British And American Whippets

[anniewhippet]

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sorry i havent posted before lack of computer (w00t) what starts as a valid point from nicky about american and english show dogs now seems to have become an show verses racing debate yet again -_-   also to the person who put about health problems in show dogs i have one thing to say BALLS OR LACK OF THEM in both spheres but some racing folk continue to breed from monorchids, we could not show our stud dogs without so i think you need to address your own probs before you continue to slate our show breds :rant:

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Whilst it is obvious that a lack of testicles precludes a whippet from the show ring

it does not preclude them from racing/coursing. Furthermore although monorchid/cryptorchid animals cannot be shown, are you saying that stud dogs that sire monorchid/cryptorchids are withdrawn from breeding programmes and do you go even further and say that bitches from litters containing monorchid/cryptorchid males are not bred from either ???

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Not if they have been castrated for MEDICAL reasons AND have KC approval

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Interesting - Have you ever known a castrated dog placed ? and although interesting your reply doesn't actually comment on my point re breeding

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Unfortunately this is a fact of life in breeding, be it showdogs/racing/coursing Whippets or any other breed but it is something breeders are aware of but cannot always be sure of before a mating is done. Just IMO for whats its worth..... :thumbsup:

 

[~JO~]

sorry i havent posted before lack of computer (w00t) what starts as a valid point from nicky about american and english show dogs now seems to have become an show verses racing debate yet again -_-   also to the person who put about health problems in show dogs i have one thing to say BALLS OR LACK OF THEM in both spheres but some racing folk continue to breed from monorchids, we could not show our stud dogs without so i think you need to address your own probs before you continue to slate our show breds :rant:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Whilst it is obvious that a lack of testicles precludes a whippet from the show ring

it does not preclude them from racing/coursing. Furthermore although monorchid/cryptorchid animals cannot be shown, are you saying that stud dogs that sire monorchid/cryptorchids are withdrawn from breeding programmes and do you go even further and say that bitches from litters containing monorchid/cryptorchid males are not bred from either ???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

What I believe is being said is that in some racing breeding programmes sires that are monorchids themselves are being used for breeding.

 

[larruu]

sorry i havent posted before lack of computer (w00t) what starts as a valid point from nicky about american and english show dogs now seems to have become an show verses racing debate yet again -_-   also to the person who put about health problems in show dogs i have one thing to say BALLS OR LACK OF THEM in both spheres but some racing folk continue to breed from monorchids, we could not show our stud dogs without so i think you need to address your own probs before you continue to slate our show breds :rant:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Whilst it is obvious that a lack of testicles precludes a whippet from the show ring

it does not preclude them from racing/coursing. Furthermore although monorchid/cryptorchid animals cannot be shown, are you saying that stud dogs that sire monorchid/cryptorchids are withdrawn from breeding programmes and do you go even further and say that bitches from litters containing monorchid/cryptorchid males are not bred from either ???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

What I believe is being said is that in some racing breeding programmes sires that are monorchids themselves are being used for breeding.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I realise what was being said Jo - my point was that it matters not if racing stock is breed from monorchid sires this does not affect their ability to partake in their chosen field

 

[Seraphina]

All of You who are not interested in function anymore; what about the so called BLUEPRINT?  It was so important some days before...hm....own interpretations.... 8)

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What are you on about? What do you mean hm? The blueprint or standard are used as guidelines for dogs that are taken into the show ring not for dogs that are only raced or coursed, in fact I don't think that the purely racing or coursing people care whether their dogs fit the requirements for the show ring or not, fair enough. Who amongst us has said that we do not care about function only that it is a side of the breed that we do not for whatever reason, participate in. So what is it you are trying to say? That show dogs cant function? Well I think that there have been numerous examples both here in the U.K and the U.S to blow that out of the water. As for "own interpretations" wellofcourse we do, that is what makes dog showing so interesting.

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If show dogs had the optimal attributes for speed, then all of them would be able to successfully compete in racing/lure coursing competitions. There are very few that can do that. In the USA the situation is slightly different; the show dogs race against each other. I would like to know how their times compare against the European and UK racing dogs. Which is not easy done as the distances are not exactly the same.

Whatever country you are in dog showing is about opinions, dog racing isnt!

Well, exactly, the racing dogs really can run, nobody can dispute it. OK some prick their ears up, or may have some other trait, which in the ring would be considered fault, but that is not what makes them "built for speed". However traits like more open shoulder angle, long legs and light flat bone probably are. That is why i am totally flabbergasted that 90degrees angle of shoulder is described as correct in the Illustrated Standard.

 

[doris]

Interesting - Have you ever known a castrated dog placed  ? and although interesting your reply doesn't actually comment on my point re breeding

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I do! My lovely old veteran Devon was placed 2nd at a champ show late last year, just before his 11th birthday :cheers:

There were 2 in his class :- "

I have taken him to several shows over the past year, and even though I think he looks fantastic for his age, I would never, ever expect to see my castrated male get placed in front of an entire one

I'm just pleased that my old boy is still fit and well enough to enjoy a day out :huggles: - after all, its the taking part that counts

(Sorry, can't comment on the point re breeding, cos I'm not a breeder )

 

[Seraphina]

Bull Terriers are bull baiting dogs but you aren't expected to go and find a bull to bait just to prove that the bull terrier is capable of doing the job he was bred for. As for "appearance of" well again that's open to interpretation and opinions.

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Obviously in the case of bulldogs and bull terriers and other breeds it is not possible to test if the dogs still could do what they used to be bred for. So interpretation and opinions are all what breeders of these dogs have to go on. We however do have dogs that run.

 

[patsy]

All of You who are not interested in function anymore; what about the so called BLUEPRINT?   It was so important some days before...hm....own interpretations.... 8)

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​

What are you on about? What do you mean hm? The blueprint or standard are used as guidelines for dogs that are taken into the show ring not for dogs that are only raced or coursed, in fact I don't think that the purely racing or coursing people care whether their dogs fit the requirements for the show ring or not, fair enough. Who amongst us has said that we do not care about function only that it is a side of the breed that we do not for whatever reason, participate in. So what is it you are trying to say? That show dogs cant function? Well I think that there have been numerous examples both here in the U.K and the U.S to blow that out of the water. As for "own interpretations" wellofcourse we do, that is what makes dog showing so interesting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

If show dogs had the optimal attributes for speed, then all of them would be able to successfully compete in racing/lure coursing competitions. There are very few that can do that. In the USA the situation is slightly different; the show dogs race against each other. I would like to know how their times compare against the European and UK racing dogs. Which is not easy done as the distances are not exactly the same.

Whatever country you are in dog showing is about opinions, dog racing isnt!

Well, exactly, the racing dogs really can run, nobody can dispute it. OK some prick their ears up, or may have some other trait, which in the ring would be considered fault, but that is not what makes them "built for speed". However traits like more open shoulder angle, long legs and light flat bone probably are. That is why i am totally flabbergasted that 90degrees angle of shoulder is described as correct in the Illustrated Standard.

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As said in an earlier post this forum is headed whippet showing, and we are all enjoying learning about showing and judging in America and other countries too.It was also said that whippets were not bred to race against each other on a track. A lot of breeds have a split between working and showing, we are lucky in whippets as a lot of top class show dogs do compete, but most people that come onto whippet showing do not compete, and just to repeat my self breed top class whippets that they can be proud of

 

[seaspot_run]

If show dogs had the optimal attributes for speed, then all of them would be able to successfully compete in racing/lure coursing competitions.  There are very few that can do that.  In the USA the situation is slightly different; the show dogs race against each other. 

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That's not really true.

We have three different governing bodies in North America for straight racing (plus another for oval or bend racing) and while some of them attract more showbred dogs on a percentage basis than others, they are certainly not segregated. The showbreds comprise a portion of the total field entered and if they win their early races, they will without any question find themselves in a race with mostly racing bred stock. My dogs never attend a race without being in at least one race against dogs bred for racing, not showing.

 

[seaspot_run]

Patsy is such a prestige international judge that she is only hired by the better clubs with the bigger budgets, and they do take wonderful care of their judges, but I am afraid she may have a slightly skewed impression of the average dog show going experience here.  What she describes is common if you go to a prestige cluster or specialty show environment, but not typical of the average dog show experience.
There are many little all-breed shows which are held in livestock barns...these can be very cold, not at all glamorous, and the hospitality standard for judges and exhibitors is much less. You just show, try to win your point or two, and go home. It's not nearly so social as my impression of the average smaller British championship show. If you don't win something at those shows, you can't really be said to have had much fun, as it's not the sort of place people enjoy hanging around if they aren't required for further judging, so the social life is practically nil.

I've only seen Whippets shown in the UK twice...once at Crufts (1998) and once as a judge (last year's EAWC Open Show).  In both instances, I felt there was a higher degree of comaraderie and sportsmanship among the ringside, and I think a lot of that (other than British people tend to be well-mannered) is that the entries are so large that very few people are planning on having a big win, so for most it's a nice day out and a chance to see the other dogs. I think Americans are far more cutthroat.  Also, my impression of the sportsmanship and bonhommerie was possibly influenced by that fact that in both venues, alcohol was readily available.  This absolutely would not happen at an AKC show.  If you go back to the benching area at one of our big remaining benched shows, you will see no hampers and wine set out for friends to share as alcohol is prohibited on the show grounds most places.  You may not have a cocktail or a beer at ringside, even if you are a spectator and not showing, or even driving home after the show.  We still have that strong puritan streak here.  Consequently, some of our folks are more tightly wound. :- "

The party is back in the caravan camping area, generally, or sometimes groups of friends stop off at a nearby watering hole after judging and have a bite and a pint before heading home.

It is expensive to enter dog shows here...UKUSA has been gone a LONG time if that was the price she remembered.  It's been over $20 for quite a few years and most of our shows are now in the upper $20 range. There are price breaks for Puppy class and occasionally Bred-By Exhibitor.

Another difference is that few exhibitors here enter more than one class, even if eligible. There's simply no reason to do it. You enter the class where you think your dog has the best chance of being taken seriously for being given the points, and that's your only shot, unless you have a separate competition with a different judge like a Puppy Sweepstakes or a Veteran Sweepstakes.

As for handling, yes the styles are rather different. One thing I noticed when I judged was that the handlers in general weren't staring holes in me waiting for me to point at them.  I'm used to being stared down and having handlers try to intimidate me.  Rather nice to have a ring of people who just seemed to be concentrating on their dogs instead of on getting in my head and messing with my brain. :unsure:   :wacko:

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Yes it has been a long time Karen and seeing how entry fees have gone up makes me realise JUST how long its been! I have to say that I really did enjoy my time in the States and look back on those days with great fondness. I have to say that without exception I was treated really well by all the dog people that I came into contact with. Terrific memories. Oh and by the way I have been with Patsy on a few of her overseas judging assignments and you are right, she is treated like visiting royalty!

Nicky

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Thanks for that Karen, sorry that I thought all your shows were run the same, but all are shows are not the same either,you were lucky to have judged the East Anglian whippet club, club shows are friendly, But you yanks do pay your judges 3 dollars a dog, or was I special again.

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You only got 3 dollars a dog???

:unsure:

 

[larruu]

Interesting - Have you ever known a castrated dog placed  ? and although interesting your reply doesn't actually comment on my point re breeding

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I do! My lovely old veteran Devon was placed 2nd at a champ show late last year, just before his 11th birthday :cheers:

There were 2 in his class :- "

I have taken him to several shows over the past year, and even though I think he looks fantastic for his age, I would never, ever expect to see my castrated male get placed in front of an entire one

I'm just pleased that my old boy is still fit and well enough to enjoy a day out :huggles: - after all, its the taking part that counts

(Sorry, can't comment on the point re breeding, cos I'm not a breeder )

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Eminently sporting and selfless attitude Alison - possibly a minority take on showing though. In fact if i was cynical i'd call it an exercise in futilty

 

[doris]

Interesting - Have you ever known a castrated dog placed  ? and although interesting your reply doesn't actually comment on my point re breeding

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I do! My lovely old veteran Devon was placed 2nd at a champ show late last year, just before his 11th birthday :cheers:

There were 2 in his class :- "

I have taken him to several shows over the past year, and even though I think he looks fantastic for his age, I would never, ever expect to see my castrated male get placed in front of an entire one

I'm just pleased that my old boy is still fit and well enough to enjoy a day out :huggles: - after all, its the taking part that counts

(Sorry, can't comment on the point re breeding, cos I'm not a breeder )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Eminently sporting and selfless attitude Alison - possibly a minority take on showing though. In fact if i was cynical i'd call it an exercise in futilty

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ouch!

 

[*Mark*]

sorry i havent posted before lack of computer (w00t) what starts as a valid point from nicky about american and english show dogs now seems to have become an show verses racing debate yet again -_-   also to the person who put about health problems in show dogs i have one thing to say BALLS OR LACK OF THEM in both spheres but some racing folk continue to breed from monorchids, we could not show our stud dogs without so i think you need to address your own probs before you continue to slate our show breds :rant:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Whilst it is obvious that a lack of testicles precludes a whippet from the show ring

it does not preclude them from racing/coursing. Furthermore although monorchid/cryptorchid animals cannot be shown, are you saying that stud dogs that sire monorchid/cryptorchids are withdrawn from breeding programmes and do you go even further and say that bitches from litters containing monorchid/cryptorchid males are not bred from either ???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Not if they have been castrated for MEDICAL reasons AND have KC approval

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Interesting - Have you ever known a castrated dog placed ? and although interesting your reply doesn't actually comment on my point re breeding

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

No a castrated dog wouldn't be placed as a judge should also be taking into consideration the ability of the dog to be able to reproduce. i.e. would bitch make a good brood bitch or a dog make a good stud. This has nothing to do with its ability to work.

Showing is not all about working ability it also about been able to reproduce the quality and continue the line.

 

[Seraphina]

Some breeds have fared not particularly well by the breeders guessing what makes them suitable for particular task;

Rossettes to ruin

Every breeder should read this , even that Whippets are not in any immediate danger of becoming so exaggerated. But all exaggerations happen step by step.

 

[dolly]

But at the end of the day Alison loves her dog, he has a fantastic homelife, he could wish for nothing, isnt that what having a whippet is all about :huggles:

 

[larruu]

sorry i havent posted before lack of computer (w00t) what starts as a valid point from nicky about american and english show dogs now seems to have become an show verses racing debate yet again -_-   also to the person who put about health problems in show dogs i have one thing to say BALLS OR LACK OF THEM in both spheres but some racing folk continue to breed from monorchids, we could not show our stud dogs without so i think you need to address your own probs before you continue to slate our show breds :rant:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Whilst it is obvious that a lack of testicles precludes a whippet from the show ring

it does not preclude them from racing/coursing. Furthermore although monorchid/cryptorchid animals cannot be shown, are you saying that stud dogs that sire monorchid/cryptorchids are withdrawn from breeding programmes and do you go even further and say that bitches from litters containing monorchid/cryptorchid males are not bred from either ???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Not if they have been castrated for MEDICAL reasons AND have KC approval

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Interesting - Have you ever known a castrated dog placed ? and although interesting your reply doesn't actually comment on my point re breeding

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

No a castrated dog wouldn't be placed as a judge should also be taking into consideration the ability of the dog to be able to reproduce. i.e. would bitch make a good brood bitch or a dog make a good stud. This has nothing to do with its ability to work.

Showing is not all about working ability it also about been able to reproduce the quality and continue the line.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Bit of an uneven playing field then - how many judges would know if a bitch was spayed unless they were told by the exhibitor

 

[patsy]

Patsy is such a prestige international judge that she is only hired by the better clubs with the bigger budgets, and they do take wonderful care of their judges, but I am afraid she may have a slightly skewed impression of the average dog show going experience here.  What she describes is common if you go to a prestige cluster or specialty show environment, but not typical of the average dog show experience.
There are many little all-breed shows which are held in livestock barns...these can be very cold, not at all glamorous, and the hospitality standard for judges and exhibitors is much less. You just show, try to win your point or two, and go home. It's not nearly so social as my impression of the average smaller British championship show. If you don't win something at those shows, you can't really be said to have had much fun, as it's not the sort of place people enjoy hanging around if they aren't required for further judging, so the social life is practically nil.

I've only seen Whippets shown in the UK twice...once at Crufts (1998) and once as a judge (last year's EAWC Open Show).  In both instances, I felt there was a higher degree of comaraderie and sportsmanship among the ringside, and I think a lot of that (other than British people tend to be well-mannered) is that the entries are so large that very few people are planning on having a big win, so for most it's a nice day out and a chance to see the other dogs. I think Americans are far more cutthroat.  Also, my impression of the sportsmanship and bonhommerie was possibly influenced by that fact that in both venues, alcohol was readily available.  This absolutely would not happen at an AKC show.  If you go back to the benching area at one of our big remaining benched shows, you will see no hampers and wine set out for friends to share as alcohol is prohibited on the show grounds most places.  You may not have a cocktail or a beer at ringside, even if you are a spectator and not showing, or even driving home after the show.  We still have that strong puritan streak here.  Consequently, some of our folks are more tightly wound. :- "

The party is back in the caravan camping area, generally, or sometimes groups of friends stop off at a nearby watering hole after judging and have a bite and a pint before heading home.

It is expensive to enter dog shows here...UKUSA has been gone a LONG time if that was the price she remembered.  It's been over $20 for quite a few years and most of our shows are now in the upper $20 range. There are price breaks for Puppy class and occasionally Bred-By Exhibitor.

Another difference is that few exhibitors here enter more than one class, even if eligible. There's simply no reason to do it. You enter the class where you think your dog has the best chance of being taken seriously for being given the points, and that's your only shot, unless you have a separate competition with a different judge like a Puppy Sweepstakes or a Veteran Sweepstakes.

As for handling, yes the styles are rather different. One thing I noticed when I judged was that the handlers in general weren't staring holes in me waiting for me to point at them.  I'm used to being stared down and having handlers try to intimidate me.  Rather nice to have a ring of people who just seemed to be concentrating on their dogs instead of on getting in my head and messing with my brain. :unsure:   :wacko:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yes it has been a long time Karen and seeing how entry fees have gone up makes me realise JUST how long its been! I have to say that I really did enjoy my time in the States and look back on those days with great fondness. I have to say that without exception I was treated really well by all the dog people that I came into contact with. Terrific memories. Oh and by the way I have been with Patsy on a few of her overseas judging assignments and you are right, she is treated like visiting royalty!

Nicky

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Thanks for that Karen, sorry that I thought all your shows were run the same, but all are shows are not the same either,you were lucky to have judged the East Anglian whippet club, club shows are friendly, But you yanks do pay your judges 3 dollars a dog, or was I special again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

You only got 3 dollars a dog???

:unsure:

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​

Hey Karen did they short change me, Max told me he got more but he also told me how famous he was, and you have to pay for fame. Anyway I was very happy with my 3 dollars, in England you get sweet B all

 

[*Mark*]

sorry i havent posted before lack of computer (w00t) what starts as a valid point from nicky about american and english show dogs now seems to have become an show verses racing debate yet again -_-   also to the person who put about health problems in show dogs i have one thing to say BALLS OR LACK OF THEM in both spheres but some racing folk continue to breed from monorchids, we could not show our stud dogs without so i think you need to address your own probs before you continue to slate our show breds :rant:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Whilst it is obvious that a lack of testicles precludes a whippet from the show ring

it does not preclude them from racing/coursing. Furthermore although monorchid/cryptorchid animals cannot be shown, are you saying that stud dogs that sire monorchid/cryptorchids are withdrawn from breeding programmes and do you go even further and say that bitches from litters containing monorchid/cryptorchid males are not bred from either ???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Not if they have been castrated for MEDICAL reasons AND have KC approval

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Interesting - Have you ever known a castrated dog placed ? and although interesting your reply doesn't actually comment on my point re breeding

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

No a castrated dog wouldn't be placed as a judge should also be taking into consideration the ability of the dog to be able to reproduce. i.e. would bitch make a good brood bitch or a dog make a good stud. This has nothing to do with its ability to work.

Showing is not all about working ability it also about been able to reproduce the quality and continue the line.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Bit of an uneven playing field then - how many judges would know if a bitch was spayed unless they were told by the exhibitor

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Thats life!! you wouldn't know. You can only Judge what you have in front of you. You would not also know if a bitch was infertile or if a dog was.

 

[*Mark*]

Patsy is such a prestige international judge that she is only hired by the better clubs with the bigger budgets, and they do take wonderful care of their judges, but I am afraid she may have a slightly skewed impression of the average dog show going experience here.  What she describes is common if you go to a prestige cluster or specialty show environment, but not typical of the average dog show experience.
There are many little all-breed shows which are held in livestock barns...these can be very cold, not at all glamorous, and the hospitality standard for judges and exhibitors is much less. You just show, try to win your point or two, and go home. It's not nearly so social as my impression of the average smaller British championship show. If you don't win something at those shows, you can't really be said to have had much fun, as it's not the sort of place people enjoy hanging around if they aren't required for further judging, so the social life is practically nil.

I've only seen Whippets shown in the UK twice...once at Crufts (1998) and once as a judge (last year's EAWC Open Show).  In both instances, I felt there was a higher degree of comaraderie and sportsmanship among the ringside, and I think a lot of that (other than British people tend to be well-mannered) is that the entries are so large that very few people are planning on having a big win, so for most it's a nice day out and a chance to see the other dogs. I think Americans are far more cutthroat.  Also, my impression of the sportsmanship and bonhommerie was possibly influenced by that fact that in both venues, alcohol was readily available.  This absolutely would not happen at an AKC show.  If you go back to the benching area at one of our big remaining benched shows, you will see no hampers and wine set out for friends to share as alcohol is prohibited on the show grounds most places.  You may not have a cocktail or a beer at ringside, even if you are a spectator and not showing, or even driving home after the show.  We still have that strong puritan streak here.  Consequently, some of our folks are more tightly wound. :- "

The party is back in the caravan camping area, generally, or sometimes groups of friends stop off at a nearby watering hole after judging and have a bite and a pint before heading home.

It is expensive to enter dog shows here...UKUSA has been gone a LONG time if that was the price she remembered.  It's been over $20 for quite a few years and most of our shows are now in the upper $20 range. There are price breaks for Puppy class and occasionally Bred-By Exhibitor.

Another difference is that few exhibitors here enter more than one class, even if eligible. There's simply no reason to do it. You enter the class where you think your dog has the best chance of being taken seriously for being given the points, and that's your only shot, unless you have a separate competition with a different judge like a Puppy Sweepstakes or a Veteran Sweepstakes.

As for handling, yes the styles are rather different. One thing I noticed when I judged was that the handlers in general weren't staring holes in me waiting for me to point at them.  I'm used to being stared down and having handlers try to intimidate me.  Rather nice to have a ring of people who just seemed to be concentrating on their dogs instead of on getting in my head and messing with my brain. :unsure:   :wacko:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yes it has been a long time Karen and seeing how entry fees have gone up makes me realise JUST how long its been! I have to say that I really did enjoy my time in the States and look back on those days with great fondness. I have to say that without exception I was treated really well by all the dog people that I came into contact with. Terrific memories. Oh and by the way I have been with Patsy on a few of her overseas judging assignments and you are right, she is treated like visiting royalty!

Nicky

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Thanks for that Karen, sorry that I thought all your shows were run the same, but all are shows are not the same either,you were lucky to have judged the East Anglian whippet club, club shows are friendly, But you yanks do pay your judges 3 dollars a dog, or was I special again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

You only got 3 dollars a dog???

:unsure:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Hey Karen did they short change me, Max told me he got more but he also told me how famous he was, and you have to pay for fame. Anyway I was very happy with my 3 dollars, in England you get sweet B all

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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Worse than that it costs you money!

 

[patsy]

sorry i havent posted before lack of computer (w00t) what starts as a valid point from nicky about american and english show dogs now seems to have become an show verses racing debate yet again -_-   also to the person who put about health problems in show dogs i have one thing to say BALLS OR LACK OF THEM in both spheres but some racing folk continue to breed from monorchids, we could not show our stud dogs without so i think you need to address your own probs before you continue to slate our show breds :rant:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Whilst it is obvious that a lack of testicles precludes a whippet from the show ring

it does not preclude them from racing/coursing. Furthermore although monorchid/cryptorchid animals cannot be shown, are you saying that stud dogs that sire monorchid/cryptorchids are withdrawn from breeding programmes and do you go even further and say that bitches from litters containing monorchid/cryptorchid males are not bred from either ???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Not if they have been castrated for MEDICAL reasons AND have KC approval

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Interesting - Have you ever known a castrated dog placed ? and although interesting your reply doesn't actually comment on my point re breeding

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No a castrated dog wouldn't be placed as a judge should also be taking into consideration the ability of the dog to be able to reproduce. i.e. would bitch make a good brood bitch or a dog make a good stud. This has nothing to do with its ability to work.

Showing is not all about working ability it also about been able to reproduce the quality and continue the line.

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Bit of an uneven playing field then - how many judges would know if a bitch was spayed unless they were told by the exhibitor

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Thats life!! you wouldn't know. You can only Judge what you have in front of you. You would not also know if a bitch was infertile or if a dog was.

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You would not know about a bitch or infertile dog, i had a C.C. winner who was infertile, he had mated 4 Champion bitches, when He tested infertile I withdrew him from competition.

 

[patsy]

Go onto whippetzine contents, current feature, it is fab, we have nothing quite like it here, just look at the lovely condition of those racing dogs, not one of them looks short. WELL DONE AMERICA.