Racing/lure coursing

[Joanna]

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if a load of show folk decided to put there show dogs in the racing champs I'm sure the racing folk would wonder why

[SIZE=21pt]Why![/SIZE] t

here are a few show breds that race at the champs, and a lot that have show breeding close up in their pedigrees.

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My slow show bred has run at the champs..................Fair play he came last, but it was worth the £7 entry to see the smile on his face and not leave him in the car all day

 

[BeeJay]

I'm not knocking the class I just wouldn't fight for it, I'm not saying you shouldn't but if a load of show folk decided to put there show dogs in the racing champs I'm sure the racing folk would wonder why, and probably think that the sport was being belittled by it, I just think the show dogs have earned their place at crufts, its a show its not based on ability its based on looks.

why would they think the sport was being belittled by show breds entering a champ race ,? i don't get this comment. the show breds will have to have passports and been cleared for racing like any race bred so why would they be put out, unless the showie lot then started whining that the racers were beating their dogs i would think they would be happy for the added competition :- "

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Absolutely Beaker, the more the merrier I think. :thumbsup:

 

[Mark Roberts]

My slow show bred has run at the champs..................Fair play he came last, but it was worth the £7 entry to see the smile on his face and not leave him in the car all day

But if the same rules for entering Crufts (or what some claim they are for the R/LC class) applied to racing you would have to say win a weight group final at an open before you could enter the Racing Champs.

 

[TC]

If racing bred dogs and show bred dogs are competing against each other in a race, they are both aiming to cross the finish line first.

If racing bred dogs and show bred dogs are competing against each other in a ring, they are both aiming to conform to the judges interpretation of the breed standard.

They each take their chances :thumbsup:

That isn't the debate here, the debate is whether or not dogs entered in the open Racing and Lure Coursing class at Crufts have to traditionally qualify for entry according to the qualification rules as laid out in the schedule, as well as qualify as per the Class Definition.

 

[Paula Roberts]

Quite a few show breds run and are very good. :cheers:

 

[*Lesley*]

Lesley are you saying show dogs should only show and race dogs should only race?

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Are you being a pain in the arse :- "

Ok I'll answer that I THINK that people should let their dog do what it enjoys the most whatever its breeding and I think that if it is competing in either showing or racing it should be judged by a person who is experienced and qualified to judge on those aspects :thumbsup:

 

[Strike Whippets]

if a load of show folk decided to put there show dogs in the racing champs I'm sure the racing folk would wonder why

[SIZE=21pt]Why![/SIZE] t

here are a few show breds that race at the champs, and a lot that have show breeding close up in their pedigrees.

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Yes WHY ???? ......Its up to them ......I personally would like to see the lure coursing and racing class split, then dogs gaining high qualifiers to enter Crufts .......I think theres nothing more insulting than seeing a flabby show bred claiming they have qualified for this class because it once beat another show bred in a race ......Get real racers are racers, show breds are show breds .....I see it all the time at Cotswolds .....My dog parents raced and they were really fast ......Hmm then I see their pedigree and watch the dog run :- " ........ We are never going to agree on the merits of our different types of Whippets, but all we are asking is why can't we like the working gun dogs earn our way into Crufts just like they do ???? ......Most of them are a completly different type to the show bred gun dogs....... Lets show the different types of Whippet ...... I personally like the idea of showing my good racers as it proves as I said earlier, they arn't all thin, weak looking and roached etc ......Our dogs race, show dogs show and somewhere in the middle they lap over as lure coursers

BTW Mark I definatly saw 24" dogs at Crufts ......which wouldn't be that bad if they actually looked like they could work ........

 

[~elizabeth~]

what chance do racing types have against dogs which is judged by a show judge :unsure:

I don't think that's inevitably true actually, there still some who will place whippets of a running type, and many around who have coursed with their dogs. There are still quite a number of folk around who cling to the ideal of a multipurpose whippet. :- "

 

[Joanna]

My slow show bred has run at the champs..................Fair play he came last, but it was worth the £7 entry to see the smile on his face and not leave him in the car all day

But if the same rules for entering Crufts (or what some claim they are for the R/LC class) applied to racing you would have to say win a weight group final at an open before you could enter the Racing Champs.

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If that was the rule, I would accept it, but it isn't so I waste my money for fun.............Actually, I believe if true racing dogs didn't have to have a qualifier in the show ring for Crufts, that is EXACTLY what race entries to the ring would be doing. No harm in it, but just for fun

 

[*Lesley*]

If racing bred dogs and show bred dogs are competing against each other in a race, they are both aiming to cross the finish line first.
If racing bred dogs and show bred dogs a competing against each other in a ring, they are both aiming to conform to the judges interpretation of the breed standard.

They each take their chances  :thumbsup:

That isn't the debate here, the debate is whether or not dogs entered in the open Racing and Lure Coursing class at Crufts have to traditionally qualify for entry according to the qualification rules as laid out in the schedule, as well as qualify as per the Class Definition.

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Racing is based on ability(not chances) you cannot say that dog did not cross the line first because the other one was better looking :thumbsup:

 

[Mark Roberts]

Are you being a pain in the arse

must be the video Andy lent me

 

[Mark Roberts]

If that was the rule, I would accept it, but it isn't so I waste my money for fun.............Actually, I believe if true racing dogs didn't have to have a qualifier in the show ring for Crufts, that is EXACTLY what race entries to the ring would be doing. No harm in it, but just for fun

everything I do with my dogs is just for fun, racing/working/lure coursing and showing if I get the chance, so what if I get beat i'll shake the judges hand and thank them congratulate the winner and go home just like i do every weekend

 

[Joanna]

If that was the rule, I would accept it, but it isn't so I waste my money for fun.............Actually, I believe if true racing dogs didn't have to have a qualifier in the show ring for Crufts, that is EXACTLY what race entries to the ring would be doing. No harm in it, but just for fun

everything I do with my dogs is just for fun, racing/working/lure coursing and showing if I get the chance, so what if I get beat i'll shake the judges hand and thank them congratulate the winner and go home just like i do every weekend

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Well good on you Mark, exactly as it should be buddy :cheers:

 

[TC]

If racing bred dogs and show bred dogs are competing against each other in a race, they are both aiming to cross the finish line first.
If racing bred dogs and show bred dogs a competing against each other in a ring, they are both aiming to conform to the judges interpretation of the breed standard.

They each take their chances  :thumbsup:

That isn't the debate here, the debate is whether or not dogs entered in the open Racing and Lure Coursing class at Crufts have to traditionally qualify for entry according to the qualification rules as laid out in the schedule, as well as qualify as per the Class Definition.

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Racing is based on ability(not chances) you cannot say that dog did not cross the line first because the other one was better looking :thumbsup:

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I think you'll find that's exactly what I was saying Lesley :thumbsup: One competition is about speed, and one competition is about conformation to a standard. Each dog has just as much right to do both.

 

[BeeJay]

Racing is based on ability(not chances) you cannot say that dog did not cross the line first because the other one was better looking :thumbsup:

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Show dogs are judged on their ability to be show dogs ie against the breed standard. They are judged on their ability IMO.

 

[*Lesley*]

Racing is based on ability(not chances) you cannot say that dog did not cross the line first because the other one was better looking :thumbsup:

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Show dogs are judged on their ability to be show dogs ie against the breed standard. They are judged on their ability IMO.

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Different kind of ability :thumbsup: I don't think I needed to say that really

 

[*Lesley*]

If racing bred dogs and show bred dogs are competing against each other in a race, they are both aiming to cross the finish line first.
If racing bred dogs and show bred dogs a competing against each other in a ring, they are both aiming to conform to the judges interpretation of the breed standard.

They each take their chances  :thumbsup:

That isn't the debate here, the debate is whether or not dogs entered in the open Racing and Lure Coursing class at Crufts have to traditionally qualify for entry according to the qualification rules as laid out in the schedule, as well as qualify as per the Class Definition.

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Racing is based on ability(not chances) you cannot say that dog did not cross the line first because the other one was better looking :thumbsup:

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I think you'll find that's exactly what I was saying Lesley :thumbsup: One competition is about speed, and one competition is about conformation to a standard. Each dog has just as much right to do both.

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I don't disagree with that Joanna I said people should do whatever they want, its just the two are very different things dont you think

 

[Angela Bayley]

Sorry if I offend anyone but I can't help feeling that the response from the showing fraternity on this subject has been less than gracious.

Would you expect your show whippet to compete fairly in a race against racing whippets (after all what are whippets for?) so why should you be so afraid of competition from genuine racing whippets who will doubtless be penalised for being "over muscled" and "needing more weight"?

What have you got to be afraid of?

Angela

 

[Joanna]

If racing bred dogs and show bred dogs are competing against each other in a race, they are both aiming to cross the finish line first.
If racing bred dogs and show bred dogs a competing against each other in a ring, they are both aiming to conform to the judges interpretation of the breed standard.

They each take their chances  :thumbsup:

That isn't the debate here, the debate is whether or not dogs entered in the open Racing and Lure Coursing class at Crufts have to traditionally qualify for entry according to the qualification rules as laid out in the schedule, as well as qualify as per the Class Definition.

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Racing is based on ability(not chances) you cannot say that dog did not cross the line first because the other one was better looking :thumbsup:

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I think you'll find that's exactly what I was saying Lesley :thumbsup: One competition is about speed, and one competition is about conformation to a standard. Each dog has just as much right to do both.

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I don't disagree with that Joanna I said people should do whatever they want, its just the two are very different things dont you think

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I didn't say a word Les (i think TC is the one you are talking to ) (w00t) Absolutely agree with you though :huggles:

 

[chelynnah]

Sorry if I offend anyone but I can't help feeling that the response from the showing fraternity on this subject has been less than gracious.
Would you expect your show whippet to compete fairly in a race against racing whippets (after all what are whippets for?) so why should you be so afraid of competition from genuine racing whippets who will doubtless be penalised for being "over muscled" and "needing more weight"?

What have you got to be afraid of?

Angela

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I don't see how. We're supposed to be talking about qualifications for Crufts. We're not comparing race v show dogs for the most part. The discussion is mostly in regard to what it takes to qualify for Crufts - and is the wording regarding what qualifies a dog for the class intended to also mean that qualifies it for Crufts.

The most insulting remarks about race dogs have come in the form of 'self derogatory' remarks by the race dog owners themselves - ie things they 'think' we show people say about their dogs and they've said themselves tongue in cheek.

Overall I don't think anyone has been insulting, of either race or show which (as Mark already pointed out) means that WOW we CAN actually discuss it without getting offensive and personal.

The question has been put about as to why race people would want to enter Crufts, and the feeling among some is that the dogs should still qualify the same way.

I personally don't have a problem with race dogs participating as long as either they have qualified the same as the rest of us OR they have had some kind of equal MAJOR achievement on the field (not just going running every weekend).

I've gone back and read the rules a few times and to be honest I'm back to my original understanding which is to enter a dog at Crufts you must qualify them at a Ch show in the specified classes. Then each class AT Crufts has it's own rules (either age, or wins etc) as to what qualifies it to enter THAT SPECIFIC class (ie Good Citizens requires a dog to have passed a Good Citizens exam, Yearling means the dog must be 12-24 months, etc), but prior to being eligible to enter the class they must still be eliglble to enter Crufts.

I look forward to the official word from the KC either way - at least it will be clarified, and perhaps the wording should be tightened up.

I think sometimes people get upset wtih what they THINK is implied by an otherwise innocent comment because they perceive this huge divide between race and show. Yes they are becoming different types because they are bred for different purposes.

At some point I would like to take one of mine LC'ing or racing just to see what she can do, because she is just amazingly prey driven. I don't expect her to beat dogs bred for that, but she comes (on one side) from a background of dual purpose whippets, so I expect she shouldnt' embarrass herself However when we do give it a shot I don't personally care how well she does as long as she has fun... And at the end of the day that's what we do at showing as well. We provide our dogs a great life - and ask that one day every couple of weeks (and sometimes much less often) they walk round a ring with us and stand and look pretty, and dont' embarrass us too much. I know my girls enjoy the one on one time. I know they enjoy the show environment. When I get the bag ready they're at the door begging to go.

So lets enjoy our whippets whatever way they were bred - if race breds want to show and in race condition - by all means I'd personally love to see you out there. And if show breds want to give their dogs a shot at what their original purpose is - well heck - why not....

Wendy (waiting on the comment from the KC as to the original purpose of this thread - what qualifies a whippet for the Racing/LC'ing class at Crufts - is it the same as every other dog plus the fact it races or is it JUST that it races)