Poor Blues And Blacks Again

[Seraphina]

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i love this thread 
My solid black lad Oto was mated to a solid cream bitch with liver nose/pigment

the cream bitch was from a blue to fawn mating (not sure if the fawn was fully pigmented or not) and Oto was from a blue to fully pigmented brindle parti,

the resulting pups were all blacks, blue's and irish marked black, a few of the blacks had a few fawn hairs here and there , (deffinately fawn not white), these pups all had the most gloriously black coats no hints of brown and had fully black noses/pigment,

so on the surface they appeared black but could they possibly have been genetically something else? maybe incredibly heavy sabled or verry densly striped black brindle?

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The diluting genes are all recessive. That means that both parents must carry it for their offspring to inherit a pair. Nobody knows how this pale cream with liver nose is created. If the liver gene was usual in Whippets my guess would be that the cream is a combination of all the dilute genes together. It may be that there is some other "super diluting" gene that causes this cream, some gene still to be discovered. There is also the possibility that this colouring is caused by some fault which results in loss of pigment. Does not matter what colour and marking genes this individual inherits, if the pigment is not there to be utilised, the animal will not display them. Naturally, when the cream is mated to something not having this particular gene (fault?) the markings and colours will be expressed. We would learn more if somebody would mate 2 of these creams. My guess is they would be all cream with liver noses.

 

[parnew]

At the start of this thread it was about why don't blacks and blues win and not about colour, so if you are just breeding for colour then you must see why you may have been placed on the end of the line. It has a well known fact that if a nice whippet of black or blue colour is shown your chances of winning are greater than just a colourered whippet, we see heaps of good wins for good black and blue whippets on this site and they won because they are good whippets. Lets get back to the type not colour as most of you filled out the other thread and placed colour at the bottom of the list. Some of you seem to know how to put what colours with what to get the coloured dogs you like, but is you type right.... and if you don't win then I guess you are more on the colour theme than breed type. as there are heaps of judges who like black and blues. This thread will go on for years about colour and how you can make them, but you don't see many threads about what lines cross well to get good breed types, prehaps this could help the kennels that like blacks and blues...........

 

[beaker]

this thread has been great, i should think that anyone who has had even a remote interest in coloured and colour bred dogs has been back to view this topic time and again, and if like me their resolve to breed/own/show a quality coloured dog has been strengthened then all the better.

as an unashamed coloured enthusiast i have spent more than a couple of years researching the colours behind my dogs, more over i have tried to develop a photographic pedigree along the way not just of the blacks and blue's but of all the colours, this has allowed me to visually follow the progress(or not) and development in the lines behind my dogs,

so, far from blinkering me, my research into the coloured history of my dogs has led me to a better understanding of why my dogs look the way they do not just their colours but their whole 'type' and how they were developed. how can this be a bad thing?

i know colour should be immaterial and if given the choice between an excellent brindle or an average black i would choose the brindle every time but if blacks can only be produced when one or more of the parents is coloured and no one gives any concideration to colour in their breeding programme then blacks will eventually become extinct

I know my whippets have faults but being black isn't one of them :lol:

 

[Millie]

this thread has been great, i should think that anyone who has had even a remote  interest in coloured and colour bred dogs has been back to view this topic time and again, and if like me their resolve to breed/own/show a quality coloured dog has been strengthened then all the better. 
as an unashamed coloured enthusiast i have spent more than a couple of years researching the colours behind my dogs, more over i have tried to develop a photographic pedigree along the way not just of the blacks and blue's but of all the colours, this has allowed me to visually follow the progress(or not) and development in the lines behind my dogs,

so, far from blinkering me, my research into the coloured history of my dogs has led me to a better understanding of why my dogs look the way they do not just their colours but their whole 'type' and how they were developed. how can this be a bad thing?

i know colour should be immaterial and if given the choice between an excellent brindle or an average black i would choose the brindle every time but if blacks can only be produced when one or more of the parents is coloured and no one gives any concideration to colour in their breeding programme then blacks will eventually become extinct

I know my whippets have faults but being black isn't one of them  :lol:

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Well said ! :thumbsup:

 

[parnew]

this thread has been great, i should think that anyone who has had even a remote  interest in coloured and colour bred dogs has been back to view this topic time and again, and if like me their resolve to breed/own/show a quality coloured dog has been strengthened then all the better. 
as an unashamed coloured enthusiast i have spent more than a couple of years researching the colours behind my dogs, more over i have tried to develop a photographic pedigree along the way not just of the blacks and blue's but of all the colours, this has allowed me to visually follow the progress(or not) and development in the lines behind my dogs,

so, far from blinkering me, my research into the coloured history of my dogs has led me to a better understanding of why my dogs look the way they do not just their colours but their whole 'type' and how they were developed. how can this be a bad thing?

i know colour should be immaterial and if given the choice between an excellent brindle or an average black i would choose the brindle every time but if blacks can only be produced when one or more of the parents is coloured and no one gives any concideration to colour in their breeding programme then blacks will eventually become extinct

I know my whippets have faults but being black isn't one of them  :lol:

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Great Point, This must be very pleasing for you as I have the same thing going on and it helps me too. Along with 10,499 pedigree's :thumbsup:

 

[beaker]

this thread has been great, i should think that anyone who has had even a remote  interest in coloured and colour bred dogs has been back to view this topic time and again, and if like me their resolve to breed/own/show a quality coloured dog has been strengthened then all the better. 
as an unashamed coloured enthusiast i have spent more than a couple of years researching the colours behind my dogs, more over i have tried to develop a photographic pedigree along the way not just of the blacks and blue's but of all the colours, this has allowed me to visually follow the progress(or not) and development in the lines behind my dogs,

so, far from blinkering me, my research into the coloured history of my dogs has led me to a better understanding of why my dogs look the way they do not just their colours but their whole 'type' and how they were developed. how can this be a bad thing?

i know colour should be immaterial and if given the choice between an excellent brindle or an average black i would choose the brindle every time but if blacks can only be produced when one or more of the parents is coloured and no one gives any concideration to colour in their breeding programme then blacks will eventually become extinct

I know my whippets have faults but being black isn't one of them  :lol:

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Great Point, This must be very pleasing for you as I have the same thing going on and it helps me too. Along with 10,499 pedigree's :thumbsup:

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it was great till i had to start again on some of the pedigree's cos someone chucked half my paperwork out when i moved the computer room :rant:

:'(

still, it makes good revising looking everything up again

 

[mikadene]

Ellie our black and white girl.

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This colour predudice rears it's head in most breeds, but as I have allways said,

" Colour is only a coat of paint anyway ".

By the way I have just got a litter of 7 Blues/white

Mike

 

[Macha]

I see a black dog got Best Opposite Sex at Westminster KC in NY this year

 

[jonesyins14]

I see a black dog got Best Opposite Sex at Westminster KC in NY this year

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Yippee :cheers: now you're talking :- "

 

[petrezselyem]

Hello!

The old theme again; black and blue, the neglected colours.

Have to tell that black and B&W are my favourite colours at all.

I'm a huge adorers of famous kennels which have been undertaken popularising these colours.

There are lots of people who would like to own solid coloured whippets worldwide.

And to demonstrate how serious I'm thinking in terms of this colour:

:luck: :luck:

 

[petrezselyem]

Huh, I 've went on the whole topic. Interesting, like it! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Handy (CH Shamasan Hound Hill Body&Soul JC) Westminster BOS is black, and her mother Nellie is a blue as well Isilwane wrote.

:wub: :wub:

Handy's father is Hound Hill Classical Rag

So Handy's colour is the result of the encountering of blue and fawn colours.

This is either of the 2 ways you can get black.

As well I know that combination has been repeated in 2006., and they got a black pup again..a female! :wub: :wub:

My favourite colour-genetics site is:

http://www.runswiftwhippets.com/Genetics/Genetics.html

 

[petrezselyem]

And here is Nellie, the fantastic blue CH Shamasan Flame'N Queen ARX TRP DPC CR JC

:wub: :wub: :wub:

Lovely! Excellent quality in blue!

 

[Happy Humber]

I saw a black and tan whippet at crufts once I think it was in about 1989

[whoops my age is showing] It was a very good example too anyone know

where that fits into the colour thing?

 

[petrezselyem]

I saw a black and tan whippet at crufts once  I think it was in about 1989[whoops my age is showing] It was a very good example too anyone know

where that fits into the colour thing?

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Hi!

Now I "know" (not personally of course, what a pity!!! ) only one black and tan, he lives in kennel Shamasan as well.

Lovely colour it is! :wub:

:wub: :wub:

Now he is an adult male, but no updated pics are available.

 

[petrezselyem]

I saw a black and tan whippet at crufts once  I think it was in about 1989[whoops my age is showing] It was a very good example too anyone know

where that fits into the colour thing?

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at - (recessive) - Tan points This color pattern is apparently extremely rare or non-existent in Whippets...in my opinion it is non-existent in Whippets.

Source: Runswift colour genetics.

Well, extremely rare, I do think too. (w00t) :- "

 

[Happy Humber]

Beautifil dog My guess would be this colour sneaked in somewhere in the past from a terrier cross but I find it very attractive. I am so pleased there is still a dog of this colour I have often wondered if it had compleaty died out since I saw one such a long time ago. Thanks so much for putting that photo on

 

[petrezselyem]

My guess would be this colour sneaked in somewhere in the past from a terrier cross but I find it very attractive.

Just be sure! :- "

But I agree, nice colour! And rare, so valuable! :wub:

 

[Seraphina]

My guess would be this colour sneaked in somewhere in the past from a terrier cross but I find it very attractive.

Just be sure! :- "

But I agree, nice colour! And rare, so valuable! :wub:

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I believe this Shamasan dog was sold as a pet (therefore no update pics of him), but both of his parents carry the gene, so should the mating be repeated there could be another one born.

 

[Seraphina]

g]So Handy's colour is the result of the encountering of blue and fawn colours.

This is either of the 2 ways you can get black.

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Blue is in fact just diluted BLACK. The solid blue dog is genetically identical to solid black, except that he has the blue dilition "d" gene instead full pigmented "D". Solid blue can have solid black pup if mated to anything with full pigment on the D-locus.

 

[Vanna]

I saw a black and tan whippet at crufts once  I think it was in about 1989[whoops my age is showing] It was a very good example too anyone know

where that fits into the colour thing?

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I think the one at Crufts round about that time would have been Liz Third's Bruntsfield Cloudberry, who was actually blue and tan.