Racing/lure coursing

[*Lesley*]

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So in that case racers/lure coursers who want to show at crufts in the class will have to go to shows and qualify, then on the day will be competing against show breds who have also qualified, I hope the judge on the day likes both types as they look very different to me :unsure:

When's your next show Mark

And I hope it doesnt interfere with the racing

 

[Mark Roberts]

Dont know cLesley, you'll have to ask Beaker she's in charge of the showing side but it will have to fit around Mo's racing.

 

[dessie]

as the dogs are judge at the BSFA against a score card and not against itys running partner there is only realy 1 winner for each breed and thats the dog that scores the most points when its 2 runs are added together, so realy only 1 dog would qualify from each BSFA meeting?.

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not another point about the way the BSFA do it (but i'm not actualy knocking the BSFA just pointing somthing out) is that at their meetings the owner chooses who they run with not the organisers so theres nothing to stop you from taking your show bred dog there that had been placed at a champs show and so qualified for crufts and also taking a naibours 15lb overweight 12 year old half crippled whippet and running it against yours twice in the day? would this then realy count as a genuine win and so give you the right to show in the racing/LC class at crufts NOT IMO

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You might say you are not knocking the BSFA but this is certainly a cynical and not very accurate view. As a BSFA judge and founder member, I would like to put my point of view across now.

The BSFA is a club recognised by the Kennel Club and, indeed, if you only lure course your dog it is the only club award they would recognise to be eligible for the R/C class at Crufts. It was set up for all KC registered sighthounds to compete at. Meetings are held monthly from March to September/October and although you have to be a member to run your hounds and a discount is offered on pre-meeting entries, you can turn up on the day and run your hound, it is not an elitest or invitation only club. Each new dog has to be registered with the Club for the great amount of £1.00 but then its details are recorded so certainly qualifications could be checked by the KC if so required. As far as I am aware we have never not let anyone run their hound, however late they turn up and we have had up to 90+ dogs at some meetings but each hound is guaranteed two runs.

It is of no advantage to run a dog in the manner that Mark suggests against an ill-matched partner because although the dogs are scored against certain criteria, they are also judged against one another so the dog that crosses the finishing line first is not necessarily the winner and if dogs have a solo run their score, even though it may be good enough to win the class, does not count towards BoB. Certainly, when I am judging, if such an ill matched pair were run together I would mark my score sheet to the effect that, to all intents, the better dog had a 'solo' run.

The scores are not added together but it is the best score from the two runs that is counted.

Like any judging, it is subjective to how the particular judge interprets the criteria. For instance, although we are given the time after each run, I don't take it into account particularly because it is not all about speed as far as I am concerned but about accuracy and stamina. The scores will be levelled out because if a dog visibly slows up towards the end of a run, then the stamina score will be lower than that of the dog who keeps going. Another example is agility. I would score a dog higher that fell, rolled and got up and carried on running without losing the lure ........ I think that is pretty agile! Other judges may think the dog should not have fallen in the first place and mark it lower on agility.

I personally prefer the method that the BSFA have of the members choosing which dog runs with which because I think it is fairer on the dogs. It has worked well enough of the years and I have never heard any moans about it. What does annoy me if I am asked if I have a spare dog to run (which I often have) is if people are not honest about their dog's ability because I will tell them exactly what my dog is capable of and expect them to do the same. I will not let my dogs run with something that will run the legs off of them so they lose the lure and get disappointed/frustated (because we all know what happens when Angel loses the lure! LOL!!!). As far as I am concerned it is their day out and they should have as much fun as possible. Whether they do well in the competition or not is irrelevant.

 

[Joanna]

Having entered LC under the stake system, I must say I quite like the scoring as it does seem to be quite a fair system that takes into account different ages and strengths/weaknesses of certain dogs. From my own point of view, my show-bred is better at it than the racing dog who just goes hell for leather and overshoots the turns, rolls over, does somersaults (yes Caroline, agile, but dim :- " ). I would say that actually, lure coursing is the one discipline that does show the ability of all sorts of whippets as it isn't purely down to speed, but requires fitness, agility, stamina, and intelligence.

I am interested to know Dessie, if you would change the criteria for a the RC group with regard to the lure coursing component.

It is interesting that you say scoring is subjective, yet there are quite detailed criteria for marking. There is always more than one judge though isn't there? Have you found that you score vastly differently from your colleague on the scaffold?

Jo

 

[Millie]

Dessie here on Millie's pc!!!

Having entered LC under the stake system, I must say I quite like the scoring as it does seem to be quite a fair system that takes into account different ages and strengths/weaknesses of certain dogs. From my own point of view, my show-bred is better at it than the racing dog who just goes hell for leather and overshoots the turns, rolls over, does somersaults (yes Caroline, agile, but dim :- " ).
That, to my way of thinking, is where  'racing the lure' rather than 'coursing' it comes into effect and a fall such as you describe  I would not take into account on my scoring as being agile, I did state where a dog falls, rolls and gets up running without losing the lure!!!

I would say that actually, lure coursing is the one discipline that does show the ability of all sorts of whippets as it isn't purely down to speed, but requires fitness, agility, stamina, and intelligence.

Quite so!!

I am interested to know Dessie, if you would change the criteria for a the RC group with regard to the lure coursing component.

Firstly, let's get the terminology right!!  It is a R/C class not a group and yes I would like the definition for eligibility for the class to be altered or clarified as, at present, it does not make sense.  As far as I can remember it states to have won a course with the BSFA but that is not how our system works.  As I have already stated, there are 4 classes for each breed from which the BoB is declared and then the highest scoring BoB wins Best in Field.  The KC need to understand the scoring and decide what award gives the eligibility for the class.

It is interesting that you say scoring is subjective, yet there are quite detailed criteria for marking. There is always more than one judge though isn't there? Have you found that you score vastly differently from your colleague on the scaffold?

Yes, there is a criteria for each element but, as with show judging, we all interpret them differently and what one person places more importance on, another may not.  Personally, I just mark my own score sheet and do not tend to discuss it with my co-judge.  I also tend to mark fairly low to middling because otherwise if you get a really good pair of dogs, you have nowhere to go.  Other judges might mark all scores higher and this is why at different meetings you get some very high scoring overall runs and at others they seem lower.

Jo

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Hope I have explained myself clearly!!!

 

[Joanna]

Yes, thanks............Very interesting, and actually, I had no idea you were a judge until now 8)

I would interpret a course as just that, one of the two run within a meeting.

 

[TC]

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Didn't you believe me then (w00t)

At least it seems like they're able to answer this one a bit quicker now :- "

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Don't you start getting all girlie,

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(w00t) Me - Girlie, that's a first :- " 8) (w00t)

So, are you judging on Sunday then :- "

 

[aslan]

a badly put together dog wouldn't be able to run correctly let alone fast

I'll drink to that, Hannah!  

They can still run fast with curly tails, flying ears and one bollock though Lana :lol: :teehee: :lol:

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That I have never doubted.