Racing/lure coursing

[BeeJay]

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I've just gone and had a good look at the Crufts schedule and I think that I've been confused about the qualifier.

Under the section Qualifications for Entry for Dogs there is no mention of the special racing coursing classes for whippets and greyhounds BUT there is for the working gundogs and bloodhounds. Because their awards are recognised by the KC and racing/coursing awards aren't.

I now understand why the BSFA are trying to get their lure courser of merit title recognised by the KC. I wonder why the racing folks have never done this with their WCRCh and VC titles. Or have they?

Then comes the Definitions of Classes and there is mention of the special racing and coursing classes under there which explains how to qualify for these classes.

So yep I've been mistaken and the dogs do have to qualify normally and then additionally qualify for the racing classes.

I do know people who have entered their whippets at Crufts in these classes purely based on their performance on the field and NOT in the ring.

 

[Strike Whippets]

Just re read the schedule and I think quite a few of us are very confused :b ......... Yes it would seem that the racing class is for dogs that have qualified correctly ........I wonder how many other dogs have entered incorrectly

 

[~JO~]

Yes I think we are all there now - I am sure this is correct. Quite worrying though really that have probably been quite a few dogs entered into this class over the years that haven't qualified

 

[Strike Whippets]

Yes I was one of them :b ........I got told by very experienced show people that all we had to do is win a club race :- " ........ Oh well off to ring craft

 

[chelynnah]

i'll swing round yours around 7.20 monday night to pick Mo up and take her to ringcraft 
least i could do

Yes please Becka, and I agree its the least you could do LOL.

Hi BJ it was me that wrote questioning the elegibility of 2 of the dogs taking part in the racing & Coursing Classes (1 dog 1 bitch) i'll pm you more details regarding who said what.

Right to deal with BJ's Question regarding qualifying.

IMO there should be no minimum standard regarding race level reached to qualify, BUT IMO the dog concerned should be a regular at a racing club whether club/open/or champs racing or be a regular lure courser.

the class states for racing/lure coursing whippets it doesnt say fast ones so To me any dog that races on a regular basis should be able to take part regardless of its breeding (show/race/pet/working ect)

Ok heres my answer to the questions in order.

Should they regularly compete but not necessarily win? YES

Should they have won a race or course? NO (just compeated regularly)

Should they have won a group or the whole course? NO

Should they have won at club, or open level RACED AT EITHER (but not nesseraly won)

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By that definition and qualification then for the race/coursing classes, any dog who COMPETES REGULARLY in shows should then automatically qualify for entry into the regular classes at Crufts! Why have one set of standards (winning certain places in certain classes) for one type of dog and then NO standard for the other?

That's really taking the mick IMO. They should earn their way in just as show breds need to earn their qualification.

Wendy

 

[Mark Roberts]

I wonder why the racing folks have never done this with their WCRCh and VC titles. Or have they?

it has been looked into several times by the WCRA regarding getting the WCRch recognised, not sure of the in's/out's but it has been looked into a few times.

Paul or Marcus will have the full details.

 

[Strike Whippets]

The kc don't recognised racing titles ......but I think its about time they did like they do in the gundogs .....Ch's, field trial champs etc .......

 

[Mark Roberts]

I remember several years ago it being looked into and the KC wernt interested in recognising Rch's but they did say it ever they were that they would need to win 3 champs to be a Rch like the show dogs need to win 3 cc's.

So am I allowed to play in your showing game or should I take my ball home.

 

[Strike Whippets]

Awww 3 thats a bit mean .......We only have 4 champs races each year

 

[masta]

i'll swing round yours around 7.20 monday night to pick Mo up and take her to ringcraft 
least i could do

Yes please Becka, and I agree its the least you could do LOL.

Hi BJ it was me that wrote questioning the elegibility of 2 of the dogs taking part in the racing & Coursing Classes (1 dog 1 bitch) i'll pm you more details regarding who said what.

Right to deal with BJ's Question regarding qualifying.

IMO there should be no minimum standard regarding race level reached to qualify, BUT IMO the dog concerned should be a regular at a racing club whether club/open/or champs racing or be a regular lure courser.

the class states for racing/lure coursing whippets it doesnt say fast ones so To me any dog that races on a regular basis should be able to take part regardless of its breeding (show/race/pet/working ect)

Ok heres my answer to the questions in order.

Should they regularly compete but not necessarily win? YES

Should they have won a race or course? NO (just compeated regularly)

Should they have won a group or the whole course? NO

Should they have won at club, or open level RACED AT EITHER (but not nesseraly won)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

By that definition and qualification then for the race/coursing classes, any dog who COMPETES REGULARLY in shows should then automatically qualify for entry into the regular classes at Crufts! Why have one set of standards (winning certain places in certain classes) for one type of dog and then NO standard for the other?

That's really taking the mick IMO. They should earn their way in just as show breds need to earn their qualification.

Wendy

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show breds earn their qualificaton by being judged by show judges using the breed(show) standard would the racing/L.coursing class have judges who are race/L.course savvy or would our dogs need to put on 10lb and grow another 5" and why are they taking the "mick" you guys work hard showing your dogs to gain entry into crufts show classes i work hard travelling the country lure corsing and racing my dogs, is that not considered worthy entitlement to then entry my dogs into a class designated to racing coursing whippets according to your post you want me to race /L.course and show against show dogs being judged by a show judge and then to cap it all compete in a "special/novelty class" who's taking the "mick"

 

[Paula Roberts]

No your judged by the BREED standard Patrick. :- " but imo a racer or lure coursing judge would be better to judge this class. :thumbsup:

 

[quintessence]

I remember several years ago it being looked into and the KC wernt interested in recognising Rch's but they did say it ever they were that they would need to win 3 champs to be a Rch like the show dogs need to win 3 cc's.
So am I allowed to play in your showing game or should I take my ball home.

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Of course you can play, lots of us are starting the qualifying route again come and join us and bring your ball then we can throw it for the dogs to chase after judging. (I know yours will get to the ball first Mark but I'll bet mine has the silliest face :clown: )

Jenny

 

[~JO~]

show breds earn their qualificaton by being judged by show judges using the breed(show) standard would the racing/L.coursing class have judges who are race/L.course savvy or would our dogs need to put on 10lb and grow another 5" and why are they taking the "mick" you guys work hard showing your dogs to gain entry into crufts show classes i work hard travelling the country lure corsing and racing my dogs, is that not considered worthy entitlement to then entry my dogs  into a class designated to racing coursing whippets according to your post you want me to race /L.course and show against show dogs being judged by a show judge and then to cap it all compete in a "special/novelty class" who's taking the "mick"

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(w00t) (w00t) But if you want to enter a the top DOG SHOW you need to be qualified from a DOG SHOW not from lure coursing or racing. If you want to exhibit your dogs then enter the racing/coursing classes at other shows which put them on, you just can't expect to enter into the top show in the country without having qualified at a show first!!

Why should you be given the right to get into Crufts without having qualified, in the same way I wouldn't expect to enter your racing championship without having qualified either!!!

By the way our dogs aren't all 5" taller than yours - now I think you are just being insulting in what so far has been a very interesting and well-balanced discussion

 

[masta]

sorry if you felt my post was insulting although it beats me why you should be insulted by saying show breds tend to be taller?

 

[~elizabeth~]

I still think it is completely bizarre that theoretically the winner from the racing/coursing class could win the CC -which I think is completely wrong when they haven't qualified from a Champ dog show to enter the to dog show of the year.

But if the dog in question was genuinely thought to be good enough for a CC, by the same person judging all the other classes, what difference should this make, why should that be a threat to anyone? :wacko:

Surely the point of all canine competition is to evaluate dogs and select those with the best qualities to pass on to the next generation, and classes which take into consideration both athletic and aesthetic qualities should be of particular value in this case.

 

[Mark Roberts]

(I know yours will get to the ball first Mark

Wouldn't bet on it :lol:

Come On Beaker, sort out getting us Qualified. :thumbsup:

 

[aslan]

Masta - I think perhaps because you exaggerated it by 5 inches. I've yet to see a 25 inch whippet (and I've been to America) and I hope I never do.

My opinion, though it may not be worth much because I don't live there, is this:

Racers have to understand that if they are going to enter this class they are going to be judged by the standard like any other dog because they are entering a SHOW not a race. The class isn't to judge how good a racer/LCer the dog is but how well he fits the standard.

Racing/LC class dogs should qualify by competing regularly at racing/LC. How you could establish what "regularly" is, I'm not sure, but someone could work that out.

I don't think they should have to also qualify by winning a 'normal' class at a normal champ show. It is sadly true that under many judges the racers would have to carry more weight to be competitive in the normal classes. This would be difficult to manage within their training program for racing or coursing, and I think would make it unfair. From what I can gather this racing/LC class is not held at all other champ shows throughout the year? If it were, I would say that they should qualify for Crufts by being a regular racer/LCer AND gaining a place in this racing/LC class at some other show during the year.

The winner of the racing/LC class at Crufts it appears, IS eligible (and rightly so) to compete for the CC (as long it is not beaten in any other class).

The judges need to be educated not to penalise dogs from the racing/LC class (amongst the other winners in the CC line up) for their race condition. The anatomy can still be seen, (and I would think even more clearly with less padding ) and it should be conceivable and acceptable to all that a dog from this class could possibly win the CC.

I would encourage racers and lure coursers to get out there and have a go - keep at it - show your dogs in their race condition and work towards education that they should be acceptable in a show ring in that condition.

 

[~JO~]

I still think it is completely bizarre that theoretically the winner from the racing/coursing class could win the CC -which I think is completely wrong when they haven't qualified from a Champ dog show to enter the to dog show of the year.

But if the dog in question was genuinely thought to be good enough for a CC, by the same person judging all the other classes, what difference should this make, why should that be a threat to anyone? :wacko:

It wouldn't matter at any other Champ show but Crufts is meant to be a show that only has dogs exhibited which have already been successful in the show-ring.

Surely the point of all canine competition is to evaluate dogs and select those with the best qualities to pass on to the next generation, and classes which take into consideration both athletic and aesthetic qualities should be of particular value in this case.

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Exactly right Elizabeth apart from you missed out the fact they are judged to the breed standard (or the judges interpretation of it). Yes but Crufts is a show for which you must be qualified.

I think these classes are valuable but the dog must also be qualified from a Champ show too or they need to severly tighten up the regulations. Just competing regularly in my opinion is just not good enough. Many show people compete 'regularly' it doesn't mean they get to enter the other classes at Crufts.

Masta - the reason your post is a little bit insulting is the '5" above'. If most of your dogs (male) are say 19" then I think you would be hard pushed to ever find a 24" whippet in the ring.

 

[~elizabeth~]

Exactly right Elizabeth apart from you missed out the fact they are judged to the breed standard (or the judges interpretation of it).  Yes but Crufts is a show for which you must be qualified.

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Yes, but as Millie pointed out earlier the breed standard is actually a somewhat subjective matter, so I'm not really sure of its true value if it can be bent to cover the degree of variation it currently does. :wacko:

 

[~elizabeth~]

I don't think they should have to also qualify by winning a 'normal' class at a normal champ show.  It is sadly true that under many judges the racers would have to carry more weight to be competitive in the normal classes.  This would be difficult to manage within their training program for racing or coursing, and I think would make it unfair.  From what I can gather this racing/LC class is not held at all other champ shows throughout the year?  If it were, I would say that they should qualify for Crufts by being a regular racer/LCer AND gaining a place in this racing/LC class at some other show during the year.

Agree totally Lana :thumbsup: