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[maggiemay2]

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Back in 1991, I raced a bitch, Coaldust Susie.  She was show-bred, weighed 28 pounds and was 20 1/2" tall.  Obviously the height limit then was the same for dogs and bitches and I can't remember it making any difference at all.  If memory serves me correctly, I can't recall that there were any more big bitches racing then than there are now with the 20" height limit.  What is interesting though, is that there are lots more small males (20lb and under) racing now than there were 14 years ago.  Is this because people are breeding deliberately to avoid big bitches or because some popular sires are or have been, small?When was the height limit for bitches changed and for what reason?

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good post jane their was no difference in 1981 jane.I would also like to know

why it changed and for what reason ?

please don,t say it was breed standard sorry graham not buying that argument.

been around whippets racing to long mate :lol:

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hmmmmmmmmmmmm very interesting........ anyone have the answer? :unsure:

 

[Strike Whippets]

why just pick on the 'height' part of the breed standard for the racing rules?? just because some people dont think they 'look' rightsurely if everyone was that bothered about the breed standard dogs with feathered tails and standy up ears should be disallowed too as they dont meet certain criteria in the breed standard. Based on the breed standard we would/should be all racing small show quality bitches/dogs.  :- "

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I agree ... We should be trying to stick to the breed standard as well as we can ....

 

[peppermint lady]

Back in 1991, I raced a bitch, Coaldust Susie.  She was show-bred, weighed 28 pounds and was 20 1/2" tall.  Obviously the height limit then was the same for dogs and bitches and I can't remember it making any difference at all.  If memory serves me correctly, I can't recall that there were any more big bitches racing then than there are now with the 20" height limit.  What is interesting though, is that there are lots more small males (20lb and under) racing now than there were 14 years ago.  Is this because people are breeding deliberately to avoid big bitches or because some popular sires are or have been, small?When was the height limit for bitches changed and for what reason?

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good post jane their was no difference in 1981 jane.I would also like to know

why it changed and for what reason ?

please don,t say it was breed standard sorry graham not buying that argument.

been around whippets racing to long mate :lol:

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hmmmmmmmmmmmm very interesting........ anyone have the answer? :unsure:

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yes come on why did the bitch height get brought down :unsure: :unsure:

how could the limit be changed, surely some bitches already had passports so how does that work?? :unsure:

ok i think the limit should at the very least be put back to 20 1/2 for bitches, that way the dogs are still slightly bigger :thumbsup:

 

[Trish]

standards are standards they have to start and finish somewhere.if you dont have rules you have :- " if you go 20 1/2 bitch why not go 21 1/2 dog and so on .all this sex equality has to stop .youll be wanting the vote next

this is grahams post.

 

[controversial]

standards are standards they have to start and finish somewhere.if you dont have rules you have  :- " if you go 20 1/2 bitch why not go 21 1/2 dog and so on .all this sex equality has to stop .youll be wanting the vote next

  this is grahams post.

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yes forgot to change over hey i am a male and i was trying to do two things at once sorry trish had my -_- head on (w00t)

 

[peppermint sue]

standards are standards they have to start and finish somewhere.if you dont have rules you have   :- " if you go 20 1/2 bitch why not go 21 1/2 dog and so on .all this sex equality has to stop .youll be wanting the vote next

  this is grahams post.

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yes forgot to change over hey i am a male and i was trying to do two things at once sorry trish had my -_- head on (w00t)

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come on graham you know men can,t multi task (w00t)

 

[Trish]

standards are standards they have to start and finish somewhere.if you dont have rules you have   :- " if you go 20 1/2 bitch why not go 21 1/2 dog and so on .all this sex equality has to stop .youll be wanting the vote next

  this is grahams post.

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yes forgot to change over hey i am a male and i was trying to do two things at once sorry trish had my -_- head on (w00t)

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come on graham you know men can,t multi task (w00t)

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he certainly carnt thats for sure (w00t)

 

[maggiemay2]

thats not what the debate is, the discussion is that should the bitch and dog limit be the same, No one wants to make the limits bigger and bigger.

as for the issue about bitches being faster than dogs...... as has been mentioned many times previously...... where is the evidence of this? would make interesting reading.

still interested to find out why the limit was adjusted for bitches in the last few years. Anyone shed any light on this?

 

[Heathen]

Hello all - 1st post & straight into a 'battle'

I am not convinced that the bitches being an extra inch will make them less elegent and their running style that offensive. At what distance can most people tell if it is dog or bitch running towards them anyway? It may be that I am relatively new to the game, but I cant tell which whippets in the race are dogs or bitches when they are galloping down the track towards me!!

To me there is an imposed limit in the weight categories without bringing height into it. We dont have a, for example, "not exceeding 24llbs AND not exceeding 20" for dogs & 19" for bitches". Whilst this might sound a little extreme to prove a point, my feeling is that the weight limit will prove a barrier as much as the height. If the bitch just over 20 inch but weighs 30lbs, let her run. There are a few dogs I know who are under height but could not safely make weight limit, so are exluded from taking part. Why have the 2 limits of height & weight?

Additionally regarding breed standards & sticking 'relatively' close to them. We are all having the discussions about the maximum height recommendations, but equally does this not hold true to the smaller of our friends. I do not have any small whippets, and have never measured myself, or been in the vicinity when any have been measured, but some of the little uns' dont look to be anywhere near the minimum recommedations. Surely is that not the same arguement? Can't have one without the other!!

 

[SUNDANCE]

It's been an interesting discussion.
Some of us have stated that we believe that racing bred pedigree whippets should adhere at least in someway to the breed standard which is a written indication of what a whippet should look like.  Whilst other people have said that the breed standard is a discounted irrelevance in terms of pedigree racing whippets.

If the racing bred peddies don't have to at least resemble in the most basic way and measureable ways to the breed standard then how can people make judgements like x dog doesn't look like a whippet.  That statement is totally meaningless unless there is a universal view of what a whippet looks like and that is the breed standard.  IMO opinion if people want to race bigger dogs then go off and do it.  There's non peddie racing, lurcher racing and greyhound racing.  As the owner of big dogs I can assure you that the odds are already stacked against them in peddie racing and they are the ones more unfairly treated by the system as it is.

As I think that I'm the only person with big dogs who has said that they don't agree with the disqualifying height for bitches being raised.

> It seems that all the owners with big male racing whippets are opposed to raising the height limit for bitches.  Are they afraid of the competition? 

Rob next time I see you I shall stomp very hard on your toes and perhaps you'll change your mind about wishing to see bigger bitches allowed in whippet racing.    (w00t) :lol:   :lol:   :lol:

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Barbara, I was wondering why you think that the odds are already stacked against you as the owner of big dogs, and in what way are they more unfairly treated by the system? I looked back at the entries for the first three championship meetings of this year.

1st champs 2nd champs 3rd champs

22lb group 11 entries 23 entries 24 entries

24lb group 17 entries 26 entries 24 entries

26lb group 19 entries 20 entries 16 entries

30lb group 6 entries 6 entries 13 entries

32lb group 9 entries 11 entries 9 entries

As you can see there are far fewer dogs in the two heaviest groups. This means that you have a better chance of winning than if you have a dog in one of the middleweight groups.

As for stomping very hard on my toes next time you see me, I shall wear my steel toecaps - wouldn't want to risk that :lol:

 

[peppermint lady]

:thumbsup: well done rob...when you look at it like that you can really see the lack of dogs or bitches in the 30/32lb groups so all this talk of we are all breeding for bigger is rubbish on those stats

well done to any dog in the 22lb group that makes a final as the entry is always massive.....maybe this group could be split....ne 21lb....ne 22lb :wacko:

 

[Joanna]

Could some-one please tell me if they have put forward the height issue as a topic for the Talk in?

 

[naylorwhippets]

:thumbsup: well done rob...when you look at it like that you can really see the lack of dogs or bitches in the 30/32lb groups so all this talk of we are all breeding for bigger is rubbish on those stats well done to any dog in the 22lb group that makes a final as the entry is always massive.....maybe this group could be split....ne 21lb....ne 22lb :wacko:

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Yes Julie, & the 24lb group is even larger Followed close by the 26lb group.

And they will be even larger next year!

 

[BeeJay]

It's been an interesting discussion.
Some of us have stated that we believe that racing bred pedigree whippets should adhere at least in someway to the breed standard which is a written indication of what a whippet should look like.  Whilst other people have said that the breed standard is a discounted irrelevance in terms of pedigree racing whippets.

If the racing bred peddies don't have to at least resemble in the most basic way and measureable ways to the breed standard then how can people make judgements like x dog doesn't look like a whippet.  That statement is totally meaningless unless there is a universal view of what a whippet looks like and that is the breed standard.  IMO opinion if people want to race bigger dogs then go off and do it.  There's non peddie racing, lurcher racing and greyhound racing.  As the owner of big dogs I can assure you that the odds are already stacked against them in peddie racing and they are the ones more unfairly treated by the system as it is.

As I think that I'm the only person with big dogs who has said that they don't agree with the disqualifying height for bitches being raised.

> It seems that all the owners with big male racing whippets are opposed to raising the height limit for bitches.  Are they afraid of the competition? 

Rob next time I see you I shall stomp very hard on your toes and perhaps you'll change your mind about wishing to see bigger bitches allowed in whippet racing.    (w00t) :lol:   :lol:   :lol:

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Barbara, I was wondering why you think that the odds are already stacked against you as the owner of big dogs, and in what way are they more unfairly treated by the system? I looked back at the entries for the first three championship meetings of this year.

1st champs 2nd champs 3rd champs

22lb group 11 entries 23 entries 24 entries

24lb group 17 entries 26 entries 24 entries

26lb group 19 entries 20 entries 16 entries

30lb group 6 entries 6 entries 13 entries

32lb group 9 entries 11 entries 9 entries

As you can see there are far fewer dogs in the two heaviest groups. This means that you have a better chance of winning than if you have a dog in one of the middleweight groups.

As for stomping very hard on my toes next time you see me, I shall wear my steel toecaps - wouldn't want to risk that :lol:

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Why didn't you add the numbers for the 16lbs and 18lbs groups where I think you'll find very few dogs (males) are able to enter if at all.

Also on the point of it being easy to win these weight groups. Hmm now who is the Superstars dog of the year and how heavy is he? Also for the past couple of years how many times off weights has a heavyweight won supreme. I think that you'll find a heavyweight won the Maidstone supreme only last week. :- "

Steel toecaps will have no chance against this big bitch I can assure you my friend.

Oddly enough Jo I haven't put forward for a rise in height for bitches.

 

[Joanna]

It's been an interesting discussion.
Some of us have stated that we believe that racing bred pedigree whippets should adhere at least in someway to the breed standard which is a written indication of what a whippet should look like.  Whilst other people have said that the breed standard is a discounted irrelevance in terms of pedigree racing whippets.

If the racing bred peddies don't have to at least resemble in the most basic way and measureable ways to the breed standard then how can people make judgements like x dog doesn't look like a whippet.  That statement is totally meaningless unless there is a universal view of what a whippet looks like and that is the breed standard.  IMO opinion if people want to race bigger dogs then go off and do it.  There's non peddie racing, lurcher racing and greyhound racing.  As the owner of big dogs I can assure you that the odds are already stacked against them in peddie racing and they are the ones more unfairly treated by the system as it is.

As I think that I'm the only person with big dogs who has said that they don't agree with the disqualifying height for bitches being raised.

> It seems that all the owners with big male racing whippets are opposed to raising the height limit for bitches.  Are they afraid of the competition? 

Rob next time I see you I shall stomp very hard on your toes and perhaps you'll change your mind about wishing to see bigger bitches allowed in whippet racing.    (w00t) :lol:   :lol:   :lol:

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Barbara, I was wondering why you think that the odds are already stacked against you as the owner of big dogs, and in what way are they more unfairly treated by the system? I looked back at the entries for the first three championship meetings of this year.

1st champs 2nd champs 3rd champs

22lb group 11 entries 23 entries 24 entries

24lb group 17 entries 26 entries 24 entries

26lb group 19 entries 20 entries 16 entries

30lb group 6 entries 6 entries 13 entries

32lb group 9 entries 11 entries 9 entries

As you can see there are far fewer dogs in the two heaviest groups. This means that you have a better chance of winning than if you have a dog in one of the middleweight groups.

As for stomping very hard on my toes next time you see me, I shall wear my steel toecaps - wouldn't want to risk that :lol:

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Why didn't you add the numbers for the 16lbs and 18lbs groups where I think you'll find very few dogs (males) are able to enter if at all.

Also on the point of it being easy to win these weight groups. Hmm now who is the Superstars dog of the year and how heavy is he? Also for the past couple of years how many times off weights has a heavyweight won supreme. I think that you'll find a heavyweight won the Maidstone supreme only last week. :- "

Steel toecaps will have no chance against this big bitch I can assure you my friend.

Oddly enough Jo I haven't put forward for a rise in height for bitches.

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Fair enough Barbara,

It is reasonable that people have differing views.

I am hoping to be able to propose the item for the agenda on weight groups, but I really don't want to do two issues. I am also not sure if I can make it to the Talk in yet.

As there have been numerous calls for a change, I am hoping that some-one eles will research and propose the height item.

Jo

 

[Rob Rixon]

Could some-one please tell me if they have put forward the height issue as a topic for the Talk in?

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Hi

If in doubt put the item forward for the agenda - you only have until this weekend to do it!

Is it me (getting older) but are you fed up of people putting pictures of their pups on K9 under the racing items? May be we should have a series of items under the heading Rubbish!! :lol:

We all know that we own the BEST WHIPPETS - is it a fact that empty ships make the most noise :lol:

 

[peppermint sue]

Could some-one please tell me if they have put forward the height issue as a topic for the Talk in?

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Hi

If in doubt put the item forward for the agenda - you only have until this weekend to do it!

Is it me (getting older) but are you fed up of people putting pictures of their pups on K9 under the racing items? May be we should have a series of items under the heading Rubbish!! :lol:

We all know that we own the BEST WHIPPETS - is it a fact that empty ships make the most noise :lol:

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yes Ithink it must be you getting older rob :lol: Idon,t think its a problem if

they are going to be racing dogs in the future

 

[Joanna]

Could some-one please tell me if they have put forward the height issue as a topic for the Talk in?

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Hi

If in doubt put the item forward for the agenda - you only have until this weekend to do it!

Is it me (getting older) but are you fed up of people putting pictures of their pups on K9 under the racing items? May be we should have a series of items under the heading Rubbish!! :lol:

We all know that we own the BEST WHIPPETS - is it a fact that empty ships make the most noise :lol:

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I have no problem with putting an item forward and I have the form and approval and seconding from our club sec. I would like to know if an item can be put forward without the proposer being present. It is a waste of time if I can't be there to bother. It seems alot of people have a lot to say but no-one wants to put their head on the block. I'll happily do it but it could be a futile excercise.

So again, is any-one else actually willing to put forward proposals?

 

[naylorwhippets]

no its not you getting old rob you are old. everyone likes looking at the new arrivals im sure and they all near enough end up racing. (w00t) (w00t)

 

[Macha]

I have just read quickly through 8 pages of discussion.

Re 200 yd races, I've read that longer races are likely to be safer as the dogs are going slightly slower at the end of the race. For this reason, I would prefer 200 yd to 150 yd. My dogs have raced up to 350 yd straights at lurcher meets, not optimal for whippets, but it makes me certain 200 yd is not too long.

I agree there needs to be some definite height limit; the only reason maybe it should be raised is to allow import and crossbreeding with American dogs as the standard over there has been higher for decades at least. I personally prefer smaller whippets, 17-19.5 inches.

If the height limit for dogs and bitches is the same perhaps that is fairer competition - unless dogs and bitches are raced separately or if it is proved that bitches are substantially faster than dogs so that a good 21 bitch will almost always be faster than a good 21 inch dog. But in terms of breeding, on average dogs are about an inch taller than bitches and pups are often taller than their parents, so breeders would have to aim to breed about an inch smaller than the limit so that most of the pups who do grow taller will still be able to race. I would race a cryptorchid but I wouldn't breed from him (and I probably wouldn't breed fly-eared dogs either because I show my dogs and I really like the "rose" ears).

I propose that the agenda should discuss weight limits and weight handicaps. There need to be limits and for safety's sake dogs of similar weights should race together. But is the handicapping system fair? My dog doesn't run faster when he weighs in at 30 lbs than when he weighs in at 29 lb. Is the system encouraging breeders to breed extremely light-boned whippets which would not be strong enough to hunt? I think the weight handicap is the greatest problem to people who want to both race and show their dogs.