and health

Do you as careful breeders know how inbred your dogs are?

Simple question but if the answer is no then how can you hope to improve the situation by continuing in the same way

There are lots of "careful" breeders out there, has it helped the GSD, the Bassett

etc

 

[quintessence]

Perhaps it’s about time we stopped support of those self-satisfied avaricious businessmen who run the KC? And croney breeders who are on the same band wagon - whether they see their reward as financial or ego stroking.

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Have you actually looked at the members of the General Committee of the KC? how many of them are 'business men'? :- "

I completely agree that there are serious concerns about some of these breeds, and breeding from dogs with hereditary diseases is despicable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

That issue is probably not one of number, but of control? That aside, seems to me too many people with too much self interest all conspiring in their cosy little club. The facts are the facts however they were presented - and I for one did not think there was undue bias. It is rotten to the core

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

This program as the KC feared was biased, it only locked onto two breeds, the Ridgeback and the Cavalier. I don't agree that healthy Ridgeback pups should be PTS, but found the sensational footage of the Cavaliers dreadful, what were their owners doing allowing their pets to suffer so much, and allowing the film makers to film them. That poor Boxer, what sort of life does that have?

I thought it was really being a against the careful breeding of the pedigree dog.

They went on about in breeding, the race horses we see today are the descendants of a handful of stallions, I think from the Godolphin Stud years ago, think about the in breeding that has gone on since then.

It was all done to be sensational and get viewers angry and boost the viewing figures! IMO.

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​

If all the programme does is stop that bloody women using her Cavalier King Charles Spaniel at stud then it was worth it in my book. Those two clowns representing The Kennel Club need removing from office. Everyone gets to have their say, the breeders, the judges, the vets, the programme makers, the Kennel Club, members of K9, everyone except the dogs.