Idea's What Could Be Done

[dart]

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I HAVE NEVER OWNED A NO LIMIT DOG BUT I LOVE TO WATCH THIS RACING IT WAS GOOD AT ENGLISH DERBY AND AT WORCESTER AT CHAMPS SO LET PEOPLE WHO WANT TO RACES THESE DOGS RACE THEM STOP KNOCKING GOOD DOG MEN/LADYS IT MAKE IT A GOOD DAYS RACING.

 

[Fleesh]

Sick of people having a go at the scratch racers we all pay the same membership fees to the BWRA and NNWRF so we should all be treat equally   As for the scratch puppy,yearling and vetran classes often being solos this also often  what happens with the yards for pounders  :- "

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there is nobody that likes to watch the scratch racing more than me,all iam getting at is the way they are being bred ,get back to the proper way of breeding.

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I'm sure it would be the ideal solution in an ideal world though the sad fact of the matter is that sometimes there are good h/w handicap dogs (27/28lb+) that are good quality dogs with good bloodlines that have performed at the top level. Bitch owners can be guilty at times of going for the small stud dogs to put to their bitches in an attempt to produce l/w's that can win supremes at the numerous 150yds back dog yd/lb opens. Sometimes the only way a dog owner can get his/her dog used at stud is to put it to a greyhound, this in turn produces larger dogs ... which are unpopular with bitch owners who want to produce l/w's to win straight supremes ... etc. etc. It's not necessarily the scratch racers that fingers could be pointed at with respect to breeding programmes but everyone else that breeds as well.

Personally I don't give a stuff (as can be seen by my stud dog choices) if it's 17lb hurrah for me, if it's 31lb then hurrah for me too. A dog that is the top of it's game in it's weight section can impress me as much as, if not more than a dog that wins umpteen straight supremes. Same goes for the bends.

 

[Paws123]

Sick of people having a go at the scratch racers we all pay the same membership fees to the BWRA and NNWRF so we should all be treat equally   As for the scratch puppy,yearling and vetran classes often being solos this also often  what happens with the yards for pounders  :- "

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I am in not object to vet ,yearling and puppy scr ... do please don't get me wrong

what i am saying is at present the NNWRF were asked by some members if we could have the above in 3 classes the same as the adult scr classes 40lb. 48lb, and no limit ...most of this year theres only been one entry into each class .. example at the NNWRF straight champs the vet scr was in 3 classes...it cost the NNWRF think it was £25 for each class..we had coats with the NNWRF and the dogs name embroided on them...we how ever due to lack of entry have a number of coats left also other trophys through out the year...my suggestion would be to run vet, yearling and puppy scr all in , in stead of all the solo runs and gives the yearling and pups a bit of experience

 

[LJR]

Sick of people having a go at the scratch racers we all pay the same membership fees to the BWRA and NNWRF so we should all be treat equally   As for the scratch puppy,yearling and vetran classes often being solos this also often  what happens with the yards for pounders  :- "

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I am in not object to vet ,yearling and puppy scr ... do please don't get me wrong

what i am saying is at present the NNWRF were asked by some members if we could have the above in 3 classes the same as the adult scr classes 40lb. 48lb, and no limit ...most of this year theres only been one entry into each class .. example at the NNWRF straight champs the vet scr was in 3 classes...it cost the NNWRF think it was £25 for each class..we had coats with the NNWRF and the dogs name embroided on them...we how ever due to lack of entry have a number of coats left also other trophys through out the year...my suggestion would be to run vet, yearling and puppy scr all in , in stead of all the solo runs and gives the yearling and pups a bit of experience

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Understand what your saying but the same goes for the yearling yards for pounds who oftern have solos also. All i am saying dee is that we all pay the same entry fees to run our dogs so we should all be treat the same )

 

[sherry]

i agree with both dee and lisa. yes dee personally i think the pup/vet/yearling scr shud b all in or maybe do two diff classes like i dont know maybe 44lb scr and 55 lb scr as i know some people wudnt want to run say a 38lb with a 50lber so just a thought. but i think the whole yearling system needs looking @ too as sometimes a yearling weight class ie 30lb/35lb will only have one entry look back and u will c wot we mean

p.sorry vicky about the registerung thing i misread wot u and rodders were saying .

 

[Paws123]

I don't think theres many yearling yard lb solos this year ..maybe with the heaver 29lb to 35lb

Can i also add the super league ... 3 classes for vet scr , dogs need to qualify ... one dog in each class ... i put them all into a straight final, sup vet scr ...but they all a plate

If the entries were there i have no problem with running all 3 classes , but when no dogs for the class turn up its a waste of money buying the trophy's esp like the coats that can not be used for other events ... the last few opens ive added vet , yearling and puppy scr open to entries , hope no one minds ..esp on the bends

and i used the classes vet yearling pup as an example ..when some one suggested another class 60lb

 

[gary farmer]

impossible now :- "  its a masive part of our sport :thumbsup:   cant wait for mine wor john and steve bells  greyhound  :thumbsup:   thought youd packed in mr gill

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i have but that mean i can't have a opinion.

scr racing was introduced to cater for dogs over 32lb that were bred in the correct manner i,e, small whippet dog and a sprint greyhound ,now it's a JOKE and time it was stopped.

again just my opinion. :- "

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JOHN I RESPECT YOUR OPINION BUT DONT AGREE

BUT AT LEAST I KNOW WHO IM TALKING TO

SO WHAT SHOULD I DO WITH THESE PUPS THEN LOL :wacko:

GARY

 

[Paws123]

Nobody on this forum can tell me a 60lb dog is a whippet....

If breeders are aware that breeding deliberately the way some of them are doing ...is not accepted, and we would like them to down size as much as they can in the near future, plus if they are honest about it ...then these problems would not arise...yes every now and then pups will be born back to full size greyhound, but this would be genuine and most scr racers will accept it..I think

The problem is at present, some folks accusation that there a number of greyhound racing, which the present owners are aware of and lied to the organisation about the dogs breeding ... we also have another accusation that a greyhound x no limiter was breed and the dog racing has been registered as having the wrong brood ... to me we cannot allow this to happen, as if we close a blind eye to these few, we are opening the doors for others to do the same

Do agree we cannot stop dogs running now or pups that been breed already...but I think 2009 needs changes in the breeding program

I like the proposal that marielou is proposing

(Change the rules as I previously stated re: out crossing to greyhound) I would add a guideline for greyhound x whippet % that can be used for breeding...if only for a number of years to decrease size

(Both organisations adopt the up to 48lb weight group) although I would alter the weights a little different bwra and fed for variety for the scr racers...

 

[gary farmer]

Nobody on this forum can tell me a 60lb dog is a whippet....
If breeders are aware that breeding deliberately the way some of them are doing ...is not accepted, and we would like them to down size as much as they can in the near future, plus if they are honest about it ...then these problems would not arise...yes every now and then pups will be born back to full size greyhound, but this would be genuine and most scr racers will accept it..I think

The problem is at present, some folks accusation that there a number of greyhound racing, which the present owners are aware of and lied to the organisation about the dogs breeding ... we also have another accusation that a greyhound x no limiter was breed and the dog racing has been registered as having the wrong brood ... to me we cannot allow this to happen, as if we close a blind eye to these few, we are opening the doors for others to do the same

Do agree we cannot stop dogs running now or pups that been breed already...but I think 2009 needs changes in the breeding program

I like the proposal that marielou is proposing

(Change the rules as I previously stated re: out crossing to greyhound) I would add a guideline for greyhound  x whippet % that can be used for breeding...if only for a number of years to decrease size

(Both organisations adopt the up to 48lb weight group) although I would alter the weights a little different bwra and fed for variety for the scr racers...

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SORRY DENISE BUT DO NOT AGREE THE SCRATCH CLASS IS BIGGER THAN EVER BEFORE . YOU WILL ALWAYS GET PEOPLE GETTING A BIT PERSONAL ON K9 BUT IF IT WASNT THE SRATCH DOGS IT WOULD BE SOMETHING ELSEIM SURE IF LEFT ALONE IT WILL SORT ITS SELF OUT

ITS PEOPLE LIKE ME THAT TAKE THINGS TO HEART AND CANT STOP THEMSELVES :- " GARY

 

[sherry]

I don't think theres many yearling yard lb solos this year ..maybe with the heaver 29lb to 35lb

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sorry dee i disagree did some research whilst waiting 4 bb 2 come back on and this is woit i found and this is only the fed opens:

vivs quest @ dawdon, vet no limit hellbent ( solo) vet 40lb hellsbitch ( solo) but also yearlings 35lb china white ( solo)

cushti open @ swallownest, yearlings 28lb magic flyer ( solo) yearling scr 4 entries

june steel @ devon, vet no limit hellbent ( solo) 40lb vet dodgy chaser ( solo) yearling 48lb blaze of glory ( solo) but also yearlings 25lb rogi bear ( solo) yearlings 35lb sid young ( solo)

puppy/yearling champs @ old hall, 40lb pup milliebelle ( solo) 48lb pup deneside colin ( solo) but also dog yearling 21lb close harmony ( solo)

kias ora @ kirkaldy, 48lb adult as ya do ( solo) 40lb vet dodgy chaser ( solo) vet no limit hellbent ( solo) yearling no limit pagan prince ( solo) 40lb pup millielbelle ( solo) 48lb pup deneside colin ( solo) this open was the exception where all the yds for pounds yearlings actually raced.

superleague adults 48lb denesdie colin ( solo) no limit adult ragtime blue ( solo)

also 27lb yearlings kentucky ( solo) 31lb yearlings mistake peak ( solo0

so i personally dont think the scratch have that many more solos than some of the yds per pounds. 8 mins till big brother final now lol

 

[milly]

I don't think theres many yearling yard lb solos this year ..maybe with the heaver 29lb to 35lb

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sorry dee i disagree did some research whilst waiting 4 bb 2 come back on and this is woit i found and this is only the fed opens:

vivs quest @ dawdon, vet no limit hellbent ( solo) vet 40lb hellsbitch ( solo) but also yearlings 35lb china white ( solo)

cushti open @ swallownest, yearlings 28lb magic flyer ( solo) yearling scr 4 entries

june steel @ devon, vet no limit hellbent ( solo) 40lb vet dodgy chaser ( solo) yearling 48lb blaze of glory ( solo) but also yearlings 25lb rogi bear ( solo) yearlings 35lb sid young ( solo)

puppy/yearling champs @ old hall, 40lb pup milliebelle ( solo) 48lb pup deneside colin ( solo) but also dog yearling 21lb close harmony ( solo)

kias ora @ kirkaldy, 48lb adult as ya do ( solo) 40lb vet dodgy chaser ( solo) vet no limit hellbent ( solo) yearling no limit pagan prince ( solo) 40lb pup millielbelle ( solo) 48lb pup deneside colin ( solo) this open was the exception where all the yds for pounds yearlings actually raced.

superleague adults 48lb denesdie colin ( solo) no limit adult ragtime blue ( solo)

also 27lb yearlings kentucky ( solo) 31lb yearlings mistake peak ( solo0

so i personally dont think the scratch have that many more solos than some of the yds per pounds. 8 mins till big brother final now lol

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A good bit of research there Carole :thumbsup:

ps. another proverb -_- My son's, if sinners entice you, do not give into them o

 

[JOHNG]

impossible now :- "  its a masive part of our sport :thumbsup:   cant wait for mine wor john and steve bells  greyhound  :thumbsup:   thought youd packed in mr gill

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i have but that mean i can't have a opinion.

scr racing was introduced to cater for dogs over 32lb that were bred in the correct manner i,e, small whippet dog and a sprint greyhound ,now it's a JOKE and time it was stopped.

again just my opinion. :- "

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JOHN I RESPECT YOUR OPINION BUT DONT AGREE

BUT AT LEAST I KNOW WHO IM TALKING TO

SO WHAT SHOULD I DO WITH THESE PUPS THEN LOL :wacko:

GARY

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quite simple gary stop breeding them too big :thumbsup:

 

[rob67]

I personally think there needs to be some changes in the scratch racing, and whether you know an awful lot about it, or very little, surely everyones opinions are welcome? I think maries suggestions have a great deal of thought behind them, as do the others that have been included in the sensible part of this thread. And are born out of a desire to protect the dogs that we race, no matter their size or parentage.

As someone who hasnt got much knowledge about the breeding of dogs and the history of whippet racing I can still recognise that breeding greyhound Xwhippet back to a full greyhound continually was something that has been seen as a problem in the past, talked about, and agreement reached that breeders would resist the urge to breed back to grews again. If this strategy has not worked over the past few years why should it work now? Perhaps the time has come to look at new ways of ensuring that it doesn't happen.

If committment can be gained from both organisations to do this,and discover the truth behind all the allegations made, not just certain chosen one's, then surely we can work it out. If you look back at this thread, and the closed one's, it has been mainly scratch racers that have commented and raised concerns. It's not about 'getting at scratch racers' although I'm sure those that condoned the 32lb limit for dogs will be clapping their hands!

Let's go with some of the decent suggestions on here, and their counter arguments and discuss them in an adult manner,face to face, where people will be offered the chance to be heard and listened to. Maybe the BWRA AGM could be one place for the discussion, and the FED I'm sure would do the same, wherever and whenever that night be.

chris ( sorry it's so long )

 

[Trojan]

Well as this one is an ideas topic - as i have said before think it would it be a good time to start and restrict breeding slightly by only allowing puppies to be registered into the organisations if their parents have already been registered in the whippet organisations. Therefore no full greyhounds would be used for breeding as obviously not registered. Over the years we have put in so much good greyhound blood perhaps now the gene pool can run without the use of greyhound brood bitches, if people like the bigger dogs it can still be maintained by by breeding no limits with no limits if thats their choice, but at the same time we would then be back to racing 'non peds' with not quite so much greyhound in them. I am not trying to suggest how people should breed its just one way that maybe we could tighten up and maybe downsize slightly again as it has been said even the heavyweights are now much bigger than in the past!!!!!

This maybe boring as it has been posted on a different topic very similar subject but i still have the same views

 

[gary farmer]

there is no easy solution to this dilemma without affecting some genuine members dogs I would hate for that to happen perhaps the way forward is accept what are allready registered as what they are supposed to be non-ped whippets when weve weeded out the imposters if we can and look to what we accept for registration in the future i.e no greyhound blood for the next 5 years, no 3/4 gh x 3/4 gh, no imported stock

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SORRY LINDA JUST WATCH IF THIS WAS TO HAPPEN READ THIS TOPIC IN 5 YEARS TIME

1 UNDER SHOT PUPS

2 DOUBLE MUSCLING

3 BULLY TYPE PUPS

4 MORE C SECTIONS THAN EVER BEFORE

5 PUPS WITH NO GENITALS

THIS IS JUST FIVE OF THE THINGS YOU WILL GET IF YOU WAS TO CLOSE THE GENE POOL FOR MORE THAN A FEW GENERATOINS

YOU MIGHT THINK IM TALKING RUBBISH BUT IT WILL HAPPEN

AND I WONT BE ROUND WAITING FOR IT . SO I CAN SAY TOLD YOU SO

GARY

 

[gary farmer]

The simple solution for all those not wanting any ghd in their breeding or not wanting to run with the bigger ghd cross dogs is buy a KC registered pedigree whippet. I believe they have their own race events where only dogs of guarrenteed pure parentage can run. You might want to consider what closing the gene pool has done to the KC whippet though.
I personaly don't want to run little dogs and I suspect many scratch racers feel the same way. If the type of dog I want to run isn't accommadated by the BWRA or NNWRF then I won't run with those organisations. I could always go back lurcher racing. Any scratch racing titles given out by organisations with a restricted entry will be worthless since the winning dog won't be the fastest dog in the country anymore - that accolade will belong to the top racing "lurcher". No doubt, rather like the peds, we'll end up with a situation where the champ dogs won't race against lurchers to save them the embarrasment of being beaten.

I appears to me the people wanting change have no knowledge of how the current non ped type was originaly formed, no knowledge of the history of whippet racing, no knowledge of basic genetics, no understanding of the ramification of closing the gene pool on the current type and misunderstand what the result of effectively ruining scratch racing will have on the membership levels and financial status of the whippet racing bodies.

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MY THOUGHTS ENTIRELY GARY :thumbsup:

 

[Trojan]

:- "

"I appears to me the people wanting change have no knowledge of how the current non ped type was originaly formed, no knowledge of the history of whippet racing, no knowledge of basic genetics, no understanding of the ramification of closing the gene pool on the current type and misunderstand what the result of effectively ruining scratch racing will have on the membership levels and financial status of the whippet racing bodies."

Tony i won't spit out my dummy or stop coming on k9 but i do think statements that people entering into certain debates have no knowledge of the historyof whippet racing, genetics etc. could be a bit of a low blow, as having been in whippet racing since birth and my parents being in whippet racing since the 1950's and showing kc whippets and beginning their racing in the 'pedigree' kc registered section it's a bit of a sweeping statement - oh yes and as a family have also raced greyhounds too

 

[mutley]

personally i dont think theres any need for change just my opinion god 10 year ago we had 50 pound dogs and over so whats new scratch racing makes whippet racing events as much as yard a pounders wich i have myself breeding any whippet from any stock from past greyhound blood can throw big like i said Chris and rob have a 35 pounder from my own little 17 pound bitch to wor john 26 pound :- " so what would happen to non ped and not just necessarily scratch whippets that go over a certain weight bigger certainly dosnt mean faster

 

[Tony Taylor]

Nobody on this forum can tell me a 60lb dog is a whippet....

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What's Deneside Belle then ? If he isn't a whippet then what is Mai-zee-mu ? Since they are litter brother and sister it would be odd for one to be a whippet and the other not.

A 3 generation limit on the ghd won't work because

a) people will lie

b)mate Deneside Belle to Our Ebby and you still have a "half" cross but what are the chances of them being small? Mate brother to sister from this litter or any big half cross and then you'd be allowed back to the ghd. Geneticaly you're still as near as dammit to a full ghd as the 7/8ths and 15/16ths people seem to object to.

Why do people want to exclude the super saturated ghd crosses anyway/ The only people it affects are the no limit scratch racers. The breeding doesn't affect the handicap or smaller scratch classes in any case since it's highly unlikely anyone would consider them for breeding other than no limit dogs.

If you think the non ped type can do without ghd blood you're very much mistaken. There are very few handicap dogs that can go back 5 generations without a ghd in the breeding. If you total up the total known ghd blood it's more than you might imagine and that's ignoring the fact that the ghd is the basis of the breed in the first place.

The smaller whippet is not a true breeding type like peds are. They are a ghd base whose phenotype or body shape is altered by a very small number of genes. The more of these aberrant genes the dog has the smaller it is. Continually breeding 18lbs together wont produce a whippet that can match an 18lb bred down from a near ghd ancestor. Without the ghd breeding the non ped type will end up worse than the peds in no time at all and would easily be beaten by a "lurcher" with ghd ancestory.

The easiest way to prevent the none problem of continually breeding to the ghd is to allow fullghd in the no limit having the extra scratch classes as the NNWRF has as the removes the point of breeding such crosses in the first place.

There's no point in saying the no limit is for whippets if you're going to say a 60lb dog isn't a whippet in any case.

 

[ahorsnall]

:- "
"I appears to me the people wanting change have no knowledge of how the current non ped type was originaly formed, no knowledge of the history of whippet racing, no knowledge of basic genetics, no understanding of the ramification of closing the gene pool on the current type and misunderstand what the result of effectively ruining scratch racing will have on the membership levels and financial status of the whippet racing bodies."

Tony i won't spit out my dummy or stop coming on k9 but i do think statements that people entering into certain debates have no knowledge of whippet racing, genetics etc. could be a bit of a low blow, as having been in whippet racing since birth and my parents being in whippet racing since the 1950's and showing kc whippets and beginning their racing in the 'pedigree' kc registered section it's a bit of a sweeping statement - oh yes and as a family have also raced greyhounds too 

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history of racing :- " was it extented to 32lb to cater for the bigger dogs :- " knowledge :wacko: