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My 2p worth to some frequently raised points;

We should continue to run yd per lb on the straights as that's how it's always been done

Well this isn't true. Before the introduction of ghd stadiums in 1926 the main dog racing spectator sport was whippet racing. Bookies were in attendance at these meets as in ghd racing today. The handicap marks at this time were similar in principle to the staggered marks I suggested above - I copied the idea from a race programm from that time. The Manton prewar handicap is also run on similar lines. The bookies would not be interested in an unfair handicap and hence the marks were to give every dog a level chance with the best dog winning.

I've run at a number of club opens that were 1/2 yard per lb and I seem to rember the NWRF running at 1/2yd lb on the straights. The format for Preston WRC was 1/2yd per lb.

The small whippet is the correct type

This isn't true either. The links to the cine footage of whippet racing in the early 1900s show various sizes of dogs with scratch types being as common as they are today.

When 40yrs or so ago a few blokes got together in a pub and decided on the 32lb limit it caused a lot of resentment as there were many larger types running at that time. I've spoken to Keith Fowler on this and one of the reasons the NWRF was formed was to accomadate larger dogs.

I believe the reason for the popularity of the smaller dog is it's hugely enhanced chances of winning due to the unfair handicap system of yd per lb. It's no suprise that those in favour of yd per lb all have small dogs.

If we are to breed for any characteristic surely it should be for speed. It's perverse that a second rate lightweight will beat a first class heavyweight everytime yet still be more desirable.

Heavyweights can win yd per lb on the straights if they are good enough

Not true. There are no legitimate examples of a heavyweight ever winning supreme at a major straight event yd per lb.

If we are going to bring up Mo Evil at least mention the fact that the lightweight had 3 extra runs and was on it's eighth run of the day

We run yd perlb on the bends which favours the big dogs so it's only fair to favour the small dogs on the straights

Two wrongs don't make a right.

That's if yd per pound really does favour the heavyweights on the bends. There are plentl of examples of lightweights winning major opens on the bends. There is no reason why a staggered handicap couldn't be run on the bends as well since the lightweight dog whippets and the very small bitches ware disadvantaged.

Changing the handicap lessens the acheivements of previous supreme winners

Sorry but I, along with many other racers don't consider a lightweight winning supreme an acheivement but more an inevitability. Winning a race were half the entrants have ( sensibly) not bothered to show up is a hollow victory

Which is the better whippet one that's been unbeaten all year, broken a number of track records, raced and beaten dogs 10lb heavier than itself off scratch or one that's won less than half the races it's entered and is half a second slower than the first example ? If the first dog was 32lb and the second was 18lb and were running off at yd per lb 150 yds who would win?
 
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Yard A Pound.

Perhaps it is the distance that is run for the handicap that is not favourable for a fair race. i dont understand why when the longer distance of... say 175yds is available for the handicap it is not used.
 
Tony Taylor said:
My 2p worth to some frequently raised points;
We should continue to run yd per lb on the straights as that's how it's always been done

Well this isn't true. Before the introduction of ghd stadiums in 1926 the main dog racing spectator sport was whippet racing. Bookies were in attendance at these meets as in ghd racing today. The handicap marks at this time were similar in principle to the staggered marks  I suggested above - I copied the idea from a race programm from that time. The Manton prewar handicap is also run on similar lines. The bookies would not be interested in an unfair handicap and hence the marks were to give every dog a level chance with the best dog winning.

I've run at a number of club opens that were 1/2 yard per lb and I seem to rember the NWRF running at 1/2yd lb on the straights. The format for Preston WRC was 1/2yd per lb.

The small whippet is the correct type

This isn't true either. The links to the cine footage of whippet racing in the early 1900s show various sizes of dogs with scratch types being as common as they are today.

When 40yrs or so ago a few blokes got together in a pub and decided on the 32lb limit it caused a lot of resentment as there were many larger types running at that time. I've spoken to Keith Fowler on this and one of the reasons the NWRF was formed was to accomadate larger dogs.

I believe the reason for the popularity of the smaller dog is it's hugely enhanced chances of winning due to the unfair handicap system of yd per lb. It's no suprise that those in favour of yd per lb all have small dogs.

If we are to breed for any characteristic surely it should be for speed. It's perverse that a second rate lightweight will beat a first class heavyweight everytime yet still be more desirable.

Heavyweights can win yd per lb on the straights if they are good enough

Not true. There are no legitimate examples of a heavyweight ever winning supreme at a major straight event yd per lb.

If we are going to bring up Mo Evil at least mention the fact that the lightweight had 3 extra runs and was on it's eighth run of the day

We run yd perlb on the bends which favours the big dogs so it's only fair to favour the small dogs on the straights

Two wrongs don't make a right.

That's if yd per pound really does favour the heavyweights on the bends. There are plentl of examples of lightweights winning major opens on the bends. There is no reason why a staggered handicap couldn't be run on the bends as well since the lightweight dog whippets and the very small bitches ware disadvantaged.

Changing the handicap lessens the acheivements of previous supreme winners

Sorry but I, along with many other racers don't consider a lightweight winning supreme an acheivement but more an inevitability. Winning a race were half the entrants have ( sensibly) not bothered to show up is a hollow victory

Which is the better whippet one that's been unbeaten all year, broken a number of track records, raced and beaten dogs 10lb heavier than itself off scratch or one that's won less than half the races it's entered and is half a second slower than the first example ?  If the first dog was 32lb and the second was 18lb and were running off at yd per lb 150 yds who would win?

10/10 :thumbsup: now you can be the milk monitor all week :lol:
 
:- " Thing with looking back in the archives we still get very conflicting information as i found in a 1920's piece :blink:

In fact, most of our best specimens have been bred and owner by colliers, who are devoted to the sport of whippet-racing.

When racing it is essential to have a dog in condition, if one desire to win, and hard training is absolutely necessary. A wide margin allowed for size, as dogs from 8 to 24 pounds are allowed to compete and these are handicapped according to weight, etc., so as to give chance to every competing dog.

A good weight for these dogs 20 pounds.

:- "
 
today been looking at some old w/news,in one edition aug1974 [racers write] there is a letter from a mr j lawson from aintree liverpool quote one point i would like to bring up is for bigger dog owners that is dogs over 26lb what chance have they got of winning supreme champion while the run off is run over such a short distance if they are paying there money and we are taking it let,s give them a chance of winning the most coverted title any whippet can win.

This letter was wrote over 33years ago and what i am reading on this forum we still have the same problem today ,i dont think there is any easy solution and in my opinion there should only be one supreme dog or bitch supreme to me means the best dog on the day. at the moment i have a 32lb dog and id be exstatic if he ever goes on to win a title for me, hes been in a few finals for me last year and ive even run him off against the middle weights and the light weights but with no succsess fair enough there will be people saying hes just not good enough and they maybe right but if you take the times that the 20lb dogs are doing even going on the letter from huggybear who says hes 19lb dog little jim was doing 8.50 for 150yrds twenty years ago a 32lb dog would need to do 7.72sec just to dead heat and i have yet to see a no limit scratch dog capable of doing this time never mind a 32lb dog. i dont no if there is a way of leveling the playing field so every dog has a chance of taking supreme or not or we just carry on as we are and accept the situation

and on the other subject are dogs getting faster going through old w/news yes they are dogs in 1974 breakng track records over 150yrds doing 8.70 the same year dogs doing the clocks over160yrds doing 9.50 going up a few years to1986 clocks for 150yrds being broken in8.50 and 160yrds in 9.30 to the present day paloma holding the clock at dawdon for 150yrds at 8.19 the likes of as ya do dipping under 9.00 for 165yrds this not to mention what andrew [deenside belle] is doing round the bends the times he must be knocking of track records is unpresidented any way after all this rambling while iam on my own while my b etter half is at the bingo id like to wish everyody a happy new and injury free season to come see you all in the new year
 
I personally think the system is very unfair for dogs over 26lb running 1 yard a lb over 150/160 yards and would pull out if it was one of ours.

We also have 1 over 26lber and our other dogs at present are all under 20lb so no this topic was not started for my own achievements ... just believe if the run offs was more fair then more people would run there heavy dogs off at champ finals esp the straights ...

Can under stand why people with just smaller breed dogs would want to keep everything the same as its an advantage for them

This was why i suggested 2 sup run offs upto 25lb and upto 35lb @ 1 yard a lb then the max any dog would be given away would be 10 yards.

In my eyes it would take no honors away from the usual light weigh sup winners as 99% of the time there never is any heavy weigh dogs that running off...would just encourage owners of 26lb and above to have more of a chance in achieving the sup title ....
 
as i see it it was up to 28lb then to cater for bigger dogs it was allowed to go up to 32lb to cater for bigger dogs now you want it to favour bigger dogs i think you never be happy :- "
 
and the reason they close races at half yard is because they bump all the way up :- " as bigger right hand runners cant get any side and you think this is good racing i think plenty injurys then never mind the finish :thumbsup:
 
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ahorsnall said:
as i see it it was up to 28lb then to cater for bigger dogs it was allowed to go up to 32lb to cater for bigger dogs now you want it to favour bigger dogs i think you never be happy  :- "
Times change and alot more greyhound has been breed into our none ped blood lines... i can not see the none ped stock going back unless we stop using greyhounds from now then take a look at what weights, size and shapes ... in about 10 or 20 years , i reckon we would end up with quite a few bully's if we did ...which i don't for one min think it will happen
 
DENISE BAILEY said:
ahorsnall said:
as i see it it was up to 28lb then to cater for bigger dogs it was allowed to go up to 32lb to cater for bigger dogs now you want it to favour bigger dogs i think you never be happy  :- "
Times change and alot more greyhound has been breed into our none ped blood lines... i can not see the none ped stock going back unless we stop using greyhounds from now then take a look at what weights, size and shapes ... in about 10 or 20 years , i reckon we would end up with quite a few bully's if we did ...which i don't for one min think it will happen

correct dee all bull from ghd breeding :thumbsup:
 
all the time people say our can a 32lb dog gain 16 yd on a 16lber infact it should its twice the size and then even dont after run against it to maybe the 4th or 5 th race which should favour the bigger dog too and lets now say the bigger dog is better?
 
ahorsnall said:
DENISE BAILEY said:
ahorsnall said:
as i see it it was up to 28lb then to cater for bigger dogs it was allowed to go up to 32lb to cater for bigger dogs now you want it to favour bigger dogs i think you never be happy  :- "
Times change and alot more greyhound has been breed into our none ped blood lines... i can not see the none ped stock going back unless we stop using greyhounds from now then take a look at what weights, size and shapes ... in about 10 or 20 years , i reckon we would end up with quite a few bully's if we did ...which i don't for one min think it will happen

correct dee all bull from ghd breeding :thumbsup:

PMSL ...But have to disagree , in the 70s 80s there was alot more bulls about than now
 
i think the ghd kill whippet racing might as well all go flapping
 
bull from greyhound wot a loada rubish (w00t) where do people think we got non peds :- "

gaz :D
 
DENISE BAILEY said:
bull from greyhound wot a loada rubish (w00t) where do people think we got non peds :- "
gaz :D

british hippt racing and national whippet racing not british greyhound club gaz :thumbsup:
 

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