Doggy Contraception

[harvyandkev]

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All I would say is that even excellent breeding can produce inferior dogs, hence me asking what has or will these dogs achieve to justify breeding them?I read earlier this week the availability of whippets pups is overwhelming at the moment, realisitically what gives yours the edge over everyone elses?

Please don't think I'm being critical of your dogs, I'm not but you've got to realise that those who do breed for a purpose will produce their own pups that they consider themselves to be inferior and will sell on to pet homes. Then you've got the unscrupulous breeder producing puppies for financial gain. There is a lot of competition out there and the only way your breeding will stand out is if they're superior to the market. Your vet claims they are outstanding examples, physically that may well be and credit goes to you for this.   However to demonstrate they really are outstanding requires a lot of effort and expense at promoting your dogs in their particular field (be it racing, showing, lure coursing etc) but if they are succesful you will be rewarded with achievements and  a waiting list of eager buyers. The irony being that you'll probably wait a lot longer before you do breed because your busy gaining these achievements.

I suppose I'm sort of saying just take time out and enjoy your dogs you'll get far much pleasure than any litter of puppies can provide - especially when the whole birth thing carrys a bunch of risks in itself that can bring so much heartache as any experienced breeder could tell you.

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Thanks for your post - this is the kind of advice we were initially looking for.

Thanks again

 

[harvyandkev]

After 3 days this is the first opportunity we have had to log on, and we are astounded by the responses we have seen so far - Not in a positive sense.  Lets just clarify a few points.
If you read back to our original post, we came on here for sound advice on how to PREVENT pregnancy in the least invasive way possible.

With regards to the question of potential, rest assured that our whips come from champion bloodlines and have been assessed by our Vet as outstanding breed examples. This has pleased us as we waited along time, and travelled a considerable distance in order to get the right pets for us.  This also involved a lot of research in to bloodlines and temperament.

To quote we have not bought our dogs "just to breed off" they are our family pets and form part of a very loving home.  They are lucky enough to live in a large house with an acres paddock as well as their own fenced off private area including luxury kennels that even we would stay in LOL.  We are lucky enough to come from a farming family, which means we do know a lot about animals and livestock and are fortunate to have many years experience.

It seems many of you have assumed that this is a commercial venture we know as well as any other experienced breeder that there is not much money to be made.  We have the time to dedicate to this and want to raise a litter or two of our own to build upon our whippet family and ensure the continuity of very strong bloodlines.

We have been misquoted in the suggestion that we intend to breed “as soon and often as possible” inferring we intend to do this is both untrue and upsetting.  May we remind you at this point that our OP was about PREVENTING a pregnancy for the foreseeable future.  We care dearly about our bitch and do not want to see her pregnant as any responsible owner would appreciate.

Its amazing how through the transition of this post we have we have gone from being caring, established whippet owners, with a beautiful home to offer our babies through to “Gypsies” we are upset that we have been judged so harshly – and we feel you should reflect upon your posts and reconsider the extent of the comments you have made.

If anybody would like to see pictures of our adorable whippets or would like to speak to us about this further then please contact us via E-Mail as our experience of these forums to date, and the information their members provide has so far proved to be nothing more than opinionated gossip and group lynching.

Harvy and Kev

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Hello Harvy and Kev, I am glad you did check back on here and I hope you will stay around.

If you read back all the posts I made in relation to your OP, you will see I've referred to points made directly by yourself (ie to start breeding at your bitch's 3rd season - which could potentially happen at 18 months of age; also you stated "she will eventually have a few litters" - so that did suggest/infer your bitch would be having more than one or 2 litters).

I also stated in a couple of my posts that I did not wish to be intentionally rude but I stand by all the posts I made. I commented on statements you had made - perhaps in your keen-ness to post originally (to get contraceptive advice?) you may not have worded your OP in the best way?

(And as we've already covered lots of times, the best contraceptive for dogs and bitches is to keep them firmly apart, in separate parts of your house etc, throughout your bitch's entire season!!!).

I would agree with previous posters that perhaps a Vet (unless a Whippet expert) is not the best person to assess whether a bitch should be bred from - sure a Vet can say whether a bitch is healthy or not but they are not usually in possession of enough knowledge about a breed to make a qualified statement. Plenty of pet pedigree dogs (and here again I do not intend to be rude or patronising) have wonderful pedigrees on paper - the most common thing you hear from pet owners is "there are loads of Champions in my dog's pedigree"; "it's full of 'red writing'!" etc etc - and yes they have every right to be proud of their pet - there'd be something wrong if they didn't love it).

However that does not make a dog or bitch, ideal to be bred from themselves.

The best way to tell, is to go back to the bitch's breeder when she is mature, and ask their opinion. We all have to start somewhere and I am presuming the breeder of your bitch is an experienced, established breeder of Whippets, whose advice will prove invaluable should you decide to breed in the future. If your bitch is from very strong bloodlines though, is there a need to perpetuate them? Surely her breeder is doing that already, in an established breeding programme?

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Thank you for your post, incidently our Vet is a Greyhound/Whippet expert and we have been consulting with him for the last year. We understand that pedigree alone should not be a basis for breeding or expecting superior litters howver we are confident in our dogs abilities and we thank you for the points you raised. We know from previous experience that breeding and raising a litter can be a very rewarding experience, if you put in the hard work, time and effort.

We never found your posts rude or offensive, a sensible difference of opinion is always constructive!

 

[harvyandkev]

ARGOS1 – HOW DISSAPOINTING we would now like to set the record straight.

We did visit to view Phoebe as a potential addition whilst we were searching for our second dog, this is whilst we were considering re-homing as an option, as we too never want to see whippets or any other dogs left without a home. I would just like to remind you that it was us that rejected phoebe (check your old emails) as we said we didn’t think we could keep the lifestyle she is used to. This was a polite way of saying she wasn’t what we were looking for, as we really didn’t want to offend you in your time of need. As you have been so opinionated towards us in your posts perhaps now we can give our real reasons for not homing your dog.

We are concerned that Phoebe is fed allsorts of dangerous foods including High Sugar sweets, Cakes and Cappuccino! A cappuccino every morning for a human may give a kick start for us, but for a dog Caffeine every morning can cause can cause tremors, heart arrhythmias, and seizures. Phoebe appeared nervous, which compared to our boy’s excellent social skills, may be easier to manage, but is certainly not a positive temperament of a dog! We were also disturbed by you comments on Phoebe eating a whole pack of margarine which gave her “A glossy coat for a week”. Of course our dogs are partial to a treat every now and then, however we would never give our dogs the things you said you gave Phoebe, we know you love her, but this is not doing the best for your dog’s health.

We found Phoebe not up to breed standard, and although our long-term aim is to have a litter of pups, we would have not used Phoebe for this as quite simply she isn’t suitable. It probably wasn’t the best idea on your behalf to advertise her as “un-neutered 2 year old Bitch” if you were so dead against her being bred from anyhow! (I understand that we were not the only ones to complete 160 mile round trip in order to offer assistance in your time of need – you were fortunate enough to have such a good response) Incidentally we are not looking to continually breed our bitch as you infer.

And as for you “taking our little girl” I think not….. Never would we let her go to a home where her life is put at risk from an unhealthy diet, and to be couped up in a garden the size of a postage stamp, with by your own admission, a lack of ability to exercise the dogs as freely as needed. Whippets need to have the space to run and in our opinion your home is suited to a smaller more docile breed. (Besides our dogs are inseparable, eat, sleep and run together, your suggestion of re-homing any one of them is deeply offensive and implies neglect!)

We conclude that on this occasion your much mentioned “gut instinct” about us was wrong, and we are surprised you can form such strong opinions, when you saw for yourselves how much we love and adore our boy! (Even if he is a bit of a lively character – it all adds to the fun of keeping a whippet)

Harvy and Kev

 

[joe90]

With regards to the question of potential, rest assured that our whips come from champion bloodlines

its not as simple as well they come from champion backgrounds so therefore thats good enough reason to breed the, it doesnt work like that im afraid

 

[T Hoare]

I do not wish to interfere but perhaps you could have pm'd argos1 with your reasons not to have phoebe, with maybe a basic outline on the site.

From some posts on this site things can get very personal and nasty, please don't let this become that.

 

[harvyandkev]

With regards to the question of potential, rest assured that our whips come from champion bloodlines



its not as simple as well they come from champion backgrounds so therefore thats good enough reason to breed the, it doesnt work like that im afraid

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Agreed and I think we have clarified this point already

 

[harvyandkev]

I do not wish to interfere but perhaps you could have pm'd argos1 with your reasons not to have phoebe, with maybe a basic outline on the site.From some posts on this site things can get very personal and nasty, please don't let this become that.

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Indeed, that is not our intention, however we did not want people to make negative assumptions about us from the context of Argos1's post and felt the need to clarify via the forum.

This matter is now concluded

 

[wilfred]

Thank you for your post, incidently our Vet is a Greyhound/Whippet expert and we have been consulting with him for the last year.

Oh that's good. Who is he - does he exhibit or breed for show or racing? What bloodlines does he have personal experience of? I wish my vets had personal extensive knowledge of sighthounds - they know the physical stuff but not the personal knowledge of particular lines etc.

To get a vet who actually knew the dogs you talk about in pedigrees etc - now that is something!

 

[nicky12]

Thank you for your post, incidently our Vet is a Greyhound/Whippet expert and we have been consulting with him for the last year.

Oh that's good. Who is he - does he exhibit or breed for show or racing? What bloodlines does he have personal experience of? I wish my vets had personal extensive knowledge of sighthounds - they know the physical stuff but not the personal knowledge of particular lines etc.

To get a vet who actually knew the dogs you talk about in pedigrees etc - now that is something!

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well im lucky enough to have a vet who actualy ownes two whippets and has good personal knolage of particular lines ext ,a plus in my book :cheers: although i have to watch she doesnt pinch tia when shes ther ,iv caught her trying to sneak of with her on 2 occasions :- "

 

[joe90]

With regards to the question of potential, rest assured that our whips come from champion bloodlines



its not as simple as well they come from champion backgrounds so therefore thats good enough reason to breed the, it doesnt work like that im afraid

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Agreed and I think we have clarified this point already

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not being funny but after reading your original post and posts the comments you have had from people you have brought on yourself

 

[harvyandkev]

With regards to the question of potential, rest assured that our whips come from champion bloodlines



its not as simple as well they come from champion backgrounds so therefore thats good enough reason to breed the, it doesnt work like that im afraid

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Agreed and I think we have clarified this point already

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not being funny but after reading your original post and posts the comments you have had from people you have brought on yourself

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Not here to debate that - I refer back to my OP

 

[harvyandkev]

Thank you for your post, incidently our Vet is a Greyhound/Whippet expert and we have been consulting with him for the last year.

Oh that's good. Who is he - does he exhibit or breed for show or racing? What bloodlines does he have personal experience of? I wish my vets had personal extensive knowledge of sighthounds - they know the physical stuff but not the personal knowledge of particular lines etc.

To get a vet who actually knew the dogs you talk about in pedigrees etc - now that is something!

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well im lucky enough to have a vet who actualy ownes two whippets and has good personal knolage of particular lines ext ,a plus in my book :cheers: although i have to watch she doesnt pinch tia when shes ther ,iv caught her trying to sneak of with her on 2 occasions :- "

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I must admit, we value the expertise and consider ourselves lucky that our local surgery has such and expert that people have to travel for miles to see! There is a re-homing centre for retired Greyhounds close to where we live, so that keeps him on his toes too!

 

[saraquele]

there are different views / opinions on why / when / if to breed a litter .

I PERSONALLY would never breed a dog that had not proved its worth in its chosen sphere , i would never breed a bitch before she is AT LEAST 2 1/2 years old , i would always line breed with the help of my bitches breeder .

I would only ever breed a litter if I wanted to keep at least 1 pup to carry on my lines and had a decent waiting list for puppies too .

BUT as i say thats MY OPINION , that is right for me and my dogs and with those views i can sleep at night knowing i have my dogs and future puppies best interest at heart .

these are your dogs and you will breed them no matter what anyone on here says , all the advise i can give you is the minuet your girl starts her season keep her well away from the male ! they can open doors / climb/jump fences so much more than you could ever imagine .

there is an injection that your dog or bitch can have , but your vet will be able to advise you on theese but again nothing is fool proof so never take your eyes off them .

its better if you can board the dog or bitch somewhere else while she is in season .

bitches can keep themselfes in season for weeks so you can not let your guard down untill you are 100% sure your male is not interested in her or her in him .

she is only 6 months old so it may be a while before she comes in season , one of mine was 13 months before she had her first but the other was 7 months old so there are no hard and fast rules .

 

[harvyandkev]

there are different views / opinions on why / when / if to breed a litter .
I PERSONALLY  would never breed a dog that had not proved its worth in its chosen sphere , i would never breed a bitch before she is AT LEAST 2 1/2 years old , i would always line breed with the help of my bitches breeder .

I would only ever breed a litter if I wanted to keep at least 1 pup to carry on my lines and had a decent waiting list for puppies too .

BUT as i say thats MY OPINION  , that is right for me and my dogs and with those views i can sleep at night knowing i have my dogs and future puppies best interest at heart .

these are your dogs and you will breed them no matter what anyone on here says , all the advise i can give you is the minuet your girl starts her season keep her well away from the male !  they can open doors / climb/jump fences so much more than you could ever imagine .

there is an injection that your dog or bitch can have , but your vet will be able to advise you on theese but again nothing is fool proof so never take your eyes off them .

its better if you can board the dog or bitch somewhere else while she is in season .

bitches can keep themselfes in season for weeks so you can not let your guard down untill you are 100% sure your male is not interested in her or her in him .

she is only 6 months old so it may be a while before she comes in season , one of mine was 13 months before she had her first but the other was 7 months old so there are no hard and fast rules .

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Thanks for the advice - much apprieciated!

 

[AnnSa]

I do not wish to interfere but perhaps you could have pm'd argos1 with your reasons not to have phoebe, with maybe a basic outline on the site.From some posts on this site things can get very personal and nasty, please don't let this become that.

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Indeed, that is not our intention, however we did not want people to make negative assumptions about us from the context of Argos1's post and felt the need to clarify via the forum.

This matter is now concluded

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Do you mean concluded by you.............or you have spoken to Kat and Lorna,

who are not at all bothered with you announcing on a public forum how badly

they are treating Phoebe ??????????

Some things are best taken private.

 

[harvyandkev]

I do not wish to interfere but perhaps you could have pm'd argos1 with your reasons not to have phoebe, with maybe a basic outline on the site.From some posts on this site things can get very personal and nasty, please don't let this become that.

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Indeed, that is not our intention, however we did not want people to make negative assumptions about us from the context of Argos1's post and felt the need to clarify via the forum.

This matter is now concluded

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Do you mean concluded by you.............or you have spoken to Kat and Lorna,

who are not at all bothered with you announcing on a public forum how badly

they are treating Phoebe ??????????

Some things are best taken private.

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We dont think there is any mileage in going over old ground.

Thank you to those who have provided sensible responses both via e-mail and the forum. The advice regarding our questions has been valid and understood.

We will not be responding to any other forum post regarding this matter as we feel that people are going off a a tangent somewhat.

As a first time user of this site, it has been interesting and we hope that future posters will not be put off from asking questions in view of what apears to be a very opinionated and slighlty mis-guided minority.

Thank You

 

[AnnSa]

 

[hely]

[SIZE=14pt]High Sugar sweets, Cakes and Cappuccino![/SIZE]

Nooooooooooo

thats terrible

 

[argos1]

:wub: sweets cake 3 chickens a week kisses cuddles walks runs plays clothes beds love whatever next what rotten parents we are!!! lmao

 

[nicky12]

High Sugar sweets, Cakes and Cappuccino

:- " ooo god im guilty shoot me now and come rescue me poor whippies :- "