I'm sorry, I have to include a head pic, I didn't have on file until today
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British And American Whippets
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Hi
Please excuse me for diverting from the topic, but I had a personal e-mail and I cannot reply to it. May be my computer, may be that I am a total computer dummy. Will the lady who wrote me privately please e-mail me at windsong@brier.net Thanks and again I apalogize.
Carol
Please excuse me for diverting from the topic, but I had a personal e-mail and I cannot reply to it. May be my computer, may be that I am a total computer dummy. Will the lady who wrote me privately please e-mail me at windsong@brier.net Thanks and again I apalogize.
Carol
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Dosnt mention soft expression in the standard (UK ) only if it were a Beagle, actually says eyes oval, (not almond by the way) bright, expression alert
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I think sometimes that a good diagram can clear up any remaining confusion:
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LOVE IT!! :thumbsup: :lol: :teehee:seaspot_run said:
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some pictures of my girls heads, would be interested to hear comments good or bad..
Maggie..
LOLA
I've always thought her nose was too long?? :b
FAITH.... now this poor girl has an undershot jaw so i know she hasnt got a good head. I love her all the same tho. :wub:
Maggie..
LOLA
I've always thought her nose was too long?? :b
FAITH.... now this poor girl has an undershot jaw so i know she hasnt got a good head. I love her all the same tho. :wub:
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Jokey diagrams aside, there are the following key differences between the US and UK standards with regard to head:
1) US standard asks for head long and lean, fairly wide between the EARS, while UK standard asks for long and lean, fairly wide between the EYES.
2) US standard requires much darker eye and nose color regardless of coat color than is required in the UK or FCI countries.
3) The US standard specifies that the dog should have good underjaw, while the UK standard makes no mention of it.
Then, there are the intangibles. It's my impression that the UK judges and fanciers de-emphasize head properties relative to other properties. The US isn't QUITE as head-centric as the stereotypes would suggest, but there are all-arounders who judge our breed who come from "head" breeds in the Toy and Non-sporting groups and they do tend to emphasize head properties more than our Hound and Breeder judges. Also, ring attitude is MAJOR here, and if a Whippet won't use its ears and won't show good expression and ear carriage, it is going to have a tough time becoming a champion here unless you are able to really study and travel and find the judges who aren't very fanatical about head type and ear carriage.
The varying descriptions of the head are quite important in showing why the head styles do vary between what's considered correct in the UK and what is considered correct in the US. To have the width desired between the eyes sets up a slightly boxier head shape with more width of skull and less chiseled appearance as the muzzle blends into the backskull under the eyes. Also, a slightly pointier muzzle is acceptable in the UK, whereas we want a good, blockier finish with more apparent depth of muzzle below the lipline over here in profile. American heads tend to be more extreme, look a bit more elongated. And our pigment tends to be darker on average.
I don't agree with our wording on pigment, but so far, there aren't enough of us over here who want to see that wording brought in line with FCI to make a difference.
I freely admit to being a major head fanatic. Movement only lasts so long, and muscle tone goes, and the underline can get dumpy with age, but a good head is a joy forever. I feel a typical head is one of the things that distinguishes a show prospect from a solid, sound, honest field dog. There are certainly dogs from working lines, though, which display breed type in the head. That's not to say I'd put a cripple with a great head up over a sound dog with a good body and a mediocre head, but if competition is good, then head type should come into play, IMO.
1) US standard asks for head long and lean, fairly wide between the EARS, while UK standard asks for long and lean, fairly wide between the EYES.
2) US standard requires much darker eye and nose color regardless of coat color than is required in the UK or FCI countries.
3) The US standard specifies that the dog should have good underjaw, while the UK standard makes no mention of it.
Then, there are the intangibles. It's my impression that the UK judges and fanciers de-emphasize head properties relative to other properties. The US isn't QUITE as head-centric as the stereotypes would suggest, but there are all-arounders who judge our breed who come from "head" breeds in the Toy and Non-sporting groups and they do tend to emphasize head properties more than our Hound and Breeder judges. Also, ring attitude is MAJOR here, and if a Whippet won't use its ears and won't show good expression and ear carriage, it is going to have a tough time becoming a champion here unless you are able to really study and travel and find the judges who aren't very fanatical about head type and ear carriage.
The varying descriptions of the head are quite important in showing why the head styles do vary between what's considered correct in the UK and what is considered correct in the US. To have the width desired between the eyes sets up a slightly boxier head shape with more width of skull and less chiseled appearance as the muzzle blends into the backskull under the eyes. Also, a slightly pointier muzzle is acceptable in the UK, whereas we want a good, blockier finish with more apparent depth of muzzle below the lipline over here in profile. American heads tend to be more extreme, look a bit more elongated. And our pigment tends to be darker on average.
I don't agree with our wording on pigment, but so far, there aren't enough of us over here who want to see that wording brought in line with FCI to make a difference.
I freely admit to being a major head fanatic. Movement only lasts so long, and muscle tone goes, and the underline can get dumpy with age, but a good head is a joy forever. I feel a typical head is one of the things that distinguishes a show prospect from a solid, sound, honest field dog. There are certainly dogs from working lines, though, which display breed type in the head. That's not to say I'd put a cripple with a great head up over a sound dog with a good body and a mediocre head, but if competition is good, then head type should come into play, IMO.
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Faith has an overshot jaw not undershot... my bad
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Faith's head, IMO, is good other than not having her lower jaw carry forward quite enough. But her planes are flat, her stop is correct, her muzzle length to backskull length is very correct, and her earset is good. She has one issue. Granted, it's major, but the rest of it is very nice and pleasing.maggiemay2 said:
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Thank you for commenting on Faiths head. Its lovely to get feedback from you guys as you have so much more knowledge.seaspot_run said:Faith's head, IMO, is good other than not having her lower jaw carry forward quite enough. But her planes are flat, her stop is correct, her muzzle length to backskull length is very correct, and her earset is good. She has one issue. Granted, it's major, but the rest of it is very nice and pleasing.maggiemay2 said:
I 've always thought that out of the 3 Maggie has the best head, what do you think? I'd be happy to receive your comments.
)Is Lola's conk (nose) too big in your opinion?
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couple more of lola
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I don't think so.maggiemay2 said:
But those last two pics make her eyes look really big and round
:lol:Quite pleasant, feminine heads on all of them. If anything, Maggie could do with slightly more length to her muzzle.
As Karen said, Faith has one major prob, but otherwise a nice head.
:thumbsup:
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they do actually dont they.....lol.
think i was bribing her with a treat of somesort. :- "
Poor girl though bet she blinked a few times after the flash went off! (w00t)
think i was bribing her with a treat of somesort. :- "
Poor girl though bet she blinked a few times after the flash went off! (w00t)
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Karen is right about our standard not mentioning strength of under jaw, but it does say jaws powerful and clean cut, so a jaw with a weak under jaw would not be powerful anyone who has got the illustrated standard from the breed council it is very clear, the weak muzzle showing a weak under jaw.
In answer to Janis yes expression does say bright and alert, but the expression should be in no way hard.
In answer to Janis yes expression does say bright and alert, but the expression should be in no way hard.
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Don't think Viv Rainsbury will mind, she didn't when I reproduced them in my book.
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Best of Breed winner at Crufts is mainly from english breeding, yet I did detect a bit of an American look about him
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While still on the subject of eyes, do our American friends think that the difference in eye shape between the English and U.S Whippets makes for a difference in expression. Also I believe that in the States there has been eye testing done on Whippets should we take that to mean that a problem has been found?
Nicky
Nicky
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YES hIS DAM IS BY LORICROOK BANDLEADER OWNED BY THOMAS MUNCH IN GERMANY hE WAS BY JAZZ FEST EX NEVEDITH JUST A JIGSAW, SO A COMPLETE MIX OF AMERICAN AND ENGLISH LINES, BUT I DON,T THINK THAT LOVE SUPREME LOOKS AMERICAN AT ALLlorna anne said:
Here's on the left a mostly British bred (http://www.kashia.net/twa/details.php?id=2262&gens=5) male and on the right a mostly American bred (http://www.kashia.net/twa/details.php?id=2264&gens=5) female. I just love both their heads :wub: .
From another angle:
From another angle:
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