Show Question?.

[Mark Roberts]

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i'm not asking what happens we all know WHAT HAPPENS.

i'm asking why they call it those names.

 

[beaker]

then that would mean that 1st is the ONLY place awarded

But what about the VCH would that not get 2nd

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:wacko: how did you get to VHC coming second :wacko:

 

[Mark Roberts]

how did you get to VHC coming second

because you disqualified 1st-3rd?

MY QUEST FOR THE ANSWER CONTINUES :thumbsup:

 

[beaker]

i'm not asking what happens we all know WHAT HAPPENS.
i'm asking why they call it those names.

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1st is the first place dog.... yup? everyone agreed?

2nd is the second place dog... still with me?

3rd is the third place dog... not blown your mind yet have i?

these are the only awards that count these are the only awards at a champ show where you can qualify for Crufts in certain classes,

the wording'' RESERVE'' should be fairly self explanatory it is the dog that is in 'reserve' should any of the above placed dogs be disqualified IT IS NOT A PLACEMENT, it isn't the 4th placed dog or any other place, it counts towards nothing UNLESS one of the 1st to 3rd place dog gets disqualified, then it is no longer RESERVE it is 3rd :thumbsup:

easy peesy

oops, sorry, how sarky do i sound?

 

[Mark Roberts]

the wording'' RESERVE'' should be fairly self explanatory it is the dog that is in 'reserve' should any of the above placed dogs be disqualified IT IS NOT A PLACEMENT, it isn't the 4th placed dog or any other place, it counts towards nothing UNLESS one of the 1st to 3rd place dog gets disqualified, then it is no longer RESERVE it is 3rd

So it's still 4th? but not important?.

So VHC? if its so highly commended why wasnt it placed higher? is this an unimportant place as well then?

IT IS NOT A PLACEMENT

of course it's a placement, it's being PLACED there in case 1 or more dogs get disqualified?.

2nd is the second place dog... still with me?

But is that not reserve in case the winner gets disqualified?

3rd is the third place dog... not blown your mind yet have i

No but I feel your either unwilling or unable to answer my original question?.

 

[Cartman]

If in the event the res was disquallified.......would there be no award for res?

Would the VHC then be only the res, or VVhc??

OR....

what about results being listed as:

1st......subject to no protest

2nd.....subject to the first dog not being disquallified.

3rd.....subject to the other 2 still holding their respective placings.

res.....subject to the fact it is not in the top 3.

VHC...subject to the others not dropping dead on the way out of the ring.

 

[saraquele]

aaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg (w00t) (w00t)

MARK STICK TO RACING ....................... (w00t) (w00t)

and leave us poor showing people in peace

 

[beaker]

how did you get to VHC coming second

because you disqualified 1st-3rd?

MY QUEST FOR THE ANSWER CONTINUES :thumbsup:

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if i was judging a class and i had picked out in my head who was getting 1st 2nd and 3rd and was looking at the line up to see who to place Reserve, i would have to find a dog that should 1st to 3rd get disqualified i would happy to give the reserve placed dog the top award,

if i was to judge a class of 20 dogs and was to place every single dog in order of it's merit and for some freak reason 1st to 19th were disqualified the the 20th place dog would be first with your reasoning, there has to be a cut off point and as lovely as it would be to have a class of 20 dogs ALL deserving top place it it highly unlikely.

 

[Mark Roberts]

1st......subject to no protest2nd.....subject to the first dog not being disquallified.

3rd.....subject to the other 2 still holding their respective placings.

res.....subject to the fact it is not in the top 3.

VHC...subject to the others not dropping dead on the way out of the ring.

Thank god someone knows what their talking about. :thumbsup:

but why not

4th ~ subject to the fact it is not in the top 3 (as the judge was wronge)

5th ~ Because we have a spare certificate and cant be bothered taking it home again

 

[beaker]

If in the event the res was disquallified.......would there be no award for res?Would the VHC then be only the res, or VVhc??

OR....

what about results being listed as:

1st......subject to no protest

2nd.....subject to the first dog not being disquallified.

3rd.....subject to the other 2 still holding their respective placings.

res.....subject to the fact it is not in the top 3.

VHC...subject to the others not dropping dead on the way out of the ring.

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i'd love to see the Rosette makers trying to cram all that on the front of a diddy rosette (w00t) :lol:

 

[saraquele]

1st......subject to no protest2nd.....subject to the first dog not being disquallified.

3rd.....subject to the other 2 still holding their respective placings.

res.....subject to the fact it is not in the top 3.

VHC...subject to the others not dropping dead on the way out of the ring.

Thank god someone knows what their talking about. :thumbsup:

but why not

4th ~ subject to the fact it is not in the top 3 (as the judge was wronge)

5th ~ Because we have a spare certificate and cant be bothered taking it home again

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yep , thats it , all makes perfect . logical sense

 

[quintessence]

I think I have the definitive answer for you Mark even though Dolly has already told you. This information comes from the fact that a) i am very old and b) I hold the evidence.

Original placings at shows were 1,2,3, I have catalogues in the forties and fifties

showing three placings only . Reserve is called reserve for that reason and was introduced later when it began to matter that if disqualifications did take place it was possible to place down to three, think stud book etc.

VHC,HC and C (Think about it) were I think first used at Crufts and somewhere in the archives I have prize cards for all three.

 

[Mark Roberts]

MARK STICK TO RACING .......................  and leave us poor showing people in peace

I cant racing finished for the winter so i'm broadening my horizens :thumbsup:

if i was to judge a class of 20 dogs and was to place every single dog in order of it's merit and for some freak reason 1st to 19th were disqualified the the 20th place dog would be first with your reasoning, there has to be a cut off point and as lovely as it would be to have a class of 20 dogs ALL deserving top place it it highly unlikely

if the dog that finished 20th was the only dog that was their on merit and not disq then surely that dog is the best dog in the class once you mark it down for minor faults ect?.

thats like saying at racing a slow dog wins a race but it's not allowed to be the winner?.

 

[Mark Roberts]

Original placings at shows were 1,2,3, I have catalogues in the forties and fiftiesshowing three placings only . Reserve is called reserve for that reason,

So 2nd's not a reserve then for anything.

come on why do they say reserve and not 4th because they mean the same things.

several have told me what Res means but no bodys actualy told me why they call it Res when their are dogs placed higher ie: 2nd, and 3rd that would already move up.

 

[Mark Roberts]

Ok let me ask a simplar question.

earlyer in this thread someone stated that VHC even if the 1-3 + Res were Disq that it wouldnt be moved up?

WHY?

and if thats the case why have VHC

 

[beaker]

the wording'' RESERVE'' should be fairly self explanatory it is the dog that is in 'reserve' should any of the above placed dogs be disqualified IT IS NOT A PLACEMENT, it isn't the 4th placed dog or any other place, it counts towards nothing UNLESS one of the 1st to 3rd place dog gets disqualified, then it is no longer RESERVE it is 3rd

So it's still 4th? but not important?.

calling it 4th would suggest it counted for something and unless one of the above dogs has it's place taken away then it doesn't count towards anything

So VHC? if its so highly commended why wasnt it placed higher? is this an unimportant place as well then?

VHC means that the judge liked the dog but not as much as 1st to 3rd and reserve, but it doesn't count for any thing the dog could have a 1000 VHC's and still not have a title

IT IS NOT A PLACEMENT

of course it's a placement, it's being PLACED there in case 1 or more dogs get disqualified?.

nope it isn't a place,it is held in reserve in case one of the placed dogs gets disqualified, calling it a place would suggest it counted towards something, the dog could have tens of 1000's of RESERVES and still have nothing to show for it other than sore feet

2nd is the second place dog... still with me?

But is that not reserve in case the winner gets disqualified?

nope because that would be saying that 1st is the only place available,and the only one that counts

 

if you applied this theory to racing then your MoMo would be the only dog turning up at lancashire racing and there would be no top 10

3rd is the third place dog... not blown your mind yet have i

No but I feel your either unwilling or unable to answer my original question?.

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me thinks your taking the ****

 

[beaker]

MARK STICK TO RACING .......................  and leave us poor showing people in peace

I cant racing finished for the winter so i'm broadening my horizens :thumbsup:

if i was to judge a class of 20 dogs and was to place every single dog in order of it's merit and for some freak reason 1st to 19th were disqualified the the 20th place dog would be first with your reasoning, there has to be a cut off point and as lovely as it would be to have a class of 20 dogs ALL deserving top place it it highly unlikely

if the dog that finished 20th was the only dog that was their on merit and not disq then surely that dog is the best dog in the class once you mark it down for minor faults ect?.

thats like saying at racing a slow dog wins a race but it's not allowed to be the winner?.

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awarding so many places in a big class could mean judging went on for days at a time

if you HAD to award 1st to 20th and 1st to 19th were very good dogs but say disqualified on the grounds of age,

if you didn't have a cut off point the 20th place that has 3 legs and 4 eyes could win the class and qualify for crufts,

 

[quintessence]

Just to add Mark if when I take my little man to Crufts if I'm awarded any card bearing any combination of letters, I'll be so excited I'll buy you a drink and we'll discuss it more.

Jenny

 

[beaker]

Ok let me ask a simplar question.
earlyer in this thread someone stated that VHC even if the 1-3 + Res were Disq that it wouldnt be moved up?

WHY?

and if thats the case why have VHC

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a judge doesn't HAVE to award VHC, it doesn't have to be there and doesn't have to be awarded.

it is there for the judge to show the exhibtor that although the dog wasn't deserved of the top awards that day they still liked the dog,

it can be an encouraging award particularly to newcomers to have this,

when i first started out gaining a VHC at a champ show an a class of 30 was a real boost to confidence

 

[TC]

Bless you Beaker for your patience and wisdom :cheers: