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Hi Wild!
I see exactly what you are saying but I'm a bit confused at the idea of a non-ped decelerating after 150 yards due to lactic acid build up!

From what you say it seems that in a nutshull, whippets are bred for 150 yards with a few others breed for bends.

Usain Bolt won the 100 metres in the Olympics in a world record time. He is big tall and very powerful, yet until recently he was not considered to be the fastest man in the world over 100 metres! He was regularly beaten by faster starting athletes simply because he often took a while to get into his stride but in the Olympic final he was able to keep the faster starting athletes within reach but once he got going it became clear that he is the fastest in the world bar none! As a newcomer it just seems to me thatin whippet racing the 150 metre champions may not actually be the fastest whippets simply because the race is over before the very fastest have got into their stride.

Is it that the champions are merely the quick trappers, blasting out the traps and going on to win race after race over 150 yards before their competitors have got going? Are these really the fastest whippets?
Hi Nubian, googling the likes of sprint athletes and acidosis will probably explain what I mean but lactic acid isn't the only factor, there are many that come into play.

Being unfamiliar with Usian Bolt I googled him, physically I'd say he looked like a sprinter, especially when you compare him to the likes of a Kenyan long distance athlete.

To me, I consider that over 150yds there is no margin for error, it's not just a matter of trapping well and going full pelt, being able to hold this is important too, especially with dogs that are stronger finishers coming up from behind. Miss the lids with either a dog with early pace or a strong finisher and it will often cost them a win, I actually like the idea that there is no margin for error and consider it a proper race.

I don't know the answer, as I say I'm a newbie but I just can't help wondering if things would be a little different if a "real" test was to be established!
What would you consider to be a ''real'' test? It'd be interesting to see what you think would be and I bet there's a dog out there that'll cater for it, whether it's a non-ped on the straights is another matter. ;)
Hi Wild,

Sorry for the late response on this. The point I was making about sprinters is that I know they are made up totally differently to long distance runners. In a nutshull, as far as Africans are concerned West Africans and their descendants(ie West Indians and black Americans )produce sprinters whereas East Africans produce middle and long distance runners. Yes, they are all Africans but their muscle fibre make-up is entirely different. To me it is the same with whippets and greyhounds. Both are sprinters whether they specialise in 150 yards to 1100 yards. Comparing sprinters with marathon runners would be like comparing greyhounds/whippets to say African Hunting dogs which are the true marathon runners of the canine world- they can chase a wildebeest all night until it just collapses!

I've gone on a bit here but what I am trying to say is that whippets are all in essence sprinters but which whippets are truly the fastest sprinters? In human beings I think it is fair to say that the fastest over 100 metres are the ones with the highest top speed but with whippets I just struggle to see how 150 yards is the equivalent distance. From my admittedly inexperienced observations my guess is that this is probably the equivalent of a human racing over 40 or 50 meteres and is not really long enough to show the very fastest whippets. I have no idea what the optimum distance is maybe 250 to 300 yards? All I am asking is whether there is a better way than the current one to judge?

Like i said before this is a RIDICULOUS idea. You can not expect a 16lb whippet to run 250yds, 5 times in one day. 150yds is an ample distance for them to reach their top speed. The usual weight grades in handicap racing range from 16 to 32lbs. If they were only running ONCE or TWICE it would be a feasable idea if the handicapping was changed to accomodate the smaller whippets. Any top class whippet up to 32lb will reach its top speed well before the 150yd. mark. Whippet racing is about speed out of the traps & their ability to maintain this speed over 150,160,yds etc If anything needs changing it is the handicapping.[ but i dont think this would help as it would only favour the bigger dogs] The majority of racers are happy with the way racing is at the moment, it is just the handicapping they are not happy with.
 
so come on nubian whats youre name what region you going to race what dogs you got im interested to help new comers. you seem to be very interested in changing the format for a new comer :thumbsup: im sure if you think you know that 150 yds is not far you must have raced summit apart from ghd what can be 4 times bigger and race once a week
Honestly, Iam not wanting to change anything. I just enjoy discussing these points with fellow dog lovers and whilst I might express an opinion I fully understand that people like yourself know a lot more about this game than I ever will and I am very keen to receive any help or guidance on offer.

Remember though, on a topic like this there is no right or wrong answer it is just a matter of a friendly exchange of views.

I don't have a dog yet but I'm hoping to get one soon and I hope to be based at Thurrock.

Cheers!
 
so come on nubian whats youre name what region you going to race what dogs you got im interested to help new comers. you seem to be very interested in changing the format for a new comer :thumbsup: im sure if you think you know that 150 yds is not far you must have raced summit apart from ghd what can be 4 times bigger and race once a week
Honestly, Iam not wanting to change anything. I just enjoy discussing these points with fellow dog lovers and whilst I might express an opinion I fully understand that people like yourself know a lot more about this game than I ever will and I am very keen to receive any help or guidance on offer.

Remember though, on a topic like this there is no right or wrong answer it is just a matter of a friendly exchange of views.

I don't have a dog yet but I'm hoping to get one soon and I hope to be based at Thurrock.

Cheers!
best of :luck:
 
so come on nubian whats youre name what region you going to race what dogs you got im interested to help new comers. you seem to be very interested in changing the format for a new comer :thumbsup: im sure if you think you know that 150 yds is not far you must have raced summit apart from ghd what can be 4 times bigger and race once a week
Honestly, Iam not wanting to change anything. I just enjoy discussing these points with fellow dog lovers and whilst I might express an opinion I fully understand that people like yourself know a lot more about this game than I ever will and I am very keen to receive any help or guidance on offer.

Remember though, on a topic like this there is no right or wrong answer it is just a matter of a friendly exchange of views.

I don't have a dog yet but I'm hoping to get one soon and I hope to be based at Thurrock.

Cheers!
best of :luck:
The way you are talking youd be better off with a big Scratch dog not a normal [16-32lb]. sized whippet, then your ideas wouldnt sound so stupid. :luck:
 
so come on nubian whats youre name what region you going to race what dogs you got im interested to help new comers. you seem to be very interested in changing the format for a new comer :thumbsup: im sure if you think you know that 150 yds is not far you must have raced summit apart from ghd what can be 4 times bigger and race once a week
Honestly, Iam not wanting to change anything. I just enjoy discussing these points with fellow dog lovers and whilst I might express an opinion I fully understand that people like yourself know a lot more about this game than I ever will and I am very keen to receive any help or guidance on offer.

Remember though, on a topic like this there is no right or wrong answer it is just a matter of a friendly exchange of views.

I don't have a dog yet but I'm hoping to get one soon and I hope to be based at Thurrock.

Cheers!
best of :luck:
or a greyhound

The way you are talking youd be better off with a big Scratch dog not a normal [16-32lb]. sized whippet, then your ideas wouldnt sound so stupid. :luck:
 
It would be interesting to see if dogs do actually reach their top speed over 150yd - we need someone like Tony now. The fact that a few dogs struggle with the stopping distance makes me think they do, i've always felt that mine have, although some will reach it faster than others, for me bend racing is about them reaching their top speed and being able to maintain it, dogs do win bend races purely by the fact they are so fast away and can probably afford to fade a little bit down the back straight.
 
It would be interesting to see if dogs do actually reach their top speed over 150yd - we need someone like Tony now. The fact that a few dogs struggle with the stopping distance makes me think they do, i've always felt that mine have, although some will reach it faster than others, for me bend racing is about them reaching their top speed and being able to maintain it, dogs do win bend races purely by the fact they are so fast away and can probably afford to fade a little bit down the back straight.

It depends on the size of the dog.Any top class dog 16-32lbs definately reaches its top speed within 150yds. If dogs do... fade down the back straight this proves that it is too far for them. If a dog misses the traps on the bends it can still win.[this is not proper racing for me]

A true test of a fast dog is on the straights, where it must do everything right or the race is lost. It must trap & maintain its top speed till it is over the winning line.[im talking about normal whippets 16-32lbs]
 
It would be interesting to see if dogs do actually reach their top speed over 150yd - we need someone like Tony now. The fact that a few dogs struggle with the stopping distance makes me think they do, i've always felt that mine have, although some will reach it faster than others, for me bend racing is about them reaching their top speed and being able to maintain it, dogs do win bend races purely by the fact they are so fast away and can probably afford to fade a little bit down the back straight.

It depends on the size of the dog.Any top class dog 16-32lbs definately reaches its top speed within 150yds. If dogs do... fade down the back straight this proves that it is too far for them. If a dog misses the traps on the bends it can still win.[this is not proper racing for me]

A true test of a fast dog is on the straights, where it must do everything right or the race is lost. It must trap & maintain its top speed till it is over the winning line.[im talking about normal whippets 16-32lbs]
This is really the question I've been asking all along.

If you are looking to decide the fastest whippet irrespective of weight, handicap etc then the only way is to make sure there is no argument and make allowances for the dogs who do not reach top whack until a little bit later. The test should be not based on which dogs trap best but on which dogs are fastest. Having a fast trapper does not ultimately mean that you have the fastest dog!

Yes, a dog could fade down the back straight because the distance is too far but over 150 yards I suspect that it could well be that the dog is not fit or quite frankly, that the dog is not very fast even though it may have come flying out of the traps!

Greyhounds as far as I know are not classified according to weight but according to speed and this is assesed over a standard distance irrespective of weight, sex or height. I am yet to understand why this is different for whippets. I would be grateful if some one with more knowledge could explain this for me.
 
It would be interesting to see if dogs do actually reach their top speed over 150yd - we need someone like Tony now. The fact that a few dogs struggle with the stopping distance makes me think they do, i've always felt that mine have, although some will reach it faster than others, for me bend racing is about them reaching their top speed and being able to maintain it, dogs do win bend races purely by the fact they are so fast away and can probably afford to fade a little bit down the back straight.

It depends on the size of the dog.Any top class dog 16-32lbs definately reaches its top speed within 150yds. If dogs do... fade down the back straight this proves that it is too far for them. If a dog misses the traps on the bends it can still win.[this is not proper racing for me]

A true test of a fast dog is on the straights, where it must do everything right or the race is lost. It must trap & maintain its top speed till it is over the winning line.[im talking about normal whippets 16-32lbs]
This is really the question I've been asking all along.

If you are looking to decide the fastest whippet irrespective of weight, handicap etc then the only way is to make sure there is no argument and make allowances for the dogs who do not reach top whack until a little bit later. The test should be not based on which dogs trap best but on which dogs are fastest. Having a fast trapper does not ultimately mean that you have the fastest dog!

Yes, a dog could fade down the back straight because the distance is too far but over 150 yards I suspect that it could well be that the dog is not fit or quite frankly, that the dog is not very fast even though it may have come flying out of the traps!

Greyhounds as far as I know are not classified according to weight but according to speed and this is assesed over a standard distance irrespective of weight, sex or height. I am yet to understand why this is different for whippets. I would be grateful if some one with more knowledge could explain this for me.
EVERYONE MADE THERE FEELINGS FELT I DONT NO WHAT YOU WANT
 
I own a bitch Amazing Grace (17lb) she hit her top speed very fast, but then blow up about 135/140 yards ...unlike her mother Blue Goblin (16lb) whom could stay approximately 240 yards before she blow gaining her top speed very fast on the bends ...they were both brilliant traps

I think it would be hard to pin point when whippets hit there top speed , due to the different weight and build of each dog. Only by long observation of each interval dog could you predict its top speed

As for varying the distances our club (Newton Aycliffe) run three different distances alternative weeks -150 yrds, 160 yrds 175 yrds .

Good luck in your quest to find the whippets top speed Nubian, great debate by the way :thumbsup:
 
the best thing i can suggest is to just watch and learn,then make your own mind up. :thumbsup:
 
It would be interesting to see if dogs do actually reach their top speed over 150yd - we need someone like Tony now. The fact that a few dogs struggle with the stopping distance makes me think they do, i've always felt that mine have, although some will reach it faster than others, for me bend racing is about them reaching their top speed and being able to maintain it, dogs do win bend races purely by the fact they are so fast away and can probably afford to fade a little bit down the back straight.

It depends on the size of the dog.Any top class dog 16-32lbs definately reaches its top speed within 150yds. If dogs do... fade down the back straight this proves that it is too far for them. If a dog misses the traps on the bends it can still win.[this is not proper racing for me]

A true test of a fast dog is on the straights, where it must do everything right or the race is lost. It must trap & maintain its top speed till it is over the winning line.[im talking about normal whippets 16-32lbs]
This is really the question I've been asking all along.

If you are looking to decide the fastest whippet irrespective of weight, handicap etc then the only way is to make sure there is no argument and make allowances for the dogs who do not reach top whack until a little bit later. The test should be not based on which dogs trap best but on which dogs are fastest. Having a fast trapper does not ultimately mean that you have the fastest dog!

Yes, a dog could fade down the back straight because the distance is too far but over 150 yards I suspect that it could well be that the dog is not fit or quite frankly, that the dog is not very fast even though it may have come flying out of the traps!

Greyhounds as far as I know are not classified according to weight but according to speed and this is assesed over a standard distance irrespective of weight, sex or height. I am yet to understand why this is different for whippets. I would be grateful if some one with more knowledge could explain this for me.
That would be a time handicap then , rather than the yard a lb

Where dogs are timed on the speed and given a mark (1 yard)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
GREYHOUNDS ARE ASSESSED BY TIMES THAT RUNS IN GRADING TRIALS THEN CLASSIFIED BY THE COURSE IT RUNS RAILS MIDDLE OR WIDE.WHIPPETS CAN BE JUST THE SAME WHEN ENTERED FOR A TIME HANDICAP.BUT WHEN IT COMES TO CHAMPIONSHIPS WE REVERT TO THE TRIED AND TESTED FORMULA OF YARD PER POUND WHICH INVARIABLY FINDS THE FASTEST RECOGNISED DOG OR BITCH.WE ALSO HAVE A TOP TEN PERFORMERS ON A POINTS SYSTEM AND ITS AMAZING THE WINNER EACH YEAR IS SO OFTEN THE WINNER OF ONE OF OUR TWO STRAIGHT CHAMPIONSHIPS.

SORRY IF THIS IS BORING TO ESTABLISHED RACERS BUT ITS TO EXPLAIN TO OUR NEW MEMBER NUBIAN WONDER IF YOU HAVE DECIDED ON A PUP YET AND WHAT BREEDING
 
GREYHOUNDS ARE ASSESSED BY TIMES THAT RUNS IN GRADING TRIALS THEN CLASSIFIED BY THE COURSE IT RUNS RAILS MIDDLE OR WIDE.WHIPPETS CAN BE JUST THE SAME WHEN ENTERED FOR A TIME HANDICAP.BUT WHEN IT COMES TO CHAMPIONSHIPS WE REVERT TO THE TRIED AND TESTED FORMULA OF YARD PER POUND WHICH INVARIABLY FINDS THE FASTEST RECOGNISED DOG OR BITCH.WE ALSO HAVE A TOP TEN PERFORMERS ON A POINTS SYSTEM AND ITS AMAZING THE WINNER EACH YEAR IS SO OFTEN THE WINNER OF ONE OF OUR TWO STRAIGHT CHAMPIONSHIPS.SORRY IF THIS IS BORING TO ESTABLISHED RACERS BUT ITS TO EXPLAIN TO OUR NEW MEMBER NUBIAN WONDER IF YOU HAVE DECIDED ON A PUP YET AND WHAT BREEDING
the breeding bit will come next (w00t) ;)
 
It would be interesting to see if dogs do actually reach their top speed over 150yd - we need someone like Tony now. The fact that a few dogs struggle with the stopping distance makes me think they do, i've always felt that mine have, although some will reach it faster than others, for me bend racing is about them reaching their top speed and being able to maintain it, dogs do win bend races purely by the fact they are so fast away and can probably afford to fade a little bit down the back straight.

It depends on the size of the dog.Any top class dog 16-32lbs definately reaches its top speed within 150yds. If dogs do... fade down the back straight this proves that it is too far for them. If a dog misses the traps on the bends it can still win.[this is not proper racing for me]

A true test of a fast dog is on the straights, where it must do everything right or the race is lost. It must trap & maintain its top speed till it is over the winning line.[im talking about normal whippets 16-32lbs]
This is really the question I've been asking all along.

If you are looking to decide the fastest whippet irrespective of weight, handicap etc then the only way is to make sure there is no argument and make allowances for the dogs who do not reach top whack until a little bit later. The test should be not based on which dogs trap best but on which dogs are fastest. Having a fast trapper does not ultimately mean that you have the fastest dog!

Yes, a dog could fade down the back straight because the distance is too far but over 150 yards I suspect that it could well be that the dog is not fit or quite frankly, that the dog is not very fast even though it may have come flying out of the traps!

Greyhounds as far as I know are not classified according to weight but according to speed and this is assesed over a standard distance irrespective of weight, sex or height. I am yet to understand why this is different for whippets. I would be grateful if some one with more knowledge could explain this for me.
EVERYONE MADE THERE FEELINGS FELT I DONT NO WHAT YOU WANT
This is an interesting discussion. If you don't think so, there is no need to be so rude and dismissive.

Nubian, in every other country but the UK, whippets race on time trials but historically, in this counttry, whippets have been handicapped on weight. In the days when the sport was run by athletics associations (presumably because they owned the tracks), a limit of 36lbs was imposed. This has since been reduced but in theory, a 16lb whippet with a 20 yard start could be competitive against a 36lb dog as in those days they ran in lanes to a rag waved by their owner so there was no risk of a small dog being knocked off its feet by a bigger one.

Most people think that racing out of scratch traps is the only true way to find the fastest dog, especially as handicaps can vary from one event to the next. It is possible that a big dog might not hit its top speed in 150 yards but that doesn't mean the race should be longer, it simply means that dog does not have enough early pace to win on the straight and would be better off running a different kind of race.

Personally, I am not so interested in non-ped racing because breeding only for speed seems to me to throw the baby out with the bathwater but I accept that is what non-ped racing is about. However, in pedigree racing, I should like to see an end to handicapping on weight because I think it has resulted in untypical whippets - and some problems due to the small gene pool which non peds don't have. (I also have a personal issue with it as I cannot race my 34lb dog even though he is under 20" at the shoulder).

You are in a no win situation asking for a longer race but as some have said, a different form of handicapping could have some legs.

Gay

www.moonlake.co.uk
 
this is a good topic but it seems a bit drawn out whatever answers are given :wacko: as far as changing the distance WHY its worked well enough for years too much change may ruin a good sport :sweating:
 
not many 150 race formats anyway most are 160
 
can't see the point of this debate anyway :angry:
 
can't see the point of this debate anyway :angry:
al 2nd that john,seems to me to many new people wanting to much and they havent even ran dogs yet,wait wach and learn like we all have done,or are you new to the sport? :wacko:
 
any whippet can hit full speed in just 1yd regardless of weight or size just turn your back for a split second and there in the bin (w00t)
 

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