British And American Whippets

[Parsonally]

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Yeah think you're right there, the people with loads of money over here won't be investing it in show dogs where they can't make a return on it.  *** Of course , who want a rosette instead of money prize ?! ***

It will go into race horses where there is mega prize money on offer. 

*** me too ***

It is just a completely different world  :wacko:

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*** I have friends that exibit arabian horses and it is also a complete different world :blink: :teehee: :wacko: ***

 

[anniewhippet]

Karen is very quiet at the moment, I think England and America are Poles apart when it comes to advertising, we have just never done it to a great extent in whippets. As. a breed we all look forward to our ads in the biennial.I don't think any country in the world has the amount of breed specialist that we do.

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I think it's time for someone else to weigh in.

It's weird speaking for all of the US, and I'm not entirely comfortable with it.

With regard to advertising, I'll just say that the top specials (the ones you see getting the big wins at shows like Westminister) probably have advertising budgets annually in the $10,000 (low) to $50,000 range, and if it didn't work to help the judges find the dogs for higher awards, they wouldn't spend that kind of money, would they? The career of certain top specials that I have heard has been quoted as being done at a total cost of around $100,000 annually or more.

The one time we had a dog given that sort of push with

a professional handler and ads in all the magazines, she made #1 Whippet for two years running. You can put a dog in the Top 10 without it, but it's pretty hard to get to #1 and stay there. Our dog had a wealthy backer who lived in a condo in downtown New York City and although he owned her for two years, she lived with the handler all that time.

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Good grief, (w00t) and to think I flatly refused to pay the £85 Dog world wanted to place an ad for Berry's junior warrant!! :lol:

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:lol: :lol: :lol:

I can't believe that people are prepared to spend that much money, where on earth do they get it from?! :blink:

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They're rich!

I'm sure you have some rich people in the UK. Maybe they back racehorses instead.

Now, for that advertising budget, we're not just talking about a few ads. We're talking magazine covers, and multiple page spreads in every magazine that might be conceivably taken by a judge licensed for their breed or group. $10,000 a month ad budget isn't unheard of. That will also include professional photoshoots and maybe even the services of a graphic designer to design the ad.

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We are now talking a different world? :blink: Gosh thanks for sharing that Karen, makes me happier to be involved over 'here' me thinks...... but just shows the differences.

I suppose as we are not a sponsored, commercial venture, as such, the money is not there as it is in racehorses etc. over here. But surely with this type of backing there is pressure to live up to these budgets so that a 'return' is seen. The planning of these campaigns must be very precise, I know exhibitors over here plan their showing but surely not to this extent?

 

[T Hoare]

Quite agree Patsy , and its been good having your imput too  :huggles: , instead of you `lurking in the background `. :- " 
You have so much good  information and knowledge that we really need to `prise`it out of you at times .

See , K9 isnt all bad is it  :huggles:

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I agree Jax. It has been really informative for all, like many of us you can still learn no matter how long you have been showing. :thumbsup:

Thanks to all for the input.

 

[seaspot_run]

I would compare specialing a dog and having that sort of money put into it rather like other very expensive hobbies. While a successful male might at least make back some of it in stud fees, it's only ever going to be a drop in the bucket.

Let's say my hobby is fishing. If I'm a poor person, I go to the local farm pond, drown a worm, and catch panfish (or coarse fish as you may call them in the UK).

If I'm a middle class person, perhaps I do a bit of salmon fishing on holiday, or have my own small boat and go after nearshore fish in the ocean. I'll take back my catch to share with friends, and use my photos of myself with my catch to brag to my fellow fishing buddies about my good day on the water.

BUT, if I am a very RICH person, I have my own fishing boat that sleeps six, has a galley, and a crew, and can get out to the canyons of the Gulf Stream or go off the coast of Costa Rica or Panama, and fish for trophy-sized marlin and go for a world record catch.

Obviously, as you go up in scale, it's almost always cheaper to just go to the fish market and buy fish if you're trying to see a "return". The worst return is the marlin fisherman, who may not even be able to eat his catch, and would have to tag and release it after its weight and length had been recorded. But that's not the point. The point is excitement, bragging rights, and the experience and thrill of having had your name recorded in the record books at the highest level of your hobby.

The only guy who is making any real return is the poor fellow drowning the worm, because he probably dug up his own worm, used a cheap fishing pole and cheap tackle, and didn't have to spend any gas money or buy a boat and so maybe he actually comes out ahead on the deal by catching more value in fish to eat than he spent in gear to catch them.

Now, I want to say that I am speaking in this thread in most cases in very general terms, about the nature of showing dogs in the US as a whole, not in a way specific to Whippets. Whippets are cheaper to special than most other breeds and we have had owner-handlers who have done very well at the Best in Show level. But I would say these people are as recognizable to the judges as the professionals, since although they do not advertise as much, they DO advertise, and further, they are out at shows at least three weekends a month, putting themselves, their dogs, and faces out there to be seen and recognized as "top" owner-handlers. You don't have to be a professional in this sport to succeed, but you must have the same skill in presentation as a professional and you must have the ability to hit shows all the time and to travel a thousand miles or more in pursuit of judges who like your style of dog and will reliably put you up.

So, hard work and a lot of miles on your vehicle and your dogs can substitute for a big advertising campaign, but it's a huge commitment of time and money to campaign even a cheap breed like a Whippet into the top 5 Whippets in the all-breed rankings.

 

[JAX]

I think Im a `worm drowner ` (w00t) I dont like big boats anyhow

No , seriously most of us are in the middle band here, many thanks for putting it in easy to understand terms

 

[Scudder]

Its certainly easy to make-up a dog here with no advertising, but I can't imagine trying to have a Top 20 special without it.

I consider an advertisement an investment. If I have to spend, lets say $200-$400 a weekend to go showing (entry fees, gas, hotel, handler expenses, food, whatnots) and it might take me 20 shows to get my dog noticed by all-arounder judges because they keep seeing the dog and handler over and over again - thats $4000-$8000 I've shelled out JUST to have the dog start getting noticed.

If I can cut those expenses (and TIME!!) down by putting in a $1000 worth of advertising to speed up the process by reaching my target audience (judges) its worth it!

Aside from the big all-breed magazines, I think its important for us to utilize the few breed magazines and newsletters that are available, too. The US is so large that your average breeder doesn't get to the other regions very often and even Nationals can be a bit regional with the plane shipping issue. Its important for us to be able to see champions and litters from around the country as we might never seen these dogs in the flesh unless we were to travel great distances (to great expense, too!)

I guess I see advertising a little differently because thats what I do for a living, too.

Kristen

 

[anniewhippet]

Its certainly easy to make-up a dog here with no advertising, but I can't imagine trying to have a Top 20 special without it.
I consider an advertisement an investment. If I have to spend, lets say $200-$400 a weekend to go showing (entry fees, gas, hotel, handler expenses, food, whatnots) and it might take me 20 shows to get my dog noticed by all-arounder judges because they keep seeing the dog and handler over and over again - thats $4000-$8000 I've shelled out JUST to have the dog start getting noticed.

If I can cut those expenses (and TIME!!) down by putting in a $1000 worth of advertising to speed up the process by reaching my target audience (judges) its worth it!

Aside from the big all-breed magazines, I think its important for us to utilize the few breed magazines and newsletters that are available, too. The US is so large that your average breeder doesn't get to the other regions very often and even Nationals can be a bit regional with the plane shipping issue. Its important for us to be able to see champions and litters from around the country as we might never seen these dogs in the flesh unless we were to travel great distances (to great expense, too!)

I guess I see advertising a little differently because thats what I do for a living, too.

Kristen

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Hi Kristen

Can see exactly what you are saying, and that of Karen, and it does happen here too in our dog papers & magazines and I am sure that it helps with promoting your dog.

But some of the costs quoted are quite scarey :blink: for the 'middle type man, as Jax says, and seems to mostly be done on a similar type of scale by the higher 'doers' in the UK. :thumbsup:

 

[UKUSA]

I dont think that you can compare the scale of advertising in the U.S to here. There are so many different factors involved. For example, every magazine and paper in the U.S is sent, free to every judge. All breed specific magazines are sent to every judge licensed to judge that particular breed.So to reach every single judge, that is flying from coast to coast you have got to do a lot of advertising. You have to imagine for example, that you live in California and your judge on Saturday is flying in from upstate New York and that this judge is not a breed specialist. They have received their copy of , lets say, THE SIGHTHOUND and see that your dog has recently gone B.O.B and Grp 1 at a recent show, well that can make things a lot easier for our travelling judge who might not be quite so certain of himself when judging Whippets. So advertising can help things along.

Nicky

 

[JAX]

So , are you saying some of the USA judges dont have their own opinions of the dogs and just put up whats done alot of winning (w00t)

Thats great , ,,,,,,,,,,,,, glad it dosnt happen here ( well not all the time )

 

[UKUSA]

So , are you saying some of the USA judges dont have their own opinions of the dogs and just put up whats done alot of winning  (w00t)
Thats great , ,,,,,,,,,,,,, glad it dosnt happen here ( well not all the time  )

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You may say that but I could nt possibly comment!!!!

Nicky

 

[patsy]

The sighthound magazine is sent out free of charge to all judges who give more than three sets of C.Cs in sighthounds.

 

[T Hoare]

I recently saw a copy of The Sighthound magazine, it looks well worth getting, lots of pictures, which always goes down well with me ie not too much reading. :thumbsup:

 

[UKUSA]

WE RE BACK, JUST WHEN YOU THOUGHT IT WAS SAFE................We have had a number of requests to keep this thread going, so here goes..........

A number of our friends from abroad have said how much they enjoyed Crufts. One of our American visitors, of many years standing in the breed felt that the depth of quality lay, interestingly enough, in the dogs, not something you hear very often and that a number of bitches were disappointing in head and lacking under jaw. I know that the old timers always said that "they don't run on their heads". For me, I like a nice head with good under jaw after all they have to be able to pick up a rabbit and I have to say that I love the beautifully sculptured heads on the American dogs. So what does everyone else think?

Nicky

 

[JAX]

I too like a nice feminine head on a bitch and a masculine one on a dog , but what I dont ever want to happen , is that whippets become a `head breed ` (w00t) like Boxers , Rough Collies , shelties , setters etc to name a few ( dont mean to offend people in these breed s, :huggles: ) ,

But a whippet is more than its head , and I too like a good under jaw , but would not over penalise an otherwise good specimin. , Judging is done on the positives of the breed , not faults IMO

 

[patsy]

It was very gratifying to hear from one of our American friends that she found the thread one of the most interesting threads she had read on the breed, even staying up until 2 a.m. to finish it.

Yes Jax there are head breeds, when you come to think of it most breeds are, and we must consider ourselves very lucky in Whippets that the judges don't think that the head is of very great importance, not in anyway easy to breed for a head type and construction. We must never forget that a Whippet does have a standard for the head, eyes ,ears and under jaw play an important part, I don't think that it is acceptable just to have a feminine bitch and a masculine dog, that is a complete cop out.

 

[dragonfly]

I love a good head too Nicky, but I don't buy the rabbit stuff. A determined whippet even with a weaker jaw will get the rabbit. Let's be honest we want a good head because it is beautiful to look at!

Come on folks, show us your heads. Post a picture of a beautiful head here....that's a whippet's head not your fave film star.

I'm starting with one of my favourites, I only have it in an arty watercolour effect now.

It's my own dog.

Cathie

 

[UKUSA]

Yes, yes yes Cathie but the standard doesn't say that they should have a weak under jaw, the under jaw should be strong to pick up and hold a rabbit, of course its important that it is strong.

Nicky

 

[playawhile]

There is a publication produced in Sweden named Scandinavian Sighthounds that is equivalent to The Sighthound Magazine. Last years issue was specialised on whippets and a number of breeders around the world as well as numerous Swedish were asked to pick a favourite whippet head and the one many picked was of Ch Play A While at Peperone and I am attaching two of him. He just had the most beautiful head!!!

He had the most thin and neat ears the I find is less seen these days...

Henrik

 

[playawhile]

I agree, I am happy that whippets are not a head breed!!! But I must say that a beautiful whippet head is something of the most aesthetic you can come across!!! The photo of Ch Courtney Fleetfoot of Pennyworth that was published in Life Magazine just makes me so happy to look at!!! In the new book by Bo Bengtson it is published in colour and makes him look even more gorgeous!!!!!!!!

Henrik

 

[patsy]

That is a stunning head study of Kim Henrik, it is also a correct head.

I think my Russell has a most lovely head but have not got a clue how to post a picture.