Question

[kris]

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i agree with you Sharon.its time the kennel club was made to toe the line by breeders who do have the good of the breed at heart.if they wont regulate litters being born and registered then someone needs to make them do it.we need to get a campaign going to shame them into it.what if people got apetition up at shows and as many people as possible signed it?then we sent them to the kennel club and got publicity in the dog press?maybe get some influential top names to get involved?its not going to stop puppy farming but at least its a step in the right direction every journey starts with a step

 

[ashmoreswhippets]

Hi,iam a new member to k9 so go easy on me l.o.l

I think when you buy a pup with papers it should tell you more info of the dam i.e.her age,how many litters she has had to date, and the age of the bitch when she had the litters,and a total of pup's produced from the dam.

Me personal only breed my whippets when iam wanting a pup for myself,

I never breed a bitch more than twice and if for some reason i sell any old bitchers for whot ever reason i have them done so they want fall in to the wrong hands,i.e puppy farms,beware of dogs that are reg.with the dog lovers reg club D.L.R.C as puppy farms use this club a lot as they will reg anything.

 

[kris]

the so called dog lovers club used to be mayfield kennels which had a terrible name as an outlet for puppy farmers.now its been revamped,different name probably different owner but same old same old under a new guise. what annoys me is these places always have people going in to buy pups.if they only knew whats going on they wouldnt buy from them.these puppy supermarkets need outing to joe public so that they know exactly what goes on behind the scenes.and yes ashmores whippets i agree more info should be on the dog and bitches papers in order to inform the new owner/would be purchaser about just how much breeding is going on at the premises they are buying from.the trouble is the breeders of these so called 'designer puppies' ie mongrels dont register their pups with the kennel club as they arent eligible for registration and they are a major cause of concern to all the animal rescue charities at the moment.i dont suppose these places that register anything for a price would be interested in promoting responsible breeding as thats their lifeblood,so i dont know how you could stop these people from contributing to the unwanted dog problem

 

[jinnyfizz]

Many, many years ago (in the 70s) I bought my first GSD from what I now know to have been a puppy farm. The pups were in plastic barrels in a barn. No sign of any adult GSDs anywhere.

Luckily, Cass was a beautiful, healthy girl and we had many happy years together.

My own definition of a puppy farmer, apart from the obvious genre of someone who is breeding for financial gain only, is that they will sell the pups to anyone who crosses their doorstep with the money - no homecheck, no questions

They don't give diddley squat who the pups go to and, also of concern, I'm sure these puppy farmers don't endorse the bitch registrations to prevent further breeding from them.

If the Kennel Club insisted on all bitches registration certificates being endorsed to prevent registered breeding as a matter of course, I wonder if it would go some way towards stopping these people and also the uninformed owners breeding because "it seemed like a good idea at the time". Genuine breeders could still request removal of the endorsement with the permission of the breeder.

I realise that unregistered litters will still be bred, but maybe that wouldn't be so lucrative for the puppy farmer?

Just a thought......??? :unsure:

 

[starswift]

if i hadnt had found this site we would have known nothing about puppy farming and we would have used the paper or epupz to find a pup.

and through the paper we found a puppy farmer and luckly due to being warned on here we realised the signs and ran the opposit way.

but if we hadnt have been on here and learned a little about them i can be almost 90% sure we probabily would have bought from them.

I am so thankfull to all the people on k9 for helping us make the right choice. :thumbsup:

but i think that is how they can sell their pups as people like me who are looking for a first dog and dont know any better believe what they say and buy from them.

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THERE ARE SOME GOOD BREEDERS WHO ADVERTISE ON E PUPZ AND IN NEWSPAPERS i do myself and after 5 litters in 13 years i am by no means a puppy farmer :blink: there is the odd show person with a litter or two on the go at once and they are so called accredited breaders lol it makes a mockary out of the whole thing so i dont see why we should give the kennel club any more money :rant:

 

[*Lesley*]

I really don't see what the big deal is about epupz I'm sure there must be some genuine sellers and buyers on there, not everyone has the luxury of being surrounded by whippet people, that doesn't mean they should never breed, I'm sure there are good and bad in all places even on here :thumbsup:

The silly thing is you are not allowed to advertise on here even as a long standing member but someone who has never even heard of K9 can advertise a pup on Epupz and a good deal of the time it will end up being advertised on here and being bought by a member :unsure:

 

[posh totty]

I really don't see what the big deal is about epupz I'm sure there must be some genuine sellers and buyers on there, not everyone has the luxury of being surrounded by whippet people, that doesn't mean they should never breed, I'm sure there are good and bad in all places even on here :thumbsup:
The silly thing is you are not allowed to advertise on here even as a long standing member but someone who has never even heard of K9 can advertise a pup on Epupz and a good deal of the time it will end up being advertised on here and being bought by a member    :unsure:

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the whole epupz idea,if you read how they began, is they wanted a central reliable place in which to find healthy well bred puppies themselves? there is a statement on there on how/why they started, there is good and bad EVERYWHERE, the site does state if you find the puppies you view from finding an ad on epupz you are to report and they will be banned from , IMO thats responsible? im sure a person on here with a different breed has found that for themselves when they bought an unhealthy puppy , the breeder is now banned and is stated on the site as banned?

puppy farmers imo are those that breed every season without thought or care for bitch and pups, and to reep as much money as possible from such matings with scant regard to welfare or well being of any dogs in their "care" jmo :thumbsup:

 

[k4tie-d]

if i hadnt had found this site we would have known nothing about puppy farming and we would have used the paper or epupz to find a pup.

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THERE ARE SOME GOOD BREEDERS WHO ADVERTISE ON E PUPZ AND IN NEWSPAPERS i do myself and after 5 litters in 13 years i am by no means a puppy farmer :blink: there is the odd show person with a litter or two on the go at once and they are so called accredited breaders lol it makes a mockary out of the whole thing so i dont see why we should give the kennel club any more money :rant:

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can i just say i didnt mean epupz or the paper where only for farmers what i said was that with out k9s help we would have probabily went with the farmer who called us as we would not have known any better,

the farmer found us through the paper but showed us her epupz add.

as we dont know very many people close to us who have whippets we have had to do all the reserch on them through internet searchs and things like that, but when we decided that we wanted a dog and decided that a whippet was for us we wernt ready to take on a dog so had a good few months of search and learning what was the best thing to do when looking for a pup.

but this is where i think farmers make their money people who dont know anybody with their choice of breed people who decided they want a dog and have thought it trough that the are able to have one and then the first place they would go if you dont know where, is the paper or epupz and i have to say if i had seen the farmers add and not spoken to anyone on here i would have thought that i was buying a top class puppy with the best of breeding but of course that was just clever wording and some down right lies.

i dont see any reason why genuine breeds shouldnt use epupz or the paper but i think from what i have learnt so far is that a lot of genuine breeders dont need to as their pups are taken up before they are even born.

 

[rls22]

Just my two penneth on epupz.

I know of several excellent breeders who advertise their litters through epupz. Just because they are advertising on there does not mean that they will not vet the homes any less thoroughly than those that don't.

There are huge numbers of people out there who have no idea where to start when looking for a puppy and a lot of them will end up at epupz. It doesn't mean that these are going to be bad owners; they will however be more likely to end up with a pup from a disreputable breeder. There are as everyone has said good and bad everywhere.

We have not needed to advertise our litter as they have all been spoken for before the mating. However, it does not mean that I am completely anti epupz; I believe it to be a good source of locating pups given that the buyer does their research into the advertised litter. And I'm sure that the good breeders who are advertising on there vet their prospective puppy buyers just as throughly as we do; in fact I know that they do.

 

[saraquele]

i dont think it matters where a person advertisers , if they are a good breeder they will find good homes for there puppies . :thumbsup:

 

[moonlake]

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the kennel club have a lot to answer for , they really dont care how many litters a bitch has or in what time scale , as long as they get there reg fees and transferr of ownerships they just let you get on with it :rant:

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Kennel Club rule re Control of Registrations

"The General Committee will not accept an application to register a litter when -

(1) The dam has already whelped six litters, or

(2) The dam has already reached the age of 8 years at the time of whelping, or

(3) The dam was under one year old at the time of mating."

Of course there are ways of getting round this but if you have some kind of evidence that someone has broken the rule and write to the Information and Health Dept of the KC, they do follow it up. This is basically what the law says about breeding dogs (but there are different rules for licensed breeders and unlicensed breeders) and I suspect that if the Kennel Club were to change the rule to say, four litters max, it wouldn't be long before someone sued them for loss of earnings since it is legal to breed six litters from a bitch.

Re definition of a puppy farmer - A puppy farmer is someone who breeds more litters than you do - whereas someone who breeds fewer litters than you do is inexperienced and not worth listening to

Gay

www.moonlake.co.uk

 

[05whippet]

i dont think it matters where a person advertisers , if they are a good breeder they will find good homes for there puppies .  :thumbsup:

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I completely agree with that statement 100% sharon!! :thumbsup:

At the end of the day Epupz is still only just a place to advertise,it is no different to a pet shop or a vets or even on the internet on your own webpage....do you honestly think that these unscrupulous sorts are'nt smart and have ALL angles covered?

 

[saraquele]

i dont think it matters where a person advertisers , if they are a good breeder they will find good homes for there puppies .  :thumbsup:

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I completely agree with that statement 100% sharon!! :thumbsup:

At the end of the day Epupz is still only just a place to advertise,it is no different to a pet shop or a vets or even on the internet on your own webpage....do you honestly think that these unscrupulous sorts are'nt smart and have ALL angles covered?

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advertising is advertising wherever it is , so if you advertise in the dog papers its still available for the public to see , your website again on the internet for all to see , so epupz is no different to on here , its a public forum after all .

 

[saraquele]

<snip>

the kennel club have a lot to answer for , they really dont care how many litters a bitch has or in what time scale , as long as they get there reg fees and transferr of ownerships they just let you get on with it :rant:

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Kennel Club rule re Control of Registrations

"The General Committee will not accept an application to register a litter when -

(1) The dam has already whelped six litters, or

(2) The dam has already reached the age of 8 years at the time of whelping, or

(3) The dam was under one year old at the time of mating."

Of course there are ways of getting round this but if you have some kind of evidence that someone has broken the rule and write to the Information and Health Dept of the KC, they do follow it up. This is basically what the law says about breeding dogs (but there are different rules for licensed breeders and unlicensed breeders) and I suspect that if the Kennel Club were to change the rule to say, four litters max, it wouldn't be long before someone sued them for loss of earnings since it is legal to breed six litters from a bitch.

Re definition of a puppy farmer - A puppy farmer is someone who breeds more litters than you do - whereas someone who breeds fewer litters than you do is inexperienced and not worth listening to

Gay

www.moonlake.co.uk

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i personally know of someone in a different breed who mated her bitch at 11 months , gave birth at 13 months and the KC didnt bat an eyelid , also this same bitch has had 5 litters in 3 years , again they dont care :- "

 

[05whippet]

i dont think it matters where a person advertisers , if they are a good breeder they will find good homes for there puppies .  :thumbsup:

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I completely agree with that statement 100% sharon!! :thumbsup:

At the end of the day Epupz is still only just a place to advertise,it is no different to a pet shop or a vets or even on the internet on your own webpage....do you honestly think that these unscrupulous sorts are'nt smart and have ALL angles covered?

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advertising is advertising wherever it is , so if you advertise in the dog papers its still available for the public to see , your website again on the internet for all to see , so epupz is no different to on here , its a public forum after all .

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Exactly!!

And when I used the word "you" in my first post regarding unscrupulous people I did'nt mean you personally Sharon I was meaning generally.

 

[saraquele]

i dont think it matters where a person advertisers , if they are a good breeder they will find good homes for there puppies .  :thumbsup:

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I completely agree with that statement 100% sharon!! :thumbsup:

At the end of the day Epupz is still only just a place to advertise,it is no different to a pet shop or a vets or even on the internet on your own webpage....do you honestly think that these unscrupulous sorts are'nt smart and have ALL angles covered?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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advertising is advertising wherever it is , so if you advertise in the dog papers its still available for the public to see , your website again on the internet for all to see , so epupz is no different to on here , its a public forum after all .

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Exactly!!

And when I used the word "you" in my first post regarding unscrupulous people I did'nt mean you personally Sharon I was meaning generally.

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lol i know :thumbsup:

 

[whippetmad]

I reckon the Kennel Club should reduced the number of litters they have from six to four litter.

Bitches should be at least 18 months old instead of 12 months.

But you are still going to get ones that will have litters of unregistered litters.

 

[affieluver]

I reckon the Kennel Club should reduced the number of litters they have from six to four litter.Bitches should be at least 18 months old instead of 12 months.

But you are still going to get ones that will have litters of unregistered litters.

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OMG! i didnt know the kennel club allowed bitches to be mated at 12months i thought it was 18 poor dogs

 

[BlackMoon Magic]

this is so sad i would never and have never bred a bitch under 2 years of age and have never let them have more than 4 litters in a lifetime! Its sad that the kennel clubs don't care and let people do such horrible things to their dogs.....

 

[moonlake]

<snip>

the kennel club have a lot to answer for , they really dont care how many litters a bitch has or in what time scale , as long as they get there reg fees and transferr of ownerships they just let you get on with it :rant:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Kennel Club rule re Control of Registrations

"The General Committee will not accept an application to register a litter when -

(1) The dam has already whelped six litters, or

(2) The dam has already reached the age of 8 years at the time of whelping, or

(3) The dam was under one year old at the time of mating."

Of course there are ways of getting round this but if you have some kind of evidence that someone has broken the rule and write to the Information and Health Dept of the KC, they do follow it up. This is basically what the law says about breeding dogs (but there are different rules for licensed breeders and unlicensed breeders) and I suspect that if the Kennel Club were to change the rule to say, four litters max, it wouldn't be long before someone sued them for loss of earnings since it is legal to breed six litters from a bitch.

<snip>

Gay

www.moonlake.co.uk

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i personally know of someone in a different breed who mated her bitch at 11 months , gave birth at 13 months and the KC didnt bat an eyelid , also this same bitch has had 5 litters in 3 years , again they dont care :- "

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They probably don't know! You should write to the Kennel Club quoting the relevant breed supplement where it is published and drawing their attention to it.

All records nowadays are done automatically by computers - nobody actually reads through them and says OMG that's not allowed. They depend on someone who cares picking up this kind of thing. If they spent the money on employing dog knowledgeable people to check their records, guess who'd be paying - us. I can't imagine what registrations would cost if they were monitored by humans and I don't want to find out

As for saying they should make the rule for fewer litters from older bitches, as I pointed out before, they can't do that if it is legal to do it - the law has to be changed first. The only thing we can do is make the rules more stringent for accredited breeders. If breed clubs write to the accredited breeders' scheme (not directly to the Kennel Club) and ask them to apply the clubs' code of ethics re ages of bitches and numbers of litters, I have been told they will probably do it. At least that would be a start.

There's no point in ranting about the Kennel Club - you have to make your opinions known *politely*. They can't guess what you think.

Gay

www.moonlake.co.uk