Racing/lure coursing

[~JO~]

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I don't think they should have to also qualify by winning a 'normal' class at a normal champ show.  It is sadly true that under many judges the racers would have to carry more weight to be competitive in the normal classes.  This would be difficult to manage within their training program for racing or coursing, and I think would make it unfair.  From what I can gather this racing/LC class is not held at all other champ shows throughout the year?  If it were, I would say that they should qualify for Crufts by being a regular racer/LCer AND gaining a place in this racing/LC class at some other show during the year.

Agree totally Lana :thumbsup:

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I think having it at as a qualifying class at other shows may be the way to go...

I believe there is this class at thw Whippet Champ show but it is not a qualifier.

 

[~JO~]

Exactly right Elizabeth apart from you missed out the fact they are judged to the breed standard (or the judges interpretation of it).  Yes but Crufts is a show for which you must be qualified.

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Yes, but as Millie pointed out earlier the breed standard is actually a somewhat subjective matter, so I'm not really sure of its true value if it can be bent to cover the degree of variation it currently does. :wacko:

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Hmmm I know what you are saying but it does have lots of valid points, it's just that as we all know personal interpretation can vary so much. I don't think it is being intentionally 'bent'.

If you read the breed standard and I did the same and drew a whippet which we though represented each point in that standard I am sure they would be very different - and that is the joy of showing and judging!!!! :lol:

 

[~JO~]

I also would like to say that at most Champ shows there aren't just 'show-breds' - Both my boys are half show lines and half coursing lines.

Whippets are not so far apart that we can clearly separately classify the different types.

 

[TC]

OMG, I go to the beach for the morning and look what hapens (w00t)

The good news is.....The man from the KC phoned back :thumbsup:

The bad news is......He's asked for another day as the person he needs to speak to is off today :angry:

I can't believe it, who would have thought an answer was so hard to obtain :wacko:

I wonder if Happy Humber can provide us with a copy of their letter

 

[chelynnah]

i'll swing round yours around 7.20 monday night to pick Mo up and take her to ringcraft 
least i could do

Yes please Becka, and I agree its the least you could do LOL.

Hi BJ it was me that wrote questioning the elegibility of 2 of the dogs taking part in the racing & Coursing Classes (1 dog 1 bitch) i'll pm you more details regarding who said what.

Right to deal with BJ's Question regarding qualifying.

IMO there should be no minimum standard regarding race level reached to qualify, BUT IMO the dog concerned should be a regular at a racing club whether club/open/or champs racing or be a regular lure courser.

the class states for racing/lure coursing whippets it doesnt say fast ones so To me any dog that races on a regular basis should be able to take part regardless of its breeding (show/race/pet/working ect)

Ok heres my answer to the questions in order.

Should they regularly compete but not necessarily win? YES

Should they have won a race or course? NO (just compeated regularly)

Should they have won a group or the whole course? NO

Should they have won at club, or open level RACED AT EITHER (but not nesseraly won)

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By that definition and qualification then for the race/coursing classes, any dog who COMPETES REGULARLY in shows should then automatically qualify for entry into the regular classes at Crufts! Why have one set of standards (winning certain places in certain classes) for one type of dog and then NO standard for the other?

That's really taking the mick IMO. They should earn their way in just as show breds need to earn their qualification.

Wendy

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show breds earn their qualificaton by being judged by show judges using the breed(show) standard would the racing/L.coursing class have judges who are race/L.course savvy or would our dogs need to put on 10lb and grow another 5" and why are they taking the "mick" you guys work hard showing your dogs to gain entry into crufts show classes i work hard travelling the country lure corsing and racing my dogs, is that not considered worthy entitlement to then entry my dogs into a class designated to racing coursing whippets according to your post you want me to race /L.course and show against show dogs being judged by a show judge and then to cap it all compete in a "special/novelty class" who's taking the "mick"

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Basically - please read my post in the context of the post it was in reply to.

Mark stated it shouldn't be on placing in races, it should just be based on participating in races.

It's taking the mick if all they have to do is race - not even win - which is what Mark's post was saying - that all they need to do is prove they race regularly.

So if we who show have to PLACE in certain classes in order to enter Crufts, then if the racers have a different rule, it should still be about placing at certain events and EARNING the right to enter Crufts. Not just tha they race.

If all they have to do is just enter a set number of races each year and not actually place anywhere, while the show dogs have to place, then THAT is taking the mick.

I work hard travelling the country with my dogs too, and even so one didn't place high enough this year to qualify... So just travelling the country to show OR race shouldn't mean that either should qualify.

I don't have a problem with racers earning their place via places designated at racing (winning a meet etc...). But to state all they have to do is race, well then by comparison all a show dog should have to do is show.

Wendy

 

[TC]

i'll swing round yours around 7.20 monday night to pick Mo up and take her to ringcraft 
least i could do

Yes please Becka, and I agree its the least you could do LOL.

Hi BJ it was me that wrote questioning the elegibility of 2 of the dogs taking part in the racing & Coursing Classes (1 dog 1 bitch) i'll pm you more details regarding who said what.

Right to deal with BJ's Question regarding qualifying.

IMO there should be no minimum standard regarding race level reached to qualify, BUT IMO the dog concerned should be a regular at a racing club whether club/open/or champs racing or be a regular lure courser.

the class states for racing/lure coursing whippets it doesnt say fast ones so To me any dog that races on a regular basis should be able to take part regardless of its breeding (show/race/pet/working ect)

Ok heres my answer to the questions in order.

Should they regularly compete but not necessarily win? YES

Should they have won a race or course? NO (just compeated regularly)

Should they have won a group or the whole course? NO

Should they have won at club, or open level RACED AT EITHER (but not nesseraly won)

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By that definition and qualification then for the race/coursing classes, any dog who COMPETES REGULARLY in shows should then automatically qualify for entry into the regular classes at Crufts! Why have one set of standards (winning certain places in certain classes) for one type of dog and then NO standard for the other?

That's really taking the mick IMO. They should earn their way in just as show breds need to earn their qualification.

Wendy

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show breds earn their qualificaton by being judged by show judges using the breed(show) standard would the racing/L.coursing class have judges who are race/L.course savvy or would our dogs need to put on 10lb and grow another 5" and why are they taking the "mick" you guys work hard showing your dogs to gain entry into crufts show classes i work hard travelling the country lure corsing and racing my dogs, is that not considered worthy entitlement to then entry my dogs into a class designated to racing coursing whippets according to your post you want me to race /L.course and show against show dogs being judged by a show judge and then to cap it all compete in a "special/novelty class" who's taking the "mick"

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It's taking the mick if all they have to do is race - not even win - which is what Mark's post was saying. It should just be that they race regularly.

So if we who show have to PLACE in certain classes in order to enter Crufts, then if the racers have a different rule, it should still be about placing at certain events and EARNING the right to enter Crufts. Not just tha they race.

If all they have to do is just enter a set number of races each year and not actually place anywhere, while the show dogs have to place, then THAT is taking the mick.

I don't have a problem with racers earning their place via places designated at racing (winning a meet etc...). But to state all they have to do is race, well then by comparison all a show dog should have to do is show.

Wendy

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This is what I was saying yesterday Wendy :thumbsup:

It's like just entering lots of shows including open and companion ones, and even if we never get placed, we can still enter crufts, simply because we've regularly attended shows :wacko:

 

[quintessence]

OMG, I go to the beach for the morning and look what hapens  (w00t)
The good news is.....The man from the KC phoned back  :thumbsup:

The bad news is......He's asked for another day as the person he needs to speak to is off today  :angry:

I can't believe it, who would have thought an answer was so hard to obtain  :wacko:

I wonder if Happy Humber can provide us with a copy of their letter 

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Perhaps the man from the Kennel Club might like to read the Crufts Schedule cos it's all in there.

 

[~JO~]

OMG, I go to the beach for the morning and look what hapens  (w00t)
The good news is.....The man from the KC phoned back  :thumbsup:

The bad news is......He's asked for another day as the person he needs to speak to is off today  :angry:

I can't believe it, who would have thought an answer was so hard to obtain  :wacko:

I wonder if Happy Humber can provide us with a copy of their letter 

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​

Perhaps the man from the Kennel Club might like to read the Crufts Schedule cos it's all in there.

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:lol:

 

[BeeJay]

>Perhaps the man from the Kennel Club might like to read the Crufts Schedule cos it's all in there.

:thumbsup: :teehee: :lol:

 

[TC]

OMG, I go to the beach for the morning and look what hapens  (w00t)
The good news is.....The man from the KC phoned back  :thumbsup:

The bad news is......He's asked for another day as the person he needs to speak to is off today  :angry:

I can't believe it, who would have thought an answer was so hard to obtain  :wacko:

I wonder if Happy Humber can provide us with a copy of their letter 

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​

Perhaps the man from the Kennel Club might like to read the Crufts Schedule cos it's all in there.

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(w00t) (w00t) I've been saying this for the last half a dozen pages (w00t) (w00t)

 

[Mark Roberts]

Masta - I think perhaps because you exaggerated it by 5 inches. I've yet to see a 25 inch whippet

Theres a 24 1/2" KC whippet owned by a lad on Huntinglife web site. (show bred sort of) i'll try and find the details of its breeding again.

 

[Mark Roberts]

My opinion, though it may not be worth much because I don't live there, is this:
Racers have to understand that if they are going to enter this class they are going to be judged by the standard like any other dog because they are entering a SHOW not a race. The class isn't to judge how good a racer/LCer the dog is but how well he fits the standard.

Racing/LC class dogs should qualify by competing regularly at racing/LC. How you could establish what "regularly" is, I'm not sure, but someone could work that out.

I don't think they should have to also qualify by winning a 'normal' class at a normal champ show. It is sadly true that under many judges the racers would have to carry more weight to be competitive in the normal classes. This would be difficult to manage within their training program for racing or coursing, and I think would make it unfair. From what I can gather this racing/LC class is not held at all other champ shows throughout the year? If it were, I would say that they should qualify for Crufts by being a regular racer/LCer AND gaining a place in this racing/LC class at some other show during the year.

The winner of the racing/LC class at Crufts it appears, IS eligible (and rightly so) to compete for the CC (as long it is not beaten in any other class).

The judges need to be educated not to penalise dogs from the racing/LC class (amongst the other winners in the CC line up) for their race condition. The anatomy can still be seen, (and I would think even more clearly with less padding  ) and it should be conceivable and acceptable to all that a dog from this class could possibly win the CC.

I would encourage racers and lure coursers to get out there and have a go - keep at it - show your dogs in their race condition and work towards education that they should be acceptable in a show ring in that condition.

Great post Lana, Youir views are always valid :thumbsup:

Out of all the people who have replied to this thread how many of you actualy had or have had a dog in the racing/LC class? (I know Beaker, Angela, Liz Dessie anymore?) there the views i was realy after the people that actualy enter the classes.

AS for the Kennel club not being able to give a definative answer? well I wonder why, tommorow the person needed (as obviously only 1 person knows the rules :- " ) will have left the country or been arrested or maybe even have a tummy aich? whats the betting they side step giving an answer for fear of backlash from either camp?.

 

[Mark Roberts]

Ok not sure if you will be able to view the link without becoming a member so i'll hightlight the dogs pedigree that I refered to that was 24 1/2".

his owner wrote that his KC whippet was 14 months old and measured 24 1/2" at the shoulder (theres some pics if you can view without joining)

His Sire is Jendale Nightowl who's lines go back to Ch Oakbark Mane Attraction and Flarepath Eridon, Pencloe Dutch Gold.

His dams Crystal Starlets who's pedigree includs Avismar lines, Towercrest Lines and Sooty sam (2 lines)

24 1/2" whippet click here.

 

[TC]

Out of all the people who have replied to this thread how many of you actualy had or have had a dog in the racing/LC class? (I know Beaker, Angela, Liz Dessie anymore?) there the views i was realy after the people that actualy enter the classes.

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I'm afraid I wasn't able to enter in that class, as although my dog has won his class at a BSFA meet, and plenty of races, he wasn't qualified to enter Crufts :- "

 

[Mark Roberts]

I'm afraid I wasn't able to enter in that class, as although my dog has won his class at a BSFA meet, and plenty of races, he wasn't qualified to enter Crufts

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Not good enough eh.

Only Joking :thumbsup:

 

[Mark Roberts]

I think this threads been very informative, I think weve managed to get through it (on the whole) without anyone resorting to slagging the otheres dogs of ie:show dogs are fat & slow or race dogs are skinny/ugly (which obviously we all knows not true anyway :thumbsup: )

Just shows we can all debate/descuss things without it having to degenerate into a war of words and i'll feeling.

 

[TC]

I'm afraid I wasn't able to enter in that class, as although my dog has won his class at a BSFA meet, and plenty of races, he wasn't qualified to enter Crufts

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Not good enough eh.

Only Joking :thumbsup:

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(w00t) Very funny Mr Roberts!

I've never entered him in a champ show :thumbsup:

 

[Mark Roberts]

Youve got to admit this has been a very good well debated topic.

 

[TC]

Youve got to admit this has been a very good well debated topic.

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Maybe 8)

Although I do feel your post re the 24.5" whippet may have been a bit naughty, it's not like there aren't whippets bred that are too small to race is it :- "

No, I do think it's been good, it would just be very nice to get to the bottom of it all :thumbsup:

 

[Mark Roberts]

Although I do feel your post re the 24.5"

I only posted that as someone had said you dont get show bred whippets that big?.

The dog in question is pretty well show bred.