British And American Whippets

[fable]

Join our free community today.

Connect with other like-minded dog lovers!

Login or Register

This is covered in the book The New Dogsteps by Rachel Page Elliott, when she explains that as a dog goes faster it's legs will incline inwards to keep it balanced. It's a very useful book - I know lots of you will be familiar with it - worth looking out for a copy .

 

[maggie217]

This is covered in the book The New Dogsteps by Rachel  Page Elliott, when she explains that as a dog goes faster it's legs will incline inwards to keep it balanced. It's a very useful book - I know lots of you will be familiar  with it  - worth looking out for a copy .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Thanks for that, I'll look out for that book. [Another spend on Amazon? :lol: ]

Pauline

 

[ROSIE MEADOWS]

Just another question. Some horses are natural pacers. Does this occur in the dog world (any breed) and if so does it exclude them from showing?

 

[UKUSA]

Once again, back to the Standard! Again nowhere in our breed standard is, pacing, convergind or single tracking called or asked for.

Nicky

 

[ROSIE MEADOWS]

Once again, back to the Standard! Again nowhere in our breed standard is, pacing, convergind or single tracking called or asked for.Nicky

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

That was not my question. I only aked if pacing ever occured (in any breed) and if so did it exclude that dog from showing.

Does it say in the standard that a dog may not pace?

 

[dawn]

Once again, back to the Standard! Again nowhere in our breed standard is, pacing, [SIZE=14pt]convergind ????? [/SIZE]or single tracking called or asked for.Nicky

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

What was that again? :cheers: :cheers:

Nor are they specifically down as being incorrect : nor is plaiting / dishing etc. but do some see, for example, single tracking as erroneous where others may see it as an asset?

This is an area where the standard is not prescriptive and personal preference / interpretation come to the fore - thus, in part, why different dogs win under different judges.

 

[suvi]

At my ringcraft club there was a young pointer that used to pace sometimes but not all the time. Maybe he did it because he was young? They did used to set off round the ring at a cracking pace so maybe he didn't have to to synchronise his brain and legs... (w00t)

 

[UKUSA]

Once again, back to the Standard! Again nowhere in our breed standard is, pacing, [SIZE=14pt]convergind ????? [/SIZE]or single tracking called or asked for.Nicky

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

What was that again? :cheers: :cheers:

Nor are they specifically down as being incorrect : nor is plaiting / dishing etc. but do some see, for example, single tracking as erroneous where others may see it as an asset?

This is an area where the standard is not prescriptive and personal preference / interpretation come to the fore - thus, in part, why different dogs win under different judges.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Sorry about the spelling, was in a bit of a rush as I was on my way out!!!!!!!!

Nicky

 

[UKUSA]

Once again, back to the Standard! Again nowhere in our breed standard is, pacing, convergind or single tracking called or asked for.Nicky

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

That was not my question. I only aked if pacing ever occured (in any breed) and if so did it exclude that dog from showing.

Does it say in the standard that a dog may not pace?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

In answer to your question. Pacing does occur and can occur for a variety of reasons. Maybe because of how the dog is constructed or maybe the dog is being moved incorrectly but no it does not exclude a dog from the ring, whether it would win or not is another question.

Nicky

 

[Natalia]

Yes, please if posting photos as examples it would be best to either use your own dogs or have the owner's permission to use their dog.  We did this once on another board, and we made all the dogs anonymous before critiqueing them by either changing colours, cropping heads, drawing outlines....
Thanks

Wendy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

It was me who showed the picture of Black Orchid. I didn't think about that in categories of criticism of someone else's dog - I don't know why, probably because I like the bitch so much and I was thinking about her as about an example of wonderfully built front and a beautiful dog as a whole. However, you are definitely right - I shouldn't have done it.

Many apologies to anyone who might feel offended, or embarrassed, or upset because of that.

 

[UKUSA]

From Patsy as her internet is down.

When judging you judge the dog as a whole. The most important part is type balance and quality. If I had to make a final decision between two animals one being slightly better in true Whippet type I would forgive a little in movement. At the end of the day a mongrel can be sound. In an ideal world a Whippet should move parallel, when going away from the judge you should not be able to see the front legs and when coming back to the judge you do not see the rear. Then I send them around the ring to see that they are moving with a long easy stride holding their topline. No animal is perfect and a judge has to give in some department or other.

Patsy

 

[ROSIE MEADOWS]

From Patsy as her internet is down.When judging you judge the dog as a whole. The most important part is  type balance and quality. If I had to make a final decision between two animals one being slightly better in true Whippet type I would forgive a little in movement. At the end of the day a mongrel can be sound. In an ideal world a Whippet should move parallel, when going away from the judge you should not be able to see the front legs and when coming back to the judge you do not see the rear. Then I send them around the ring to see that they are moving with a long easy stride holding their topline. No animal is perfect and a judge has to give in some department or other.

Patsy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

This is an answer to part of my original question i.e. if moving on two tracks was something to be desired. Perhaps the terminology was wrong for you.

Thank you for the answer.

I guess from this answer that different judges put more emphasis on maybe topline or movement or height. If I understand correctly it is up to the individual judge to decide which is the most important to them. Are all "faults" equal?

 

[seaspot_run]

Pacing is a fatigue or transitional gait in the dog. Dogs are supposed to be gaited at the walk or the trot and pacing is neither...so, it's usually just a matter of popping them into the right speed to get them out of a pace.

To my knowledge, the only breed standard that acknowledges the pace as one of the gaits of the breed is the Old English Sheepdog standard (AKC--I've not looked at the UK standard), which says:

When trotting, movement is free and powerful, seemingly effortless, with good reach and drive, and covering maximum ground with minimum steps. Very elastic at a gallop. May amble or pace at slower speeds.

So, I take if a judge saw an OES pacing in the ring when he was being moved slowly, it would not be faulted.

As for the converging or single-tracking thing, a lot of breeds do specify that the gait at trot should converge slightly at speed, and some standards call for single-tracking (which is converging all the way to a single line of travel. One of these standards is the Canadian standard for the Greyhound.

The USA and the UK standard do not specify convergence. Therefore, it is to be assumed that parallel tracking is correct, but some convergence could also be correct as this is generally the way that many good trotting breeds standards' are worded.

I assume that single-tracking is not correct, because if that is desired, then the standards of other breeds always state that specifically.

I was just curious what others thought--do you like Whippets to parallel-track or converge slightly?

This is NOT a difference in the standards between the UK and the USA.

USA: When moving and viewed from front or rear, legs should turn neither in nor out, nor should feet cross or interfere with each other.

Lack of front reach or rear drive, or a short, hackney gait with high wrist action, should be strictly penalized. Crossing in front or moving too close should be strictly penalized.

 

UK:True coming and going.

I don't think there is a difference in the gait between countries based solely on the standard. I would say that the USA standard uses a lot more words to say essentially the same thing--that the dog should move true. Which means sound and aesthetically pleasing, with no lateral or rotational wasted motion.

 

[patsy]

our orginal standard on the whippet was a lot more descriptive, listing faults,and good on the Americans for keeping them in I think you question and learn more ,I remember as a teenager asking Bobby James what a wheel back was, he took me to a class of whippets and pointed one out.

Now the standard says to the degree of the fault, not just whippets, all breeds. I still maintain that type must come above everything else. I quite agree with Karen on pacing, and yes if it was a stunning animal in all departments I would forgive a slightly close movement, but animals being equal and you are splitting hairs the best mover gets the nod.

 

[Judy]

Whether it is mentioned in the standard or not, I think it's a matter of biomechanics. The faster it moves, the more a long legged dog with a high centre of gravity has to converge in order to shift the support (provided by the paws touching the ground) under the centre of gravity. Wide trackers tend to have a more rolling gait as the centre of gravity has to be shifted over the supports instead of vice versa.

 

[seaspot_run]

our orginal standard on the whippet was a lot more descriptive, listing faults,and good on the Americans for keeping them in I think you question and learn more ,I remember as a teenager asking Bobby James what a wheel back was, he took me to a class of whippets and pointed one out.  Now the standard says to the degree of the fault, not just whippets, all breeds. I still maintain that type must come above everything else. I quite agree with Karen on pacing, and yes if it was a stunning animal in all departments I would forgive a slightly close movement, but animals being equal and you are splitting hairs the best mover gets the nod.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yes, well, I agree with all that.

It goes back to the heart of the original discussion on this thread. There are things in the standards (both AKC and UK) which are very cut-and-dried but there is a lot of room for personal choice and taste, and I think parallel tracking vs. converging slightly is one of those areas where the standard leaves room for interpretation by judge and breeder.

I would also put up a dog of superb type with a movement flaw over a dog of middling type that moved well. This situation happens quite often in the ring, when judging.

I guess that in some breeds, the distinctive nature of the gait is part of the type of the breed, but with Whippets, I don't think our trotting gait sets our breed apart in any way...it's not really an aspect of type. Our breed should trot well, smoothly, soundly, and pleasing to the eye, with enough strength and elasticity so that it looks athletic, but you could say that about a lot of breeds. The working gait of the Whippet is the double-suspension gallop and you can't see that in the ring at all.

So, yes, a dog with superior type, outline, and make but minor movement flaws should defeat a dog of average type who has great movement---IMO. Major movement flaws and the dog shouldn't get a big win as soundness doesn't make a breed a breed, but it does make a member of a breed a show-quality animal. Great movers, especially if male, tend to earn their laurels in the litterbox.

 

[anniewhippet]

A most interesting topic, I am sorry that I have come into so late when it has now raised so many different questions, in so many different ways.

But for those out there who have enjoyed the line drawings etc I suggest they purchase the new Illustrated Breed Standard produced by The Breed Council. In this you get the written & illustrated 'blueprint' for our breed in the UK, and blueprint it is.

I agree there could be more 'extended' explanations in certain areas but where do you stop and I am now very pleased that we have a better description than before of certain areas i.e the front etc.

As to the original question, UK & USA type, and I admit that I can only answer this really via pictures seen & a few dogs, there does seem to be a slight variation to me. However this does not mean that the use of these, and the European dogs, cannot add something good to the UK bred whippet as we are already seeing in the rings today, when it has been carefully thought out by the breeder.

Correct or not I was told by an 'old timer' that pacing was the most economical form of movement! And as to the Dogsteps book, it was also available on video! gosh that shows my age in the era of DVD's......

 

[kris]

This is covered in the book The New Dogsteps by Rachel  Page Elliott, when she explains that as a dog goes faster it's legs will incline inwards to keep it balanced. It's a very useful book - I know lots of you will be familiar  with it  - worth looking out for a copy .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Thanks for that, I'll look out for that book. [Another spend on Amazon? :lol: ]

Pauline

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

McDowell Lyons 'the dog in action' is an excellent book on movement too.ive had my copy for over 20 years :thumbsup:

pacing is the most economical gait thats why tired or ill dogs use it a lot. also if they are badly built

 

[maggie217]

This is covered in the book The New Dogsteps by Rachel  Page Elliott, when she explains that as a dog goes faster it's legs will incline inwards to keep it balanced. It's a very useful book - I know lots of you will be familiar  with it  - worth looking out for a copy .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Thanks for that, I'll look out for that book. [Another spend on Amazon? :lol: ]

Pauline

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

McDowell Lyons 'the dog in action' is an excellent book on movement too.ive had my copy for over 20 years :thumbsup:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Cheers Kris. The Page Elliott book is expensive, will look out for "The Dog in Action" also. Annie says the New Dogsteps was on video, will have to see if it is put onto DVD. Would love to see one or both of them...but it's a long time to next Xmas

Pauline

 

[Judy]

McDowell Lyons 'the dog in action' is an excellent book on movement too.ive had my copy for over 20 years :thumbsup:
pacing is the most economical gait thats why tired or ill dogs use it a lot. also if they are badly built

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

This is a good book but it was written in the 50's and modern techniques have proved that some of it is not right. It was just about the first book written on the subject and I think McDowell Lyon was a horse man and based his theories on horses, some of which weren't really applicable to dogs

If your interested in the subject as well as Dogsteps you could try -

Dog Locomotion and Gait Analysis - Curtis Brown

K9 Structure and Terminology - Gilbert And Brown

The Dynamics Of Canine Gait - Leon Hollenbeck.