Neutering (again)

[ILoveKettleChips]

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None of us would have bits cut out! Are you mad? But these aren't people in furry coats, these are dogs ... animals which we keep in abnormal environments under abnormal conditions because it is our whim. We need to act in accordance with this ... despite common assumptions the natural habitat of a dog is not on the sofa!

And to sate your interest, I have been qualified just over a year (which I expect makes most, if not all, of my opinions null and void (or am I getting a bit defensive ...? :- " ) ... )

 

[alfyn]

And to sate your interest, I have been qualified just over a year (which I expect makes most, if not all, of my opinions null and void (or am I getting a bit defensive ...?  :- " ) ...  )

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no,just sounds to me as if you're just getting paranoid(& sarcastic)!

 

[~Helen~]

And to sate your interest, I have been qualified just over a year (which I expect makes most, if not all, of my opinions null and void (or am I getting a bit defensive ...?  :- " ) ...  )

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no,just sounds to me as if you're just getting paranoid(& sarcastic)!

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oh come on, how's that helping the debate. Stay on topic, can't you?

 

[dawn]

The sole purpose of neutering an animal is to prevent them bearing offspring. Whatever justification is used as ‘THE reason’ the effect is the same a dog/cat etc which cannot sire/deliver offspring. The arguments for neutering are manifold and some are valid such as unwanted pregnancies what I do not agree as being a valid argument are those where neutering as used as a prophylactic for such as pyometra, mammary or testicular tumours. The use of neutering as means to prevent the alleged mess of a season and the argument of ‘30 dogs around the door’ is abhorrent to me - these people must be included in the ‘irresponsible’ owners grouping. This group are interested solely in self and not the bitch and by using validation from the vet justifying(sic) that neutering is the best welfare for the bitch as a means to defend their own actions. In cases such as this why not have a male dog?

As for prophylactic neutering for prevent of tumours etc is this a valid argument for any animal, including man? A valid counter argument is that docking and removal of dew-claws is used prophylactically but there seems to be a very strong anti lobby for these actions partly including many of those in the veterinary profession. How those vets can justify dew-claw removal as being unnecessary yet removal of the uterus as being a benefit is beyond me.

Personally having been around female dogs since the mid 1950’s none of whom have been speyed I have no experience of particularly messy bitches when in season, have never had 30 dogs at the door – in fact never had ANY male dog at the door - and have never had any problem with pyometra mammary tumours etc.

What is the frequency of these problems in entire bitches – does it vary breed to breed – is it more common in pedigree dogs or mongrels? Maybe someone can enlighten us.

As far as age for neutering – this is an irrelevant question as it is not necessary however I would agree that should the operation be done the bitch should be mature.

I have read that owners should be informed by their vet as to the benefits or otherwise of neutering. How many vets will give a balanced answer as they are bound to be biased either pro or anti the neutering debat, similarly with docking and dew-claw removal.

Richard (not Dawn) on this occasion

 

[JAX]

Did one tell you then , that they prefered having all their female organs taken out ! 

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The answer is no. But their owners preferred it.

Please answer my question - it'd be interesting for me to try and understand why you feel age makes a difference to the dog's welfare.

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I would have thought THAT was clearly obvious . A G/ A for starters ! . As I said in a previos post `i know of more than one puppy who didnt make it , So why risk it .

Hormone levels are bound to change , Im not qualified or have a degree like you , but commen sense tells me that they havn`t matured . their body still has lots of changes to make . My neighbour had a lovely Pomerainion ( sp) puppy :wub: , he played non stop , She had him castrated ,on her vets advice at 9 months :rant: and he went from being a puppy to an old dog practically over night His coat texture changed and he put on weight . her fault , she knows ,) but he never played like he used .

I thought that last post must be you Richard :- " . Too many long words for Dawn :lol: g

 

[dawn]

I thought that last post must be you Richard  . Too many long words for Dawn

Cheeky bugger! :wacko:

Dawn not Richard this time!

Edited by Richard

I have had much more experience with bitches than Dawn does !!

 

[JAX]

I thought that last post must be you Richard  . Too many long words for Dawn

Cheeky bugger! :wacko:

Dawn not Richard this time!

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Yep , youve just proved my point Dawn :- " No word over 6 letters :lol:

Just noticed , its my 2 year anniversery on K9 today :cheers:

 

[dawn]

Edited by RichardI have had much more experience with bitches than Dawn does !!

Is that the four legged or the two??? (w00t)

Dawn

 

[alfyn]

I thought that last post must be you Richard  . Too many long words for Dawn

Cheeky bugger! :wacko:

Dawn not Richard this time!

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Yep , youve just proved my point Dawn :- " No word over 6 letters :lol:

Just noticed , its my 2 year anniversery on K9 today :cheers:

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Now who's going off topic & not getting ticked off for it either? :- "

 

[jools]

Just wanted to difuse the situation slightly -

:cheers: [SIZE=14pt]happy 2nd ANNIVERSARY JAX [/SIZE] :cheers:

 

[Lanakeshena]

Just reading this, very interesting views, i personally would not have any dog of mine neutured, without good reason, and i mean if they were ill and it was essential. i have 5 bitches including one xbred, they still go on my bed and sofa and get walked when they are in season, it makes no difference. its no big deal for me and my family.

I too have had no problems and never had dogs round my door when they are in season.

I prefer to leave them as they were made, as nature intended.

But that is my choice.

 

[rottie]

I'm seriously considering having Basil done using two housebricks and a quick slam...

for some reason I am considered in his eyes to be worthy prey when the girls are in season for "shagging" when he cant get to the bitches he comes for me....

he has a wicked twinkle in the eye and I definitly have to watch my back....

:blink:

 

[alfyn]

Having his bits chopped off probably won't stop him from doing that!

 

[~Helen~]

I thought that last post must be you Richard  . Too many long words for Dawn

Cheeky bugger! :wacko:

Dawn not Richard this time!

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Yep , youve just proved my point Dawn :- " No word over 6 letters :lol:

Just noticed , its my 2 year anniversery on K9 today :cheers:

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Now who's going off topic & not getting ticked off for it either? :- "

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Oh grow up. Some of us have better things to do on a Saturday night than sit glued to the computer in case someone volunteers to have their bottom slapped. Honestly, I go off for a curry and a pint, and you're scrapping like... well, I was going to say bitches but under the circumstances that seems unfair to the canine variety :- " :wacko:

Back on topic - I have linked this to FAQ and it would be nice to see a good, varied, balanced, and informed debate so that people who come to K9 can read as much information as possible and then make their own mind up should they be about to make the decision for or against having their own dog/bitch neutered. Perhaps those who have, or are planning to have their dog neutered (for whatever reason) would like to add to the debate? Kirsty had some interesting things to say earlier... or is everyone too terrified to speak? Please don't be intimidated by the more forceful members. Everyone should be given a chance to be heard here :thumbsup:

Having not yet made up my own mind, I'm quite interested in the view that a bitch isn't in season for 90% of the time, so neutering merely perpetuates their "normal" state all year round. Any views?

 

[JAX]

Not all bitches have `seasons`every 6 months > Mine vary from 6 to 11 months , So if you have bitch thats every 11 months , if she lives to , say 14 , she might only have 15 o r so `seasons ` in her life time , Not too many really :- " . My Libbee didnt have her first season until she was nearly 14 months , as did Mikkee , and shes went another 9 months for her 2nd . Not too much of an incionvience really is it . I have a mixedi sex household too :- " , and manage quite easily to keep them apart ` at the right time ` with no problems at all :luck: Neither do I have any problems with stray dogs at my gate , and the girls go out as normal , ( not with the boys of course )

I must admit though , it would be handy if ALL my girls came nto season at the same time :wacko:

 

[~JO~]

Well I'm a really dreadful owner then arent I?
Both Star & Leia are happy, healthy, well socilalised and much loved family members, who happen to be speyed.  Where is the problem?

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Rae, I hope I didn't give any impression in my post that anyone who neuters their dog is an awful owner, I don't think that at all.

But its the fact it is seen as such a 'routine' step. Of course I know you wouldn't have seen it this way, but my point is it just would be nice that all owners were perhaps given all the full facts on both sides of the arguments.

Yes, many of the opinions on here are very strongly felt but it is perhaps a bit unfair for those members to be called 'forceful', I for one was just voicing my opinion in a way that I hope it didn't make anyone feel they couldn't voice their opinion either.

As we ALL know this is a very heated topic and was always going to raise a few peoples blood pressure! :wacko:

What I find quite interesting is that if a neutered male visits all our entire males, they act in the same way as if it is a bitch :wacko: You know the old dribbling wobbly jaw thing.

 

[alfyn]

h grow up. Some of us have better things to do on a Saturday night than sit glued to the computer in case someone volunteers to have their bottom slapped. Honestly, I go off for a curry and a pint, and you're scrapping like... well, I was going to say bitches but under the circumstances that seems unfair to the canine variety :- "  :wacko:

Are you unable to realise that our comments were"lighthearted" Helen? I am perfectly "grown up" thankyou & no,i didn't have anything better to do last night,for a change!

Considering all the posts you have made,you have a bloody cheek to make a pathetic comment like that!And,i consider your comment as "scrapping",which makes you just as bad

 

[Mark Roberts]

Why is it no one can have a debate about anything without it turning into a full scale slag each other off.

I have my opinions that I feel strongly are right but I accept that otheres might think differantly.

Lets keep it to descussing the topic and not personal attacks

 

[Rae]

Why is it no one can have a debate about anything without it turning into a full scale slag each other off.
I have my opinions that I feel strongly are right but I accept that otheres might think differantly.

Lets keep it to descussing the topic and not personal attacks

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Mark Roberts - the voice of reason (w00t) :thumbsup:

Helen - what you have said is exactly how I feel about neutering bitches. As they are not in season all of the time it maintains their normal state. I never intend to breed from any of my girls so it made sense to do it while they were young while the risks were much lower.

Having said that, neither Holly or Tie were speyed when we got them. Tie is now 9 years old and I'm wondering if it is still the right thing to do to spey her. Is it still worth it from a health point of view - what if they find something when they are in there, etc. If anyone has views on having an older bitch speyed I'd be interested. I dont intend to have Holly speyed as I think it will be too much for her given her other problems. Her seasons are really heavy, blood dripping everywhere and she really hates it when I leave her behind as she normally comes everywhere with me. (And I hate it too )

Vader gets all arsey when they are in season, patrolling the fence and growling at other dogs. There's no doubt it's a stresssful time for him. Due to the nature of our business it means we do get dogs hanging around the fence when they are in season so they have to be shut in the house, even on nice sunny days. To me, that is worse than an op that they would be over in a week.

Dogs however, always have testicles, so I actually think it is a bigger decision to castrate a dog than spey a bitch.

In this day and age an aneasthetic should not be a risk really. All of my bunnies are neutered, and so are my male gpigs - it means they can all live harmoniously in large groups, or pairs, rather than alone. Never ever have I lost an animal whilst being neutered because a - they were healthy and b - I trusted the vet and was happy with the aneasthetic protocol being used.

Jax is quoting a puppy that died whilst being neutered - was this puppy healthy in the first place? Was the Vet 100% competent and using a good safe anesthetic protocol?

My advice would be - do your research and if it what is best for your dog and family circumstances then go for it. Everyones circumstances are different. Just make sure you are happy with the Vet that will be doing it.

Jo - you didnt offend me personally. I'm happy with the decision that I made. I was just trying to piont out that it takes more than one thing to give a dog a good quality of life.

 

[JAX]

Jax is quoting a puppy that died whilst being neutered - was this puppy healthy in the first place? Was the Vet 100% competent and using a good safe anesthetic protocol?

It wasnt one of my puppys , but belonged to a whippet person of high regard and was 100% fit and healthy and the vet used the correct anesthetic. I dont know wether they asked for a post mortum .

I had Mayzee spayed at 8 years . as she also had mammery tumours , When she came home she had a vest on and looked like Reb C Nespitt :lol: Afer an overnight stay at the vets , when brought home the first thing she did was run up stairs (w00t) . Whippets are quite remarkable arnt they . Shes now 13 yrs and completly healthy . i would worry a little if your girl has really heavy seasons ( but dont want to worry you too much , if you know what I mean )

We all do what we think is best