Question

[kirsty633]

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Hi all,

Just been reading threads on other discussion boards and was wondering what you would or how you would define a puppy farmer. Also, do you think this problem exists in whippets? I know some "commercial" breeds suffer greatly, yorkies, chihuahuas, westies and other fashionable breeds, but I wouldn't have thought whippets came into those categories???? Just thought this would be good for discussion!!!!

Kirsty

 

[k4tie-d]

from what i can gather if your in it just for the money your a puppy farmer, if you dont takein to account the welfare of the bitch or the pups or the stud you are a puppy farmer.

but im sure someone else will be able to explain it far better :thumbsup:

 

[Seraphina]

Different people will have slightly different definition of "puppy farmer".

To me puppy farmer is a person who repeatedly produces puppies simply for sale. Often, this person has a "breeding pair" , or several bitches and one dog to cover them all. Puppy farmer has no idea about the breed standard, or have much idea what faults their breeding stock has. The worst type of puppy farmer breeds their bitches every time they come in season, keep them in awful conditions, does not provide adequate nutrition or veterinary care. On the other side of puppy farming spectrum is a person who do pretty much the right thing by the dogs, but just produces them without actual knowledge or concern about genetic health, or breeding to standard.

 

[tinker*]

Different people will have slightly different definition of "puppy farmer".To me puppy farmer is a person who repeatedly  produces puppies simply for sale.  Often, this person has a "breeding pair" , or several bitches and one dog to cover them all.  Puppy farmer has no idea about the breed standard, or have much idea what faults their breeding stock has.  The worst type of puppy farmer breeds their bitches every time they come in season, keep them in awful conditions, does not provide  adequate nutrition or veterinary care.  On the other side of puppy farming spectrum is a person who do pretty much the right thing by the dogs, but just produces them without actual knowledge or concern about genetic health, or breeding to standard.

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"To me puppy farmer is a person who repeatedly produces puppies simply for sale. "

My grandad repeatedly produces puppies for sale but by no means is a "puppy farmer"

he is the president of the German Shepherd society, has wrote books, and the majority of the Kennel clubs breed standard for GSD.

his puppies are always ordered (if that makes sense) basically its a supply and demand i suppose if enough want a Vikkas GSD then he will see if there is a suitable Dog and Bitch to breed with, obviously his main objective is to produce the perfect GS, and with the CC's they have won he probably has at some point, hence the demand for one of his dogs. So id class soemone like himself as a dog breeder.

A farmer is my eyes is someone who dosnt really care for thewelfare of the animals or the quality of teh pup they breed. the pup is seen as hard cash, not as a loving dog.

Also someone who dosnt care for the breed or creating the correct standard of dog.

I think it happens in all breeds, just more heard of in the usual dog breeds

 

[05whippet]

I think everyone will have their own opinons of this as Seraphina said and hopefully this will not descend into another "slanging match" on K9 BUT to me a puppy farmer does not nessecarily have to keep their dogs in terrible conditions or care little for them or even not know the breed standard,in my eyes there are many forms of "puppy farming" and it can and does go on within the show world too as it is a great "smokescreen" to hide behind and also an ideal avenue in which to sell your pups....for example someone who continually breeds litter after litter (and not nessecarily out of the same bitch but from several bitches) year after year and keeps virtually nothing for themselves is in my eyes only in it for the money and the dogs then become a commodity (they may as well be dealing in the second hand car market!!) as they are there to be "farmed" like cattle to produce a living and to me there is no real difference between this type of puppy farmer and the more well known type other than the first type actually keeps their dogs in good condition mainly because they are selling to a different market.

And to answer your other question Reo they exist in whippets...YES! they exist in ALL breeds unfortunately.

 

[tinker*]

I think the differnce is someone who is doing it soley for financial gain, and no other reason

 

[bertha]

When you have someone local who seems to always have whippet puppies, does not show, breeds from their bitches on every season, but only registers every other litter. Sell the registered ones for £550 for dogs! I don't know how much she charges for bitches, does not keep anything.

Four litters a year of six or seven puppies, that's a cool £12,000 approx a year from two bitches that I know of! Not a bad living, all tax free of course.

What beats me, how does she get that money, she is unknown in the whippet world and her bitches are not show quality!

I class that as puppy farming. Her latest venture apparently is chihuahuas, they sell for well over £1.000 a puppy.

:rant:

 

[k4tie-d]

When you have someone local who seems to always have whippet puppies, does not show, breeds from their bitches on every season, but only registers every other litter. Sell the registered ones for £550 for dogs! I don't know how much she charges for bitches, does not keep anything.
Four litters a year of six or seven puppies, that's a cool £12,000 approx a year from two bitches that I know of! Not a bad living, all tax free of course.

What beats me, how does she get that money, she is unknown in the whippet world and her bitches are not show quality!

I class that as puppy farming. Her latest venture apparently is chihuahuas, they sell for well over £1.000 a puppy.

:rant:

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if i hadnt had found this site we would have known nothing about puppy farming and we would have used the paper or epupz to find a pup.

and through the paper we found a puppy farmer and luckly due to being warned on here we realised the signs and ran the opposit way.

but if we hadnt have been on here and learned a little about them i can be almost 90% sure we probabily would have bought from them.

I am so thankfull to all the people on k9 for helping us make the right choice. :thumbsup:

but i think that is how they can sell their pups as people like me who are looking for a first dog and dont know any better believe what they say and buy from them.

 

[whippetmad]

And the same for someone who just been in the breed for five minutes,having five litters all at once in horrible cold living conditions and cross breeding :angry:

 

[saraquele]

I think everyone will have their own opinons of this as Seraphina said and hopefully this will not descend into another "slanging match" on K9 BUT to me a puppy farmer does not nessecarily have to keep their dogs in terrible conditions or care little for them or even not know the breed standard,in my eyes there are many forms of "puppy farming" and it can and does go on within the show world too as it is a great "smokescreen" to hide behind and also an ideal avenue in which to sell your pups....for example someone who continually breeds litter after litter (and not nessecarily out of the same bitch but from several bitches) year after year and keeps virtually nothing for themselves is in my eyes only in it for the money and the dogs then become a commodity (they may as well be dealing in the second hand car market!!) as they are there to be "farmed" like cattle to produce a living and to me there is no real difference between this type of puppy farmer and the more well known type other than the first type actually keeps their dogs in good condition mainly because they are selling to a different market.
And to answer your other question Reo they exist in whippets...YES! they exist in ALL breeds unfortunately.

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totally agree with what you say :thumbsup:

 

[starswift]

i think this thread would be better on gen discussion whippets as most of us show people cannot turn out registered litter after litter, the kennel cleb would not allow it for the record there are people in my area with constant unregistered litters and its the same people so it makes it hard to sell our puppys :rant: they are making money or they would not keep doing it :angry:

 

[louiejoe]

i think this thread would be better on gen discussion whippets as most of us show people cannot turn out registered litter after litter, the kennel cleb would not allow it for the record there are people in my area with constant unregistered litters and its the same people so it makes it hard to sell our puppys :rant: they are making money or they would not keep doing it :angry:

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I disagree slightly with you here Wiggley, as you only have to look in the Breed record Supplements each quarter to see how many litters some people have registered within a three month period :- " ...in whippets and many other breeds :angry: It can make very scary reading at times, and if the kennel club are publishing these records then of course they know about these individuals and their large quantity of pups therefore they are allowing it :rant: .....but then again they (the Kennel Club) are making money out of the registrations, then the transfer of ownerships etc, etc :- "

 

[affieluver]

the kennel club do nothing wiggley there is a lady local to me where my friend went to work in her kennels she consistently breeds westies yorkies maltsese and lhasa apso's at nearly every season or at least when she can never has any health checks like their hips scored or eyes tested and still sells them for extortionate money her maltese fetch £1,000 she never shows them either and the kenel club do nothing :unsure: because she is still allowed to breed as when the council do a check for her license the place is clean and the dogs appear to be well cared for :blink: its ridiculous it really does annoy me because you all do such a good job in showing and breeding to improve the breed and people like her can just breed as and when they feel like it i am new to the showing world and if and when my bitch is ever mated will i only do so with the help of her breeder :thumbsup: i feel a puppy farmer is one such as this lady who has no regard for the health of any puppy she produces and does'nt care where they end up

 

[meddling]

Different people will have slightly different definition of "puppy farmer".To me puppy farmer is a person who repeatedly  produces puppies simply for sale.  Often, this person has a "breeding pair" , or several bitches and one dog to cover them all.  Puppy farmer has no idea about the breed standard, or have much idea what faults their breeding stock has.  The worst type of puppy farmer breeds their bitches every time they come in season, keep them in awful conditions, does not provide  adequate nutrition or veterinary care.  On the other side of puppy farming spectrum is a person who do pretty much the right thing by the dogs, but just produces them without actual knowledge or concern about genetic health, or breeding to standard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

"To me puppy farmer is a person who repeatedly produces puppies simply for sale. "

My grandad repeatedly produces puppies for sale but by no means is a "puppy farmer"

he is the president of the German Shepherd society, has wrote books, and the majority of the Kennel clubs breed standard for GSD.

his puppies are always ordered (if that makes sense) basically its a supply and demand i suppose if enough want a Vikkas GSD then he will see if there is a suitable Dog and Bitch to breed with, obviously his main objective is to produce the perfect GS, and with the CC's they have won he probably has at some point, hence the demand for one of his dogs. So id class soemone like himself as a dog breeder.

A farmer is my eyes is someone who dosnt really care for thewelfare of the animals or the quality of teh pup they breed. the pup is seen as hard cash, not as a loving dog.

Also someone who dosnt care for the breed or creating the correct standard of dog.

I think it happens in all breeds, just more heard of in the usual dog breeds

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Vikkas GSD's :wub: :wub: :wub: used to know one - beautiful Dog :wub:

I have always defined a puppy farmer as the typical news worthy kennel slum, but now realise that the same amount of puppies can be churned out by much more respectable establishments - but still too many of them and often many breeds and usually for the pet market - so no testing for heredatory conditions and little care for the breeding animals

 

[petrezselyem]

It seems that the problem is global. Canine orgainzations profit from registration, so they are pecuniary interested in the high level pedigree producing.

And what is good for their well lined purse, is bad for the kynology. That's it. :'(

 

[urchin]

To me a puppy farmer is someone who breeds in a large scale way, solely as a commercial venture.

The term is also widely used on K9 to have a go at anyone who breeds their dogs in a way that is different from how certain people would do it ; regardless of the number of dogs involved or the conditions in which they are being kept.

 

[seaspot_run]

Here is a direct quote from my puppy sale contract--here we call them "puppy millers" not "puppy farmers" but the concept is the same:

5.  The Buyer will not sell or otherwise transfer any property rights in this whippet or any puppies it should produce to a pet shop, wholesale outlet, or to any breeder who breeds solely to produce pet puppies for sale at profit.  The Buyer accepts that any such transfer of an animal bearing the kennel name of the Breeder would cause irreparable damage to the reputation and standing of the Breeder, and that the Buyer could be held liable for such damage in a court of law.

Breeding solely to produce pet puppies for sale at profit. That's really the definition.

Has nothing to do with whether or not they give decent food, pat them on the head from time to time, or have clean water in front of them at all times.

 

[kris]

Here is a direct quote from my puppy sale contract--here we call them "puppy millers" not "puppy farmers" but the concept is the same:

5.  The Buyer will not sell or otherwise transfer any property rights in this whippet or any puppies it should produce to a pet shop, wholesale outlet, or to any breeder who breeds solely to produce pet puppies for sale at profit.  The Buyer accepts that any such transfer of an animal bearing the kennel name of the Breeder would cause irreparable damage to the reputation and standing of the Breeder, and that the Buyer could be held liable for such damage in a court of law.

Breeding solely to produce pet puppies for sale at profit. That's really the definition.

Has nothing to do with whether or not they give decent food, pat them on the head from time to time, or have clean water in front of them at all times.

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agreed.though i have to say some SHOW people breed a tad more than they need to. also i think that clause in the contract is an excellent one. :thumbsup: ought to make people think twice about breeding from a pup and where they let the pups go as it IS irrepairable damage to a breeders reputation and can be successfully sued for in the courts I think anyone drawing up a contract for puppy sales ought to incorporate this in the terms, its an excellently worded piece

 

[dukie]

All you have to do is read the KC breed record supplements, that will show you who is breeding litter after litter, and yes, puppy farming does happen with whippets, and the fact that JR whippet rescue exists says it all as far as I'm concerned (w00t) (w00t)

 

[saraquele]

in the 9 years i have been involved in rescue i have had 9 whippets in , not bad really , one a year BUT they have mainly been in the last 5 years .

i have 2 old girls with me now , also on another rescue forum i go on was a 16 week pup :angry:

also the dogs that have been on here recently .

when i had my litter the amount of people i had ringing saying they wanted a whippet because they were so "quiet and well behaved " was untrue :rant:

after i told them they were like tazmanian devils on speed :- " and how destructive they were they changed there tunes :- " BUT a bad breeder or puppy farmer just in it for the ££££££ would probably tell them what they want to hear with no thought to the future of the pup .

the kennel club have a lot to answer for , they really dont care how many litters a bitch has or in what time scale , as long as they get there reg fees and transferr of ownerships they just let you get on with it :rant: