British And American Whippets

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The above photo illustrates perfectly the difference in heads due to whether the width is called for between the eyes or between the ears.

:thumbsup:

 

[seaspot_run]

While still on the subject of eyes, do our American friends think that the difference in eye shape between the English and U.S Whippets makes for a difference in expression. Also I believe that in the States there has been eye testing done on Whippets should we take that to mean that a problem has been found?Nicky

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Being as how the vast majority of eye problems found in Whippets ONLY show up during the young, breeding and competitive years in a eye exam conducted using a slit lamp by an AVCO canine ophthalmologist, and would probably NOT be noted by the owner, the fact that Americans screen and occasionally find something in the eye should not be taken as an indication that only Americans have eye problems in their Whippets.

Let's not forget that most of the Whippets in the US who have been found to have some sort of potentially genetic health problem go back in just a very few generations to English imports whose parents and siblings figure strongly in the pedigrees of UK and UK-based lines all over the world. It is not logical to assume that America is some sort of pressure-cooker which creates new genetic defects unique only to us. While we may have a higher incidence of some things because of concentration on certain lineages which were successful in producing show winners, which also incidentally carried those problems, those problems came from somewhere, and many of them likely came via successful imports which were widely used here, while the siblings and parents of those imports stayed behind and were similarly widely used.

FWIW, I think eye problems are among the least of our concerns. Genetic eye problems in Whippets which would preclude their use in breeding programs are very very rare here, but we clear all our breeding stock with eye exams and we hope by this means to keep them rare. Simply because we screen for them does not mean that we are knee deep in problems. The screening is intended to keep the incidence of eye problems very low. I have never found a genetic eye problem in my dogs, but that does not mean I do not have all my stock checked (even English Mabel was checked) before I use them.

If you aren't screening, then you can't say you don't have any problems.

The entire US dog scene, not just Whippets, has a test first, then breed ethic. US Whippet breeders do far less testing and pre-screening than do fanciers of many other breeds.

 

[beaker]

this thread deffinitely gets my vote for one of the best threads about for a long long while :thumbsup: i'm learning all the time, i've been back and forth between my own photo's and photo's on here. i've never spent as much time as this studying just heads. always looking at glaringly obvious and not the finer intricate details that make one head superior to another.

(ignoring her wandering left ear) :b i always used to think my Rosa's head the eppitomy of whippet feminity, though i think she is probably too fine when compared with most of todays top girlies

thats no slight on todays whips by the way,i think that some of the most beautiful whippets have been produced in recent history, just that she is easier to compare with whippets of say 20 years ago

(sorry rubbish at expalining myself)

 

[patsy]

While still on the subject of eyes, do our American friends think that the difference in eye shape between the English and U.S Whippets makes for a difference in expression. Also I believe that in the States there has been eye testing done on Whippets should we take that to mean that a problem has been found?Nicky

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Being as how the vast majority of eye problems found in Whippets ONLY show up during the young, breeding and competitive years in a eye exam conducted using a slit lamp by an AVCO canine ophthalmologist, and would probably NOT be noted by the owner, the fact that Americans screen and occasionally find something in the eye should not be taken as an indication that only Americans have eye problems in their Whippets.

Let's not forget that most of the Whippets in the US who have been found to have some sort of potentially genetic health problem go back in just a very few generations to English imports whose parents and siblings figure strongly in the pedigrees of UK and UK-based lines all over the world. It is not logical to assume that America is some sort of pressure-cooker which creates new genetic defects unique only to us. While we may have a higher incidence of some things because of concentration on certain lineages which were successful in producing show winners, which also incidentally carried those problems, those problems came from somewhere, and many of them likely came via successful imports which were widely used here, while the siblings and parents of those imports stayed behind and were similarly widely used.

FWIW, I think eye problems are among the least of our concerns. Genetic eye problems in Whippets which would preclude their use in breeding programs are very very rare here, but we clear all our breeding stock with eye exams and we hope by this means to keep them rare. Simply because we screen for them does not mean that we are knee deep in problems. The screening is intended to keep the incidence of eye problems very low. I have never found a genetic eye problem in my dogs, but that does not mean I do not have all my stock checked (even English Mabel was checked) before I use them.

If you aren't screening, then you can't say you don't have any problems.

The entire US dog scene, not just Whippets, has a test first, then breed ethic. US Whippet breeders do far less testing and pre-screening than do fanciers of many other breeds.

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I don't think that Nicky meant to say she thought there are eye problems in American whippets, far from it. She asked with the testing have any problems come to light. As far as I know in this country there is no testing, I always thought the breed as a whole are free from any problems and I hope it stays that way. I know if I ever suspected anything wrong I would have them tested and they would certainly be taken out of any breeding programme no matter how heartbreaking it would be.

 

[UKUSA]

I'm sorry Karen if you thought that I was pointing a finger at the U.S Whippets as far as health problems of any kind are concerned in fact far from it. In fact I applaud the American dog scene in general for dealing and being open, from what Ive seen and heard, about any problem or potential problem that rears its head. In fact a friend of mine who breeds Min Poodles has her dogs D.N.A tested with Optigen in the U.S and rereading my original post it doesn't seem to me that I was being accusatory at all,rather, interested because as you say a lot of the American dogs do not have to go back to far to find their English relatives. I also have been under the impression that this thread has been one that people have enjoyed because of the, amongst other things, sharing of knowledge and that is simple all there was to my question.

Nicky

 

[seaspot_run]

I'm sorry Karen if you thought that I was pointing a finger at the U.S Whippets as far as health problems of any kind are concerned in fact far from it. In fact I applaud the American dog scene in general for dealing and being open, from what Ive seen and heard, about any problem or potential problem that rears its head. In fact a friend of mine who breeds Min Poodles has her dogs D.N.A tested with Optigen in the U.S and rereading my original post  it doesn't seem to me that I was being accusatory at all,rather, interested because as you say a lot of the American dogs do not have to go back to far to find their English relatives. I also have been under the impression that this thread has been one that people have enjoyed because of the, amongst other things, sharing of knowledge and that is simple all there was to my question.Nicky

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It's hard to judge tone sometimes.

My point was that simply because we test, this does not mean necessarily that we are rampant with problems. There have been eye problems found in some US Whippets, but they are very rare and we are trying to keep it that way. All it takes is one top stud dog who has undetected cataracts to cause decades of problems.

 

[anniewhippet]

I must say I applaud the US for testing as we need to ensure that if anything raises its ugly head its detected before too much damage is done ie as now found in IW's.....

As to the heads (sorry had a wobbly computer before) although, thank goodness, we are not a head breed it is one of the first things you see and a pleasing shape, which includes sufficient underjaw, expression etc and with sufficient 'fill' is, to me, correct.

Sorry to say I recently spoke to a new exhibitor with a 'coated up' pup met head on and rather than ask the sex had to move to the side to find out, it was impossible to be accurate without doing this.....

As to 'shape' I think Patsy mentioned the S shape, flowing topline in harmony with underline, a term (S) that is not used so much today....but one which I heard quite often in my early days of attending talks, called seminars now!

As to fronts, not having seen 'in the flesh' many dogs from over the pond, I do think lay of shoulder & length/lay of upper arm is important but agree that the style of handling, as seen in pics, can quite often make them look more upright in front.

Perhaps someone could post the breed council diagrams of fronts on here for further discussion? This is often one part of seminars that raise the most questions from the attendees so an 'open' discussion could be very helpful

 

[UKUSA]

Karen, at no time have I said that American Whippets were rampant with problems but surely if problems exist shouldn't we be talking about them ,after all us show people some pages back were accused of burying our heads in the sand as far as health problems are concerned. Surely we can have a frank exchange of information especially as the Whippet world has opened up so much.To leap to the defensive is not helpful.

Nicky

 

[jinx and rubys mum]

Trust the yanks to tamper with perfection,always got to be bigger and better,leave our humble whippet alone it is already perfect,

 

[patsy]

Trust the yanks to tamper with perfection,always got to be bigger and better,leave our humble whippet alone it is already perfect,

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I think that is very unkind, America has produced top class specimens in many breeds, take a look at the Crufts results in the breeds that came over.

 

[UKUSA]

Hear, hear Patsy, not a helpful comment at all. ALL of our Whippets, certainly show wise are related. America would not be alone with any problems.

Nicky

 

[whippynit]

Really enjoying this thread :thumbsup: could anyone be so kind as to add some pics/diagrams of good/bad upperarms and fronts please? o

 

[patsy]

Really enjoying this thread :thumbsup: could anyone be so kind as to add some pics/diagrams of good/bad upperarms and fronts please? o

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Hi Lisa, so pleased you are enjoying the thread, Beaker came on earlier and said the same thing. Maybe Tracy will put the one on from the illustrated breed standard as she did for the heads.

 

[beaker]

upright in upper arm and a little slack in pasturn... his lay of shoulder is ok but the brindling makes his shoulder look steeper than it is, but you need your hands on him really to feel that :thumbsup:

 

[beaker]

and as an extra bit of Owen bashing i hate the change of line over his croup

...and i hate his ears

 

[anniewhippet]

Hear, hear Patsy, not a helpful comment at all. ALL of our Whippets, certainly show wise are related. America would not be alone with any problems.Nicky

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Quite agree as we need to keep this a sensible and open discussion, after all it is one breed regardless of differences perceived, therefore the 'learning curve' needs to go on........................am sure nobody wants to really upset this long yet interesting thread

 

[moonlake]

I don't think that Nicky meant to say she thought there are eye problems in American whippets, far from it. She asked with the testing have any problems come to light. As far as I know in this country there is no testing, I always thought the breed as a whole are free from any problems and I hope it stays that way. I know if I ever suspected anything wrong I would have them tested and they would certainly be taken out of any breeding programme no matter how heartbreaking it would be.

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The Whippet Club used to run testing sessions at shows with Prof. Bedford but as the Kennel Club would not keep the results or put them on the dogs' registrations (on the grounds that the breed was not one that had eye problems) it seemed rather a waste of time and money. As Patsy says, if we think there is anything wrong we know what to do but I have only heard of one litter with alleged (by the owner, not the breeder) eye problems.

Personally, I think it is very short sighted of the Kennel Club not to keep records until there is a recognised problem because when there is one, that is when you need a record of lines that don't have it.

Gay

www.moonlake.co.uk

 

[anniewhippet]

A very good point Gay, as I already quoted this happened in IW's and they then had a long journey trying to sort out the problem which had been compounded by the time which had elapsed.

By the sharing of information nicely we can hopefully keep our lovely breed just that.

 

[T Hoare]

My scanner has just thrown an epie, so reinstalling softwear and will back soon.

 

[anniewhippet]

My scanner has just thrown an epie, so reinstalling softwear and will back soon.

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:cheers: Tracey, could you look at getting it sized for the text to be clear or (sorry) type it in :blink: :blink: to enable everyone to join in :- " :cheers: