Poor Blues And Blacks Again

[aslan]

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I don't think I'm obsessed, I'm just intrigued how the 'coloured' whippet over the years seems to have been left to the dedicated few, and that the focus in the ring seems to have been on all other colours, when black/blue should be just as abundantly present in the ring as any other colour. Technically speaking, in our breed, blacks and blues should not be the minority.

 

[Mychaka]

I don't think I'm obsessed, I'm just intrigued how the 'coloured' whippet over the years seems to have been left to the dedicated few, and that the focus in the ring seems to have been on all other colours, when black/blue should be just as abundantly present in the ring as any other colour.  Technically speaking, in our breed, blacks and blues should not be the minority.

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I'm reading this thread as with the other threads on this topic with great interest. Lana maybe the answer in there not being many blue/blacks in the ring is like my first encounter with an Aust. breeder who I told her of my love of blue's only to be shockling told by her "what on earth do you want one of those for their the first in the bucket". She's still a major breeder here in Aust. and as I'm seeing some of the dogs she got now I'm waiting for the day she shows a blue

I feel the prejudice against the 'colours' stem from a generation of breeders who decided the flashy parti-colours were the only way to win, this in turn had judges only being presented parti-colours and when a 'coloured' whippet entered the ring (like now-a-days) it looks so out of place to them that most are unwilling to put them up in classes so exhibitors lose heart in showing them especially when they are placed behind in class to a dog (conformation wise) inferior to them.

I'm slowly seeing a change in attitude to 'coloured' whippets but still a long way to go before what I know is a dream of so many whippet lovers that any colour or combination of colours is accepted on an even score in the show ring.

In the meantime I'll continue to show my mottley crew of various colours.

Cristina

Mychaka Whippets

 

[dessie]

I don't think I'm obsessed, I'm just intrigued how the 'coloured' whippet over the years seems to have been left to the dedicated few, and that the focus in the ring seems to have been on all other colours, when black/blue should be just as abundantly present in the ring as any other colour.  Technically speaking, in our breed, blacks and blues should not be the minority.

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I agree, Lana, and certainly blacks/blue & their particolour variants seem to be in abundance within the racing/coursing fraternity, it is just in the show ring you do not see many and those that are come from the same lines all the time.

I am not obsessed by them either but my raison d'etre at the moment is that my two remaining blacks are getting very old and failing in health so will not be with my much longer unfortunately, and I would like another black or blue, preferably bred by myself as my New Year's Resolution was not to buy in any more Whippets and only keep home-breds.

 

[beaker]

...my names Becky and i'm a Blackaholic :b

i am trying to ween myself away though... brindles now outnumber blacks in my house....

:blink:

hang on..

:blink:

the sneaky little brindle sods are building up their brindle numbers h34r: , if i was a paraniod person i'd swear they were going for a brindle takeover :rant:

 

[dessie]

...my names Becky and i'm a Blackaholic  :b  
i am trying to ween myself away though... brindles now outnumber blacks in my house....

:blink:

hang on..

:blink:

the sneaky little brindle sods are building up their brindle numbers h34r: , if i was a paraniod person i'd swear they were going for a brindle takeover  :rant:

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No hope for you then Becky!! :lol: LOL!

 

[parnew]

I don't think I'm obsessed, I'm just intrigued how the 'coloured' whippet over the years seems to have been left to the dedicated few, and that the focus in the ring seems to have been on all other colours, when black/blue should be just as abundantly present in the ring as any other colour.   Technically speaking, in our breed, blacks and blues should not be the minority.

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I'm reading this thread as with the other threads on this topic with great interest. Lana maybe the answer in there not being many blue/blacks in the ring is like my first encounter with an Aust. breeder who I told her of my love of blue's only to be shockling told by her "what on earth do you want one of those for their the first in the bucket". She's still a major breeder here in Aust. and as I'm seeing some of the dogs she got now I'm waiting for the day she shows a blue

I feel the prejudice against the 'colours' stem from a generation of breeders who decided the flashy parti-colours were the only way to win, this in turn had judges only being presented parti-colours and when a 'coloured' whippet entered the ring (like now-a-days) it looks so out of place to them that most are unwilling to put them up in classes so exhibitors lose heart in showing them especially when they are placed behind in class to a dog (conformation wise) inferior to them.

I'm slowly seeing a change in attitude to 'coloured' whippets but still a long way to go before what I know is a dream of so many whippet lovers that any colour or combination of colours is accepted on an even score in the show ring.

In the meantime I'll continue to show my mottley crew of various colours.

Cristina

Mychaka Whippets

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Spot on Cristina. I too was told to get rid of the blacks when I turned up at a show with one, even after he won Baby Puppy In Group

 

[Ridgesetter]

I've been reticent to post on this topic and thought it might die a quiet death but it appears not. I don't wish to offend and there will be those who will take offence at my post, but this topic has generated more comment than some posts related to health and welfare issues. Because posts are cold and impersonal and difficult to debate and explain, I'll apologise for my bluntness or lack of clarification in advance.

I've been involved in several breeds in my 30 years and am a 20 year convert to whippets. I breed and judge, and take whippets to breed lectures and field nights for aspirants and I really enjoy other whippet lovers to go over my litters but I must live in some tiny micro community because in my world, a whippet is either a good specimen or it isn't REGARDLESS OF COLOUR. I don't recall any breed so passionate about promoting particular colours.

The talk of judges not rewarding 'coloureds' is a generalisation at best and a slur against other whippets who win that aren't blue or black. Sure, some judges may be colour prejudiced, but look at how they are trained and what is stressed to them at the time of training.

We all have likes and dislikes when it comes to colour in any breed, but I believe it can be detrimental once you start selecting with colour a major consideration. We were told that we probably wouldn't win with our initial solid fawn. She struggled but not because she was fawn but simply because she wasn't as good as the competition. We were told we'd struggle with a solid dark brindle, but he won regularly and easily because he was a better specimen. It's often said good dogs win 7 out of 10 outings and whilst they may be attractive in colour and markings, they generally win because they are good specimens.

Some posts stated that 200 fawns would be boring. I'd be ecstatic with 200 whippets entered under me and if they were all fawn, who gives a stuff!

There are many breeds with variations in colour. My RR's have livernoses and most RR folk will agree that numbers are low in comparison to black noses, temperament of livers are better than black noses, and the quality of livers isn't high, yet there are a few breeders who get on a soapbox promoting them and breed liver to liver. I have no problem with that providing the dogs are of sufficient quality but often, they aren't and they lose type, but I don't want to hear they are disadvantaged or overlooked because of their colour.

The same can be said of many colours in many breeds and as a judge, I'm not going to award, for example, an Isabella Dobe just because it is a rare colour. It's got to be a good Dobe first.

I think the standard of whippets world-wide today is pretty good and I think the breed is in great shape. Please don't perpetuate talk of 'coloureds' as though there are two strains of whippet and owners are either in one camp or the other. :angry: Lets praise and breed on from good examples of the breed whatever their colour and markings.

Off my soapbox.

 

[aslan]

I'm not offended Toni, I agree with you on many points because many of your points are exactly what we are trying to say.

I don't think anyone is advocating awarding a dog on colour alone. We are asking that people don't disregard (or not even consider at all) an otherwise good dog because of it's colour, when choosing a puppy, a stud dog, a winner or choosing to allow your top stud dog to go to a 'coloured' bitch.

If there were no colour bias in show whippets wouldn't we see as many blacks/blues in the rings as there are fawns and brindles of every variation? And then also wouldn't it work out that there were as many good ones as there are not-so-good ones of each colour?

And even though I am a black fan - I would not breed from a poorly conformed black dog just because I wanted the colour. And if I had colour in a litter I would not keep the black one just because it was black.

 

[JAX]

:clown:

 

[Morgan]

I dont think so,you might see them in the ring , but not winning    as I m going to have to say this, but you DONT have the quality in the blacks and blues , Its as simple as that 
Right Im standing ready for the flack  (w00t)

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I do agree with you 100% Jax it's what I tried to explain in my bad English at the beginning of this topic (Can't you all just read French :- " ).

I am convinced that a real true beautiful black would win and it has happened several times :thumbsup:

The sad truth is that let's say 90% ( :- " ) of the black/blue whippets are just not good enough (that's also what I tried to explain when I wrote: Let's face it)

 

[JAX]

Wheres my post gone (w00t) :lol:

Thanks Tammara , for agreeing with me

 

[beaker]

coloureds generally arn't of the quality to compete with the top fawns and brindles so very few people want to show them and even fewer want to include them in their breeding programme

very few people want to show coloureds so there are only a few dedicated people who really try to up the quality for the show ring,

so even if you finally pursuaded someone to allow their higher quality stud dog to cover your mediocre coloured bitch (or god forbid used your mediocre coloured dog over their higher quality bitch) you would probably only have pet homes waiting for the coloured offspring

 

[Ridgesetter]

Lana, in response to your post, I don't think anyone would have any respect for breeders who make decisions based on colour.

In response to your post, in every breed, there are dogs who have featured heavily in the development of that breed. What you need to look at is what sires have been the most influential in the breed and linebred back to and what colour they were as surely their colour would be a contributing factor to the majority colour and future dogs?

An example is Barney (Collooney Silver Jigolo). He’s sired quite a lot of litters here in Oz and most of what I’ve seen from him are pretty similar – they’re all mostly solid brindles with white trim.

Linebred to Airescot Chaconne and Airescot Waistcoat has resulted in mostly parti colours. Rothbury The Lone Ranger is a mainly white dog who has sired litters with lots of white. And Kabharay Hugo Boss has had a similar impact in reproducing his colour (and type).

I’m no geneticist and have little interest in it as far as colour goes, but as we go forward, if there is a black male who is heavily linebred on, we will probably start to see more and more black whippets. The reason why there may be less black and blues may be because there haven’t been a great number linebred to compared to other colours.

It’s the same in any breed. You will find the majority of Border Collies are black and white when red / blue and tris are allowed. Kelpies have 7 colours but you generally only see reds. Most Dobes are black with tan markings but some only want Reds and I’ve yet to judge or see a Blue but have judged Fawns. Collies and Shelties are mostly sables but with the introduction of some dominant merle sires, the pendulum has swung and in Shelties, we are now seeing merles outnumbering sables. Black nose RR’s HEAVILY outnumber livers. Beagles and Bassets can be any Hound colour but tris vastly outnumber red / tan and white. Staffies are the number 4 breed in Oz and the majority are black (with or without brindle) yet the breed has a variety of allowed colours. If you look at Staffies here, they have been dominated by some stunning black brindle dogs which people use at stud and so more black brindles are produced. And whippets are no different. The majority of sires who have played a dominant part in the whippets in Oz have been solid brindles. I was amazed seeing so many solid fawns when I went to Crufts this year.

We saw (in our eyes) a stunning whippet in the USA last year. He was a series of flowing curves, he moved, he was muscular, long and lean – oh, I almost forgot - he was black.

Cheers all

 

[aslan]

So...don't leave us hanging, who was he? Got a pic?

 

[aslan]

coloureds generally arn't of the quality to compete with the top fawns and brindles
but this is what I'm getting at ... WHY aren't they?  Because over the years many people have disregarded them and concentrated on fawn/brindle and not tried to improve the coloureds.

so very few people want to show them and even fewer want to include them in their breeding programme

exactly.  I reckon we should all be trying harder.  Instead of just saying blacks aren't good enough and leaving them out altogether we should be seeking out the good ones and incorporating them

very few people want to show coloureds so there are only a few dedicated people who really try to up the quality for the show ring,

exactly, again.  It should not be left to the dedicated few.

so even if you finally pursuaded someone to allow their higher quality stud dog to cover your mediocre coloured bitch (or god forbid used your mediocre coloured dog over their    higher quality bitch) you would probably only have pet homes waiting for the coloured offspring 

but it seems that people don't need so much persuading about letting their top stud go to a mediocre bitch of fawn or brindle variation  :unsure:

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[beaker]

So...don't leave us hanging, who was he?  Got a pic? 

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dunno much about whippet in america so the only black champ i know of is,

CH Shamasan Hound hill body n soul :thumbsup:

hope i've spelled his name right :b

 

[beaker]

So...don't leave us hanging, who was he?  Got a pic? 

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dunno much about whippets in america so the only black champ i know of is,

CH Shamasan Hound hill body n soul :thumbsup:

hope i've spelled his name right :b

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found a pic :thumbsup:

http://hometown.aol.com/shamasan2/Shamasan...lBodyNSoul.html

 

[Karen]

Agree with you 100% Toni. If I liked the look of a black or blue dog I would just use it on my bitches or put it up.

It always puzzles me when people start talking about colour. And actually I too would love to go over/watch 200 fawns. You can always learn something. I stewarded for Rotts at a Champ show and there was about 250 it was a fantastic day for me, I was a few classes getting going but saw more and more finer points the longer I looked.

 

[malin]

dunno much about whippet in america so the only black champ i know of is,
CH Shamasan Hound hill body n soul  :thumbsup:

CH Shamasan Hound Hill Body & Soul :wub: is blue!

 

[beaker]

dunno much about whippet in america so the only black champ i know of is,
CH Shamasan Hound hill body n soul  :thumbsup:

CH Shamasan Hound Hill Body & Soul :wub: is blue!

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sorry about that he looks black in the pic :b