What Drives A Breed

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A longish neck which is arched and well-set is a thing of great beauty and also can catch a rabbit. The long skinny stovepipes which are the worst extremes of US show style aren't very functional, I agree.

My show dogs can catch a rabbit...functionally--most of them are fast and quick and I do lure course and race my dogs, but the main problem I have right now with my FASTEST and STRONGEST dog is that he's--not to put too fine a point on it--a few spanners shy of a tool bag.

He starts screaming the minute he sights the game...100 yards away!--giving the rabbit ample warning of his intent and location, and thereby allowing it more than enough time to make for the nearest patch of briar and dive to ground.

OTOH, some of my slower Whippets are stealthy, and will silently stalk until they are close enough to make a hard run at it, and have much better success.

The most effective rabbit-killing attribute of a Whippet, neck or no neck, is still located at the end of the neck, between the ears, in my experience. Some laughable little bits of muslin and ivory you wouldn't ever think would be stone cold killers may indeed be skilled at getting a rabbit into their jaws, while others who are 36 pounds of rippling muscle may be hopeless bumblers or more interesting in chasing than killing.

Looking back at the old photos of the working Whippets of yesteryear, they were tiny little roach-backed things--scarcely larger than an Italian Greyhound, and nothing anyone would breed for today--yet they must have hunted very well. It takes a very fast dog over distance to get an American Jackrabbit, but to get a regular rabbit--that's more a matter of skill, experience, good hunting instinct, quickness, and drive, from what I have been able to see over the years.

 

[GotWhippet?]

I have raced greyhounds (not show ring) and I have show whippets (not race whippets). The one key factor that a top race dog MUST have that has absolutely nothing to do with the show ring and that is the KEENNESS factor. I have had greyhounds that can go like the wind but won't chase the lure or won't chase in a field of dogs. I know that most of Australia's top racers wouldn't even get a ribbon in the show ring in this country.

To say that a dog is to long in the loin of to long in the neck would be unable to chase and/or catch a rabbit is absurd imo. The breed standard is there for a reason and that is to give the judges/breeders an ideal to strive for. To have an opinion that a deviation would render a whippet unable to perform it's duty to chase and be agile while doing it, is quite far fetched.

when you have standard neck description of " long, muscular, elegantly arched" it does leave alot to the imagination. How long is to long? how short is to short? what is elegantly arched? how much is to much?............who knows and that is where personal opinion varies and probably why people will never 100% agree on topics like this . It is fun to discuss though.

 

[Seraphina]

I used to have a farm cat, quite small probably between 3- 3.5kg, and he used to kill rabbits lot bigger than himself ,and drag them home across the paddocks (w00t) . While my daughter's toy poodle, with no teeth, murdered all our chooks.

So i do believe that there is no Whippet that could not, under the right circumstances, get and kill a rabbit, however will he hurt his back when doing fast turns or dislocate his neck trying to catch the rabbit?

When any part of dog becomes exaggerated it is likely to cause problems. Too long in loin will make the back too weak. Too thin neck will also be more prone to injury.

 

[UKUSA]

Well what word is that that has upset some of you? Fabulous or long? To say that a dog with a long neck cannot function is nonsense, mine have long necks, fabulous or otherwise and they do not seem to have any difficulty catching rabbits. As for the British kennels of old, I have a great deal of respect for those breeders but that was then and this is now. And where has anyone talked about depriving a Whippet of what it loves to do or are we now about to hear that the current show trend or type of Whippet has done just that? Well if that is so well I can only speak for my dogs and I have to say that bred the way they are does nt seem to have diminished their abilities when it comes to hunting and chasing.

Nicky

 

[jayp]

I would have thought its all a matter of balance, someone once said to me that if one particular part of the dog stood out such as wow what a long neck, or fantastic sweeping stifles then it is usually wrong and out of balance with the rest of the dog

A balanced combination is how a whippet looks and functions best, that dosnt mean however a stuffy individual as elegance is also breed requirement

 

[midlanderkeith]

A "fabulous long neck" is incorrect! for a whippet to work and pick up a hare or rabbit, the last thing you need is a "fabulous long neck"  the whippet originally was a working dog, a functional animal who could pick up its prey on the run. Long neck. broken neck, overlong hind quarter, too long in loin, not functional.
Go back to Tiptree, and the rest, they were functional, Samarkands, Shalfleet, Laguna, Allgarth etc, all were true whippets.

A lot of todays whippets in the ring could not catch a rabbit. They have lost something.

Think about it. :unsure:

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Absolutely bang on our Bertha, all whippets should be allowed to do what they where bred for, to deprive them of this, is taking the whippet out of the whippet

:cheers:

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But Keith your Jill is beautifully bred from show stock and she certainly can catch rabbits can't she?

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Yes she is, and yes she can, but the whippet of today is a far cry from the whippet of my youth, not much bigger than an iggy and roached back, to me that was a whippet, and did exactly what is was bred to do, SAY NO MORE

 

[bertha]

My first introduction to whippets was in the late 50s. Always, roached backs, I don't think so, Laguna, Mrs Chapmans whippets, Mrs Bennets Hardnot's. Pre the 2nd world war whippets were small "roached backed dogs" Poppy Martins whippets were proper little dogs, poachers dogs, this is how it all started, what we have now I know is a far cry from those days, having said that we are in danger of losing our elegant, quality working dogs, that is my opinion. :- "

 

[midlanderkeith]

My first introduction to whippets was in the late 50s. Always, roached backs, I don't think so, Laguna, Mrs Chapmans whippets, Mrs Bennets Hardnot's. Pre the 2nd world war whippets were small "roached backed dogs" Poppy Martins whippets were proper little dogs, poachers dogs, this is how it all started, what we have now I know is a far cry from those days, having said that we are in danger of losing our elegant, quality working dogs, that is my opinion.  :- "

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Here is a pic of todays modern whippet, elegant maybe, and her working ability, well let me put it this way, when i first started to work her around 8 months, what a bloody performance, hadnt a clue, so i assumed rightly or wrongly that the working instincts were none existance, this attitude from her carried on for months,

until i took over and id like to think ive now instilled ino her the ways of her breed and that is to work, so in a way im proud to have done my little bit for the love of our breed, cos now, she's mustard and gives 100% , but as in most breeds of today, changes have taken place,

 

[UKUSA]

We all used to walk wherever we wanted to go, then along came the chap who invented the wheel,next was the horse and cart and moving forward very quickly, we now have cars to get us from A to B. Progress I believe its called.

If any body wants to have a Whippet that reminds them of the old days well it seems that there are still a number of people, probaly working Whippet people who still try to stay close to that look but as far as show dogs are concerned I think those days are long passed.

As for having to instill working ability, I have lived my life around Sighthounds and they DONT all chase, its not many that wont, Ill grant you that but it is a fact that some wont. Implying that a hound that is show bred is somehow deficient in the hunting instinct department is a nonsense. Why is it that working Whippet people think that they somehow understand Whippets more than the show people?

Nicky

 

[bertha]

I know this is off topic, how may people who show allow their whippets free range to hunt properly?

How many allow them to race, and I mean race, clearing trials and actually racing? Lures coursing I know a lot of folk do that, so come on all you show folk will you risk letting your prize whippet do all these things?

I now some of you never let your whippets run free because I have been told "oh I never let my dog off, it might huts itself"

:unsure:

 

[UKUSA]

Yes , I free run my dogs, I live opposite the Downs and I love going over there as much as they do and if they put up a rabbit , they put up a rabbit. I love watching them run, for me one of the pleasures of having the breed. No I dont race, first Im not interested in racing, secondly I dont have the time, the injury issue, well is it wrong not to want your dog injured? As for prized show dogs, well first and foremost they are my prized companions but I choose to show them not race them but exercise , freedom and fresh air is not something they are short of.

Nicky

 

[dawn]

I know some of you never let your whippets run free because I have been told "oh I never let my dog off, it might hurt itself":unsure:

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[SIZE=14pt]I've heard that too - and come across a few people who believe it! [/SIZE]

Such a shame as there is little in this world more beautiful than a whippet in full flight across an open field, in pursuit - whether it be game or another whippet.

 

[Juley]

My Whippets all free run, we walk along the river bank most days and they love to play ball, which most of them will retrieve. Along with an awful lot of show people I know, we love our Whippets and seeing them fit and healthy is important to us. I don't race my dogs, it doesn't interest me to do so. My Whippets can and have caught bunnies.

 

[dessie]

My Whippets are free run every day, twice a day, and those that want to hunt are allowed to do so, within reason, plus they are taken lure coursing regularly (well, those that don't retrive the pulleys!). If they come back with injuries, so be it, they are dealt with and they have even gone to shows sporting sutures. I, for one, certainly do not wrap my dogs in cotton wool!!

 

[jayp]

I free run mine daily and as some of you will know they do tend to get me in trouble, shall we just say they can be too keen sometimes probably why my nerves are shredded!!!!! I have had injuries and even had a young dog break his neck, i carried his body 3 miles home and it still haunts me to this day but i have never stopped giving them the freedom they need, after all they are showdogs that love to run for body and mind

 

[Pennymeadow Whippets]

Well, it seems a while since we ve had a good old discussion on here so how about this, for a new topic. What do people think?What drives a breed and moves it forward? Is it a great dog or bitch whose mark left on the breed is irrefutable. What part do judges play, specialist versus all rounder , that in itself is interesting as probably we in this country have more breeder judges than I believe our friends in Europe or the U.S, so how great is the influence of the all rounder  in these countries? And how do exhibitors feel here? Specialist or all rounder? Do judges "change" a breed or do the breeders? So what do you all think?

Nicky

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What drives a breed the people who own it & use it for what it was intended filling the pot/vermin control/racing.

Great dogs & bitches come & go but its the breeders with the knowladge to use such stock in the right way who help push the breed forward.

What part do JUDGES play well where do we start a judge judging coursing picks the dog on its ability/A line judge pics the fastest dog/bitch on speed/merit. The show judge picks his/her friend most of the time with the thought of you scratch my back i will scratch yours mentality.

Our friends in Europe or the U.S well thier dogs are more like small greyhounds than whippets size has gone wild which will throw all conformation out of the window a big whippet also looses the running action of the breed we see this rubbish about breeding true to type the type of whippet bred to start with was a functional hunting dog not a fluffy toy to dress up & strut around a show ring with while breeding against everything the breed was intended for.

Do Judges change a breed without doubt as the breeding of 2 champions does not mean that its a good mating example the sire of the first whippet to win crufts was Hillsdown Fergal & he was also the grandsire of the only other whippet to win crufts that tells you its down to the breeder to produce the goods from their knowladge not what the judge has to asy in the way they put up the winners.

 

[Juley]

Well, it seems a while since we ve had a good old discussion on here so how about this, for a new topic. What do people think?What drives a breed and moves it forward? Is it a great dog or bitch whose mark left on the breed is irrefutable. What part do judges play, specialist versus all rounder , that in itself is interesting as probably we in this country have more breeder judges than I believe our friends in Europe or the U.S, so how great is the influence of the all rounder  in these countries? And how do exhibitors feel here? Specialist or all rounder? Do judges "change" a breed or do the breeders? So what do you all think?

Nicky

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What drives a breed the people who own it & use it for what it was intended filling the pot/vermin control/racing.

Great dogs & bitches come & go but its the breeders with the knowladge to use such stock in the right way who help push the breed forward.

What part do JUDGES play well where do we start a judge judging coursing picks the dog on its ability/A line judge pics the fastest dog/bitch on speed/merit. The show judge picks his/her friend most of the time with the thought of you scratch my back i will scratch yours mentality.

Our friends in Europe or the U.S well thier dogs are more like small greyhounds than whippets size has gone wild which will throw all conformation out of the window a big whippet also looses the running action of the breed we see this rubbish about breeding true to type the type of whippet bred to start with was a functional hunting dog not a fluffy toy to dress up & strut around a show ring with while breeding against everything the breed was intended for.

Do Judges change a breed without doubt as the breeding of 2 champions does not mean that its a good mating example the sire of the first whippet to win crufts was Hillsdown Fergal & he was also the grandsire of the only other whippet to win crufts that tells you its down to the breeder to produce the goods from their knowladge not what the judge has to asy in the way they put up the winners.

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What a load of absolute poppycock. (w00t) I was lucky enough to be allowed to buy a really well bred bitch, she and her offspring have done really well. I don't judge ( well actually I have judged one open show since!) and neither do the other two owners who show my breeding. If you have a really good dog/bitch, you will usually do well with them. I am SICK of reading this sort of comment.

 

[patsy]

Well, it seems a while since we ve had a good old discussion on here so how about this, for a new topic. What do people think?What drives a breed and moves it forward? Is it a great dog or bitch whose mark left on the breed is irrefutable. What part do judges play, specialist versus all rounder , that in itself is interesting as probably we in this country have more breeder judges than I believe our friends in Europe or the U.S, so how great is the influence of the all rounder  in these countries? And how do exhibitors feel here? Specialist or all rounder? Do judges "change" a breed or do the breeders? So what do you all think?

Nicky

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What drives a breed the people who own it & use it for what it was intended filling the pot/vermin control/racing.

Great dogs & bitches come & go but its the breeders with the knowladge to use such stock in the right way who help push the breed forward.

What part do JUDGES play well where do we start a judge judging coursing picks the dog on its ability/A line judge pics the fastest dog/bitch on speed/merit. The show judge picks his/her friend most of the time with the thought of you scratch my back i will scratch yours mentality.

Our friends in Europe or the U.S well thier dogs are more like small greyhounds than whippets size has gone wild which will throw all conformation out of the window a big whippet also looses the running action of the breed we see this rubbish about breeding true to type the type of whippet bred to start with was a functional hunting dog not a fluffy toy to dress up & strut around a show ring with while breeding against everything the breed was intended for.

Do Judges change a breed without doubt as the breeding of 2 champions does not mean that its a good mating example the sire of the first whippet to win crufts was Hillsdown Fergal & he was also the grandsire of the only other whippet to win crufts that tells you its down to the breeder to produce the goods from their knowladge not what the judge has to asy in the way they put up the winners.

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Why Oh why do you come on a thread about show whippets, surely you have threads that you can talk about your racing dogs. I think you have been extremely rude about show judges and American and European whippets. You see top class show dogs can hunt race and do all things whippet, but I am afraid that a lot of the racing dogs are not good enough specimens to be in the show ring, so for me give me the show bred whippet every time. I think Pennymeadow you are very insulting.

 

[Pennymeadow Whippets]

What drives a breed the people who own it & use it for what it was intended filling the pot/vermin control/racing.

Great dogs & bitches come & go but its the breeders with the knowladge to use such stock in the right way who help push the breed forward.

What part do JUDGES play well where do we start a judge judging coursing picks the dog on its ability/A line judge pics the fastest dog/bitch on speed/merit. The show judge picks his/her friend most of the time with the thought of you scratch my back i will scratch yours mentality.

Our friends in Europe or the U.S well thier dogs are more like small greyhounds than whippets size has gone wild which will throw all conformation out of the window a big whippet also looses the running action of the breed we see this rubbish about breeding true to type the type of whippet bred to start with was a functional hunting dog not a fluffy toy to dress up & strut around a show ring with while breeding against everything the breed was intended for.

Do Judges change a breed without doubt as the breeding of 2 champions does not mean that its a good mating example the sire of the first whippet to win crufts was Hillsdown Fergal & he was also the grandsire of the only other whippet to win crufts that tells you its down to the breeder to produce the goods from their knowladge not what the judge has to asy in the way they put up the winners.

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What a load of absolute poppycock. (w00t) I was lucky enough to be allowed to buy a really well bred bitch, she and her offspring have done really well. I don't judge ( well actually I have judged one open show since!) and neither do the other two owners who show my breeding. If you have a really good dog/bitch, you will usually do well with them. I am SICK of reading this sort of comment.

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Get real all of Dorit Mckays stock were tested in the field & most on the race track & she produced more champions this way than anyone I SAY AGAIN A FUNTIONAL BREED or MULTIPURPOSE BREED.

 

[bertha]

My dog has won Ch show firsts and has done his clearing trials to race, so come on Patsy there are dual purpose whippets, don't insult the working folk they love their dogs too.

K9 I thought was for all whippet people not just show folk.

Predudice is creeping in on this thread now so I am off.