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Barking off leash

VictoriaSonny

VictoriaSonny

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Hi. I’ve posted before about this and took into consideration what was said to try and help. I’ve avoided those open spaces as advised and Sonny loves putting his harness and lead on. We have done training on a 30 metre leash and ten metre for recall training, and he’s getting really good. Then as soon as he’s off leash, the barking and biting at the legs begins. It actually reduced me to tears tonight. It was so embarrassing. I couldn’t get him to come or heel which is so usually good at. Is it for my attention? Is it because he doesn’t know what do off leash? I honestly don’t know what to do. After a while of trying to distract him with a stick he comes bounding up to me and cuddles into me like nothings happnened. So I don’t think it’s because he hates me! I seriously need help!
 
If Sonny is happy and behaving when on leash...then there is no need to push the 'freedom' for him. I would carry on walking him the way he is happy. Maybe there is some enclosed dog walking fields near you that you can book for and hour every so often? If so and it is something you could do...walk the perimeter with the dog on lead to show him that is not 'open space' and there is no other dogs...just you and him. Arm yourself with exciting toys and see if he feels braver with his 'limited freedom' while playing.
The Original Listings Site for Enclosed Dog Walking Fields in the UK
 
He's at a 'difficult' age... I agree with Finsky, if he's doing well on lead and getting enough entertainment on his long lead, stick with that for the time being. What's he like off lead when walking along a lane or path? If he's OK, then you ca let him off there. And if you do let him off, only do it when there's a convenient tree or fence to turn and face, or even a gate to pop through to give him a timeout.

I know it's horrible, but it does pass - honest!
 
@JudyN @Finsky
Thank you. When he’s off leash around other dogs he just does the same to them, barks in their face until they chase him and tell him to stop. Once he’s stopped he’ll push it again and do the same. It seems he likes the chase and that’s maybe why he does it to me? I will try the field walking the perimeter and see how we get on. He walks well on leash and the extendable gives him freedom but he he collie cocker so needs a lot of running to get rid of energy, even though we play and do mental work at home he’s never worn out. Tonight I let him off on a path at the top of a park, he didn’t run into the open space, he sniffed and ran around on the path and then all of sudden, personality switch and that was it.. he was off. The biting of the legs looks so aggressive, it just really gets me down.
 
Ahh....collie-cocker! Sounds to me like his collie side is coming out and he is trying to round you up....half of him is herding dog and other half a gun dog. Now we have people familiar with those breeds natural instincts but having two different ones in one dog is different kettle of fish and can be tricky to cater for to give him a 'job' ...something to do that will make him happy. It could be that you will have to satisfy his needs in separate sessions and maybe even in order of which is driving him stronger at first. Unfortunately I'm out of my depth with it. I'm sure others will come up with some good ideas. ;)
 
A real high energy cross so actually more work than if you have got a pure collie or cocker ...he could be frustrated and thats why he is nipping to get you to play ...sometimes this type of dog needs more mental stimulation than just running. ...
Have you got friends with dogs that he can go out with ...
 
Your moving feet trigger his herding drive, and he is trying to herd you. I agree with the others - keep him on-lead until this phase is over its worst (it will never go completely as you can't take the 'herd' out of a collie, but you can get to a stage where he stops trying to herd you). You need to tire him mentally because you will never tire him physically - both spaniels and collies are bred to work hard all day. Have a look at the mind games I supplied in another post. These will tire him mentally, which works well.

And as JudyN says - it DOES get better.
 
Hemlock said:
Your moving feet trigger his herding drive, and he is trying to herd you. I agree with the others - keep him on-lead until this phase is over its worst (it will never go completely as you can't take the 'herd' out of a collie, but you can get to a stage where he stops trying to herd you). You need to tire him mentally because you will never tire him physically - both spaniels and collies are bred to work hard all day. Have a look at the mind games I supplied in another post. These will tire him mentally, which works well.

And as JudyN says - it DOES get better.
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Ok. Thank you, I will keep him on the lead from now on and use the extendable for longer walks. Do you think I should let him off when we meet friends with their dogs? Although he barks at the other dog for a while, it takes the barking and biting away from us and it seems he has so much fun playing with the other dogs - I don't want to take that away from him by keeping him on the leash so he can'y play with them. @Hemlock could you please add in the link of mind games, I can't find it in another post?
 
Tinytom said:
A real high energy cross so actually more work than if you have got a pure collie or cocker ...he could be frustrated and thats why he is nipping to get you to play ...sometimes this type of dog needs more mental stimulation than just running. ...
Have you got friends with dogs that he can go out with ...
Click to expand...

I just don't know why he'd be frustrated as he will be having a jolly nice walk and then just flip out! It's so weird! Maybe he was dropped on his head as a pup! We go out with friends every Saturday and Sunday with their dogs so he gets plenty of play. We also meet other dogs on walks and he says Hello nicely. :(
 
VictoriaSonny said:
Maybe he was dropped on his head as a pup!
Click to expand...

Haha, the number of times I've wondered that about Jasper!

It's not necessarily frustration. It's overarousal, and not knowing what to do with that energy, so falling back on 'default' behaviour for his type. Think of how often teenage get-togethers can get out of hand, and how teens and toddlers can both flip into being obnoxious with no excuse whatsoever.

Personally I'd let him off as long as he's playing nicely with the other dogs, i.e. they're enjoying it too rather than being intimidated by the barking and biting. You want to see pauses in the play, where they each shake off a bit of tension, and playbows on both sides.
 
If you look at the thread entitled "Tilly the Collie" on the General Dog forum, you'll find the games there. I apologise for not being able to bring the posts out as quotes, but I find dog behaviour far easier to manage than cyberspace!
 
This is @Hemlock's previous post about activities: I'm going to see if I can come up with an article on brain games for the useful links section later, because it'd be really useful.

"Scent work and other calming activities:

Fill a spray bottle with water and add something stinky like a sardine, piece of raw liver etc. Shake bottle vigorously, then lay a track around your garden squirting at ground level every 3 or 4 paces. Leave a treat by some of the squirts, then at the end, a jackpot of treats. Put dog on lead, say a word e.g. "track" and follow the trail together. Make jackpot time really happy. Day by day make this harder by squirting less often and phasing out most of the treats. Make the jackpot smaller. The dog can't get this wrong, so it doesn't matter if she 'cheats' by going straight to the jackpot. The point is she is doing this WITH you so you are not the Fun Police. You are the source of all good things. Thus she works WITH you not in spite of you.

Save all your cardboard boxes, big envelopes and cardboard rolls from inside loo rolls and kitchen paper. Hide tiny treats in newspaper, cram hard into rolls, etc. cram into boxes, seal boxes. Obviously remove anything dangerous like staples. Give puzzle toy to dog and let her rip her way in to get the treats. She'll be very fulfilled and tired after one or two of these, so no more than that per day. Again, be company for her when she does this."
 
There is no rhyme or reason for puppies to have outbursts ..its just like toddlers get frustrated when we dont understand what they want ...dogs are no different. ..Just remember you have a pup with an Einstein brain ...he is most probably constantly thinking ahead and can easily get frustrated its normal for his cross breed ...collie and spaniel pups are hard work they are both wired to work work work and your boy has both sets of genes ...thats why he needs to be mentally stimulated as much as physically
 
JudyN, some of the things you've taught Jasper would be useful for this dog too.
 
I can only add we took in a rescue, she was a Collie x Springer, she had gone into rescue at 18 months. My wife, (who volunteered at the rescue), saw her and liked her, she was placed into a home then brought back after a couple of weeks saying she was untrainable. We took her home, (as usual I had little say in it but was happy). Petra became a wonderful dog taking part in obedience, agility and working trials. As a bonus with her brain being used she was a lovely dog to live with, she was easily the team leader of the other four dogs we had at the time. (I hesitated wondering if i could say Top Dog as many people take that as being dominant which she wasn't the others just looked to her). So I would say with yours train it, train it to do anything and keep adding new things for it.
 
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