Wcra Talk-in

[BeeJay]

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My reason for suggesting one win -'s a Champion is this.

I've suggested that there is only one bend championship. We all know of very, very good bend dogs, who aren't so good on straights, who then would only get one chance a year to get a title. Yet the straight dogs would get 3 chances. Still not fair especially if you have a very good bend bitch who comes into season at the wrong timem but better than nothing.

Also VC's are awarded for 1 win does this mean that it's not worth getting? Should there be 4 veteran meetings a year instead of 2 and they have to win twice to become VC's. I think that there should be 4 vet meetings a year.

IMO there are more factors than just not being good enough in dogs not becoming champions. I can think of a few brilliant dogs that haven't got their titles due to bad luck, bad timing, or injuries. Personally I think a really good dog is one that wins opens week in, week out and not just wins at the champs. Rob's suggestion of dogs who win superstars having a title to go with it makes sense. :thumbsup:

Interestingly I've heard a lot of racers say that a big bitch will be very, very good. So actually I can see that people would breed up for big bitches and sell the dogs to pet homes or to people who would 'risk' having an oversized dog. Personally I wouldn't like to see either the dog or bitch height raised. We have possibly gone too far as it is with our current height limits. I too like to see dogs that look male and bitches that look feminine.

 

[Judy]

I agree with you about the veterans Barbara. If there were 4 Veteran Crown races a year then it should be 2 wins for a VC.

Whilst I can think of some extremely good dogs over the years that have been very unlucky to remain half coats or haven't even won one championship, there have also been some not quite so good ones that have only won one. I also agree with you that a good dog is one that wins consistently which is also why I think that one win at a Champs wouldn't really make the title worth while. Two seems a good compromise to me. There ought to be a difference between winning one open and winning a Championship if a dog is going to get a title.

A Superstars winner is indeed good enough to have a title but I can only think of a couple of dogs that have won Superstars and not become a champion anyway. Both were very unlucky not to gain their titles and were definitely worthy of them but I guess there is an element of luck in any sport so a Superstars title would be nice.

 

[Joanna]

Tall can be feminine...............

 

[maggiemay2]

Interestingly I've heard a lot of racers say that a big bitch will be very, very good. So actually I can see that people would breed up for big bitches and sell the dogs to pet homes or to people who would 'risk' having an oversized dog. Personally I wouldn't like to see either the dog or bitch height raised. We have possibly gone too far as it is with our current height limits. I too like to see dogs that look male and bitches that look feminine.

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If it is the case that a big bitch is very very good then why arent we seeing lots of 20" bitches being bred and taking the majority of the wins? Why arent all the racing breeders breeding for 20" bitches? You cant tell me that they are not being bred cos they dont 'look' feminine..... im sure there are people/breeders out there who dont approve of a feathered tail, big lugs but overlook the fact the dog has them as it has the right attitude, 'blood lines' or pedigree.

I cannot see any evident that people are breeding for bigger 20" bitches now, let alone if the limit were made level with that for the dogs. Breeders would breed for the types or pedigrees they prefer.

In my opinion, and as it would seem some others, there would be very little difference in the dogs running. Other than of course you might get a bitch in the not exceeding 32lbs race.

There cant be that much proof of 20/21" bitches beating 20/21" dogs as the height limit for lure coursing or just coursing is the same for both sexes. ie lure coursing 21" and live 20".

If there is some evidence out there of big bitches or indeed bitches of any size being better than the same sized male then lets see it.

I am more than open to change my opinion/view that the height limit should be level when someone provides me with the evidence or proof to show a 21" bitch is better than a 21" dog or that a 20" bitch is a closer match to a 21" dog. in my opinion and from what i have noted there is no marked difference shown in the results of the CHAMPS/Opens etc

Oh, and as has been said already, tall can be feminine too :thumbsup:

 

[Rob Rixon]

Hi All

Interesting debate about dogs v bitches.

The Whippet handicap produced by Richard Baker in 1894 aways gave dogs an extra yard between 21-28lbs. Dogs less than 20lbs got 2 yards extra start. With even smaller dogs getting an event better yardage than there equqlly weighed female runners.

Am I right in saying that at BWRA Champs in the run-off between best bitch and best dog the dog gets an additional yard - they used to. :wacko:

 

[slimfast]

I agree with you about the veterans Barbara. If there were 4 Veteran Crown races a year then it should be 2 wins for a VC.
Whilst I can think of some extremely good dogs over the years that have been very unlucky to remain half coats or haven't even won one championship, there  have also been some not quite so good ones that have only won one. I also agree with you that a good dog is one that wins consistently which is also why I think that one win at a Champs wouldn't really make the title worth while. Two seems a good compromise to me.  There ought to be a difference between winning one open and winning a Championship if a dog is going to get a title.

A Superstars winner is indeed good enough to have a title but I can only think of a couple of dogs that have won Superstars and not become a champion anyway.  Both were very unlucky not to gain their titles and were definitely worthy of them but I guess there is an element of luck in any sport so a Superstars title would be nice.

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some dogs can win at the champs when there is only 5 dogs enterd and become champions other groups have 25 enterd and must run 4 races is this fair ?

 

[slimfast]

I agree with you about the veterans Barbara. If there were 4 Veteran Crown races a year then it should be 2 wins for a VC.
Whilst I can think of some extremely good dogs over the years that have been very unlucky to remain half coats or haven't even won one championship, there  have also been some not quite so good ones that have only won one. I also agree with you that a good dog is one that wins consistently which is also why I think that one win at a Champs wouldn't really make the title worth while. Two seems a good compromise to me.  There ought to be a difference between winning one open and winning a Championship if a dog is going to get a title.

A Superstars winner is indeed good enough to have a title but I can only think of a couple of dogs that have won Superstars and not become a champion anyway.  Both were very unlucky not to gain their titles and were definitely worthy of them but I guess there is an element of luck in any sport so a Superstars title would be nice.

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some dogs can win at the champs when there is only 5 dogs enterd and become champions other groups have 25 enterd and must run 4 races is this fair ?

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i think we should not call it the champs any more / you can win it and still not be a champion :x

 

[Joanna]

I agree with you about the veterans Barbara. If there were 4 Veteran Crown races a year then it should be 2 wins for a VC.
Whilst I can think of some extremely good dogs over the years that have been very unlucky to remain half coats or haven't even won one championship, there  have also been some not quite so good ones that have only won one. I also agree with you that a good dog is one that wins consistently which is also why I think that one win at a Champs wouldn't really make the title worth while. Two seems a good compromise to me.  There ought to be a difference between winning one open and winning a Championship if a dog is going to get a title.

A Superstars winner is indeed good enough to have a title but I can only think of a couple of dogs that have won Superstars and not become a champion anyway.  Both were very unlucky not to gain their titles and were definitely worthy of them but I guess there is an element of luck in any sport so a Superstars title would be nice.

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some dogs can win at the champs when there is only 5 dogs enterd and become champions other groups have 25 enterd and must run 4 races is this fair ?

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i think we should not call it the champs any more / you can win it and still not be a champion :x

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Aahh, here's a big cuddle from me Elaine, all our whippets are champions, we don't need a title to know that :huggles: :huggles: :huggles:

 

[Strike Whippets]

Interestingly I've heard a lot of racers say that a big bitch will be very, very good. So actually I can see that people would breed up for big bitches and sell the dogs to pet homes or to people who would 'risk' having an oversized dog. Personally I wouldn't like to see either the dog or bitch height raised. We have possibly gone too far as it is with our current height limits. I too like to see dogs that look male and bitches that look feminine.

I'm with Barbara on this one and have heard the same .....I think if bitches are allowed to be 21" you will lose the divide of dog and bitch as they'll end up looking the same ..... Females in most species are nearly always smaller than the male = FACT !!! .... I personally don't want to see our breed getting bigger .... They are Whippets not Greyhounds .... Change can do good, but it can also do a lot of damage if the so called experts know sweet fa ... :- " .....Racings ment to be a bit of fun for our dogs and us at the end of the day .... Why try to change our breed and type of Whippet ??? ...

 

[peppermint sue]

Interestingly I've heard a lot of racers say that a big bitch will be very, very good. So actually I can see that people would breed up for big bitches and sell the dogs to pet homes or to people who would 'risk' having an oversized dog. Personally I wouldn't like to see either the dog or bitch height raised. We have possibly gone too far as it is with our current height limits. I too like to see dogs that look male and bitches that look feminine.

I'm with Barbara on this one and have heard the same .....I think if bitches are allowed to be 21" you will lose the divide of dog and bitch as they'll end up looking the same ..... Females in most species are nearly always smaller than the male = FACT !!! .... I personally don't want to see our breed getting bigger .... They are Whippets not Greyhounds .... Change can do good, but it can also do a lot of damage if the so called experts know sweet fa ... :- " .....Racings ment to be a bit of fun for our dogs and us at the end of the day .... Why try to change our breed and type of Whippet ??? ...

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put your glasses on barbara you only have to look underneath to see whats

what :lol:

racing is fun for us and our dogs ? who is trying to change the breed they

look the same to me now as they did 30yrs ago ???

 

[jade]

i think it should be 2 champ win to win your title and also agree there are some dogs that should have been champ and are not i also think the height should be the same for dogs and bitches

 

[TC]

One for all the record keepers then please.....Have there never been any bitches in the 28-32lb class?

TCx

 

[TC]

Hi AllInteresting debate about dogs v bitches.

The Whippet handicap produced by Richard Baker in 1894 aways gave dogs an extra yard between 21-28lbs.  Dogs less than 20lbs got 2 yards extra start.  With even smaller dogs getting an event better yardage than there equqlly weighed female runners.

Am I right in saying that at BWRA Champs in the run-off between best bitch and best dog the dog gets an additional yard - they used to. :wacko:

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LOL Thanks for that. OH never believes me when I say about bitches being faster

TCx

 

[Joanna]

Change can do good, but it can also do a lot of damage if the so called experts know sweet fa ...  :- " 

Hic :b

Not sure any-one here claimed to be an expert.

Every-one is entitled to an opinion, most of us haven't worked in kennels all our lives and are pet owners and enthusiasts with a point of view.

 

[Joanna]

LOL Thanks for that. OH never believes me when I say about bitches being faster 
TCx

I absolutely do believe that bitches are faster Tracey. I would love some relevant research to prove the point though. We may not agree on height, but I am 100 % with you on this one :thumbsup:

 

[BeeJay]

Tall can be feminine...............

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Hmm and don't he look like a weedy little runt in comparison. :lol:

 

[Joanna]

Tall can be feminine...............

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Hmm and don't he look like a weedy little runt in comparison. :lol:

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I wouldn't kick him out of bed Barb :- "

Edit to say I am only 5 ft 3 and he would tower above me :wub:

 

[BeeJay]

One for all the record keepers then please.....Have there never been any bitches in the 28-32lb class?
TCx

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Well until Diamond Geezer won the other week a bitch held the record number of wins for the 30lbs. Now her grandson Diamond Geezer does.

Julie races a very good 29-30lber. Heart's Delight won the 30lb group as well.

There are several lighter dogs (males) that run in that group regularly. RCh Blue & White Dynamite often races at 28lbs and half coat Half A Spot runs at 29-30lbs and both have won in the 32lbs group this year. I've run Alchemist (29lbs) in the 32lbs group this year. There is nothing to stop someone from putting a 16lber in that group all dogs can run overweight so no reason at all why the few heavyweight bitches can't run in it. It's up to their owners.

Generally we don't get many racing bred bitches in the heavyweight group (or groups) but those that do get up to those weights are normally very good. Julie's Maddie is a good example.

 

[TC]

One for all the record keepers then please.....Have there never been any bitches in the 28-32lb class?
TCx

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Well until Diamond Geezer won the other week a bitch held the record number of wins for the 30lbs. Now her grandson Diamond Geezer does.

Julie races a very good 29-30lber. Heart's Delight won the 30lb group as well.

There are several lighter dogs (males) that run in that group regularly. RCh Blue & White Dynamite often races at 28lbs and half coat Half A Spot runs at 29-30lbs and both have won in the 32lbs group this year. I've run Alchemist (29lbs) in the 32lbs group this year. There is nothing to stop someone from putting a 16lber in that group all dogs can run overweight so no reason at all why the few heavyweight bitches can't run in it. It's up to their owners.

Generally we don't get many racing bred bitches in the heavyweight group (or groups) but those that do get up to those weights are normally very good. Julie's Maddie is a good example.

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Thanks Beejay. I only asked as I got the impression from some of the posts that there weren't any bitches in that group because they can't be 28-32lb unless the height limit allows them to be 21" and I couldn't figure that one out.

At least I'm not going mad, so thanks for that!

TCx

 

[Joanna]

Generally we don't get many racing bred bitches in the heavyweight group (or groups) but those that do get up to those weights are normally very good. Julie's Maddie is a good example.

Shame it isn't more even across the board though. Perhaps having the height restriction is preventing that.