Question For Judges/breeders/exhibitors

[Seraphina]

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Now this is another one that I would be very interested in knowing others opinions of....a floating rib? Fault? deformity? or what? And should the dog be penalised for having it?

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Floating ribs are the last ribs, they are perfectly normal

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yes,but I was led to believe that a floating rib was where the last rib stuck out a little from the rest of the ribcage ie:not lying flat to the body but protruding slightly...am I making any sense?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yes but that is still a normal rib, unlike the tooth which has grown as 2 from the same root - that ,means at one stage the sells divided abnormally. I am not sure how to explain it.....maybe the difference between having extra finger or having slightly crooked finger?

 

[nina]

[

Now this is another one that I would be very interested in knowing others opinions of....a floating rib? Fault? deformity? or what? And should the dog be penalised for having it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Floating ribs are the last ribs, they are perfectly normal

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yes,but I was led to believe that a floating rib was where the last rib stuck out a little from the rest of the ribcage ie:not lying flat to the body but protruding slightly...am I making any sense?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yes but that is still a normal rib, unlike the tooth which has grown as 2 from the same root - that ,means at one stage the sells divided abnormally. I am not sure how to explain it.....maybe the difference between having extra finger or having slightly crooked finger?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

But is it normal to jut out from the body at such an angle into a sharp point?

Why dont all dogs have it then?

 

[Seraphina]

Kinky tails are definitely hereditary, they were very quite widespread in Danes, they were also in the original Siamese cats. Nowadays that trait is all but bred out of the Siamese, do not know about the Danes. Therefore it is more likely to be hereditary. But if you keep line breeding dogs with crooked tails all you are likely to get more pups with crooked tails, which would be annoying. But getting pups with mouth bristling with double teeth is somewhat more serious. Dentition inheritance is extremely complicated and many breeds have already awful teeth problems. Friend of mine is a dentist, and also breeder and judge, I will be visiting them in couple of weeks time and will ask him then.

Considering that we are lucky and Whippet is a quite numerous breed we are not in the position that we have to choose between beautiful dog with double tooth and awful dog with perfect teeth, there are plenty of good dogs with good teeth.

 

[Seraphina]

[

Now this is another one that I would be very interested in knowing others opinions of....a floating rib? Fault? deformity? or what? And should the dog be penalised for having it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Floating ribs are the last ribs, they are perfectly normal

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yes,but I was led to believe that a floating rib was where the last rib stuck out a little from the rest of the ribcage ie:not lying flat to the body but protruding slightly...am I making any sense?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yes but that is still a normal rib, unlike the tooth which has grown as 2 from the same root - that ,means at one stage the sells divided abnormally. I am not sure how to explain it.....maybe the difference between having extra finger or having slightly crooked finger?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

But is it normal to jut out from the body at such an angle into a sharp point?

Why dont all dogs have it then?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I have never seen one like that, is it possible that the pup injured itself? But the term "floating rib" is a term used in all my anatomy book to describe the last pair of ribs, which are not attached, and ALL dogs as well as other animals do have them. If it stuck out abnormally that would also be something I would be watching for. If bitch produced half the litter like that I would not breed from her again, nor would I keep any of her normal pups. If i got just one, from a bitch that is 3rd generation my breeding and I never seen it before, i would be just cautious.

 

[Mychaka]

This is an interesting topic as I was shown by the owner a fused tooth on one of their dogs which they had thought of pulling from the show ring as at a allbreeds champ show she was placed last in the class due to her teeth but then at the speciality I was at, it was placed first - the owners explaination of the tooth was different to what is written here and what my thoughts were.

This was the first time I had seen a fused tooth on a whippet.

Cristina

 

[nina]

[

Now this is another one that I would be very interested in knowing others opinions of....a floating rib? Fault? deformity? or what? And should the dog be penalised for having it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Floating ribs are the last ribs, they are perfectly normal

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yes,but I was led to believe that a floating rib was where the last rib stuck out a little from the rest of the ribcage ie:not lying flat to the body but protruding slightly...am I making any sense?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yes but that is still a normal rib, unlike the tooth which has grown as 2 from the same root - that ,means at one stage the sells divided abnormally. I am not sure how to explain it.....maybe the difference between having extra finger or having slightly crooked finger?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

But is it normal to jut out from the body at such an angle into a sharp point?

Why dont all dogs have it then?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I have never seen one like that, is it possible that the pup injured itself? But the term "floating rib" is a term used in all my anatomy book to describe the last pair of ribs, which are not attached, and ALL dogs as well as other animals do have them. If it stuck out abnormally that would also be something I would be watching for. If bitch produced half the litter like that I would not breed from her again, nor would I keep any of her normal pups. If i got just one, from a bitch that is 3rd generation my breeding and I never seen it before, i would be just cautious.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Floating rib over here means just that ITS FLOATING! Yes it does stick out & does not look like the "normal" last rib.

Wonder if anyone has a piccy of this????

 

[nina]

Kinky tails are definitely hereditary, they were very quite widespread in Danes, they were also in the original Siamese cats.  Nowadays that trait is all but bred out of the Siamese, do not know about the Danes.  Therefore it is more likely to be hereditary.  But if you keep line breeding dogs with crooked tails all you are likely to get more pups with crooked tails, which would be annoying.  But getting pups with mouth bristling with double teeth is somewhat more serious.  Dentition inheritance is extremely complicated and many breeds have already awful teeth problems.  Friend of mine is a dentist, and also breeder and judge, I will be visiting them in couple of weeks time and will ask him then. 
Considering that we are lucky and Whippet is a quite numerous breed we are not in the position that we have to choose between beautiful dog with double tooth and awful dog with perfect teeth, there are plenty of good dogs with good teeth.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yes i agree, kinked tails are def hereditary & i know this from another breed other than whippets :thumbsup:

Also yes i agree too that one would always try to breed most definitely from animals with perfect dentition BUT i know that split tooth has popped up unknown on several occassions from a mating with 2 parents with perfect dentition so has obviously thrown back without the breeder/s being aware that it even exists.

 

[Seraphina]

This is an interesting topic as I was shown by the owner a fused tooth on one of their dogs which they had thought of pulling from the show ring as at a allbreeds champ show she was placed last in the class due to her teeth but then at the speciality I was at, it was placed first - the owners explaination of the tooth was different to what is written here and what my thoughts were.
This was the first time I had seen a fused tooth on a whippet.

Cristina

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Well, what was it?

 

[nina]

This is an interesting topic as I was shown by the owner a fused tooth on one of their dogs which they had thought of pulling from the show ring as at a allbreeds champ show she was placed last in the class due to her teeth but then at the speciality I was at, it was placed first - the owners explaination of the tooth was different to what is written here and what my thoughts were.
This was the first time I had seen a fused tooth on a whippet.

Cristina

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Hi Cristina

This is very interesting. May i ask how did the fused tooth you were shown by the owner differ from the photo i have managed to put on? How was it different?

What was the owners explanation if you are able to relay it?

 

[rls22]

[

Now this is another one that I would be very interested in knowing others opinions of....a floating rib? Fault? deformity? or what? And should the dog be penalised for having it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Floating ribs are the last ribs, they are perfectly normal

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yes,but I was led to believe that a floating rib was where the last rib stuck out a little from the rest of the ribcage ie:not lying flat to the body but protruding slightly...am I making any sense?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yes but that is still a normal rib, unlike the tooth which has grown as 2 from the same root - that ,means at one stage the sells divided abnormally. I am not sure how to explain it.....maybe the difference between having extra finger or having slightly crooked finger?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

But is it normal to jut out from the body at such an angle into a sharp point?

Why dont all dogs have it then?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I have never seen one like that, is it possible that the pup injured itself? But the term "floating rib" is a term used in all my anatomy book to describe the last pair of ribs, which are not attached, and ALL dogs as well as other animals do have them. If it stuck out abnormally that would also be something I would be watching for. If bitch produced half the litter like that I would not breed from her again, nor would I keep any of her normal pups. If i got just one, from a bitch that is 3rd generation my breeding and I never seen it before, i would be just cautious.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Floating rib over here means just that ITS FLOATING! Yes it does stick out & does not look like the "normal" last rib.

Wonder if anyone has a piccy of this????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I know of several people with dogs with floating ribs. Hopefully one of them will post a picture on here.

This is making really interesting reading :thumbsup:

 

[nina]

[

Now this is another one that I would be very interested in knowing others opinions of....a floating rib? Fault? deformity? or what? And should the dog be penalised for having it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Floating ribs are the last ribs, they are perfectly normal

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yes,but I was led to believe that a floating rib was where the last rib stuck out a little from the rest of the ribcage ie:not lying flat to the body but protruding slightly...am I making any sense?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yes but that is still a normal rib, unlike the tooth which has grown as 2 from the same root - that ,means at one stage the sells divided abnormally. I am not sure how to explain it.....maybe the difference between having extra finger or having slightly crooked finger?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

But is it normal to jut out from the body at such an angle into a sharp point?

Why dont all dogs have it then?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I have never seen one like that, is it possible that the pup injured itself? But the term "floating rib" is a term used in all my anatomy book to describe the last pair of ribs, which are not attached, and ALL dogs as well as other animals do have them. If it stuck out abnormally that would also be something I would be watching for. If bitch produced half the litter like that I would not breed from her again, nor would I keep any of her normal pups. If i got just one, from a bitch that is 3rd generation my breeding and I never seen it before, i would be just cautious.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Floating rib over here means just that ITS FLOATING! Yes it does stick out & does not look like the "normal" last rib.

Wonder if anyone has a piccy of this????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I know of several people with dogs with floating ribs. Hopefully one of them will post a picture on here.

This is making really interesting reading :thumbsup:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I had an IG once with a floating rib but it didnt impede him at all & he gained his title easily

Unfortunately he is old & FAT now & you cant see any ribs at all let alone the floating one :- " :blink: :lol:

 

[rls22]

[

Now this is another one that I would be very interested in knowing others opinions of....a floating rib? Fault? deformity? or what? And should the dog be penalised for having it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Floating ribs are the last ribs, they are perfectly normal

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yes,but I was led to believe that a floating rib was where the last rib stuck out a little from the rest of the ribcage ie:not lying flat to the body but protruding slightly...am I making any sense?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yes but that is still a normal rib, unlike the tooth which has grown as 2 from the same root - that ,means at one stage the sells divided abnormally. I am not sure how to explain it.....maybe the difference between having extra finger or having slightly crooked finger?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

But is it normal to jut out from the body at such an angle into a sharp point?

Why dont all dogs have it then?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I have never seen one like that, is it possible that the pup injured itself? But the term "floating rib" is a term used in all my anatomy book to describe the last pair of ribs, which are not attached, and ALL dogs as well as other animals do have them. If it stuck out abnormally that would also be something I would be watching for. If bitch produced half the litter like that I would not breed from her again, nor would I keep any of her normal pups. If i got just one, from a bitch that is 3rd generation my breeding and I never seen it before, i would be just cautious.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Floating rib over here means just that ITS FLOATING! Yes it does stick out & does not look like the "normal" last rib.

Wonder if anyone has a piccy of this????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I know of several people with dogs with floating ribs. Hopefully one of them will post a picture on here.

This is making really interesting reading :thumbsup:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I had an IG once with a floating rib but it didnt impede him at all & he gained his title easily

Unfortunately he is old & FAT now & you cant see any ribs at all let alone the floating one :- " :blink: :lol:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

:lol: He's an oldie that's allowed! :huggles:

I think I may have a photo of a dog with a floating rib but as it's not one of mine I don't think I should post it :unsure:

 

[nina]

[

Now this is another one that I would be very interested in knowing others opinions of....a floating rib? Fault? deformity? or what? And should the dog be penalised for having it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Floating ribs are the last ribs, they are perfectly normal

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yes,but I was led to believe that a floating rib was where the last rib stuck out a little from the rest of the ribcage ie:not lying flat to the body but protruding slightly...am I making any sense?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yes but that is still a normal rib, unlike the tooth which has grown as 2 from the same root - that ,means at one stage the sells divided abnormally. I am not sure how to explain it.....maybe the difference between having extra finger or having slightly crooked finger?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

But is it normal to jut out from the body at such an angle into a sharp point?

Why dont all dogs have it then?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I have never seen one like that, is it possible that the pup injured itself? But the term "floating rib" is a term used in all my anatomy book to describe the last pair of ribs, which are not attached, and ALL dogs as well as other animals do have them. If it stuck out abnormally that would also be something I would be watching for. If bitch produced half the litter like that I would not breed from her again, nor would I keep any of her normal pups. If i got just one, from a bitch that is 3rd generation my breeding and I never seen it before, i would be just cautious.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Floating rib over here means just that ITS FLOATING! Yes it does stick out & does not look like the "normal" last rib.

Wonder if anyone has a piccy of this????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I know of several people with dogs with floating ribs. Hopefully one of them will post a picture on here.

This is making really interesting reading :thumbsup:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I had an IG once with a floating rib but it didnt impede him at all & he gained his title easily

Unfortunately he is old & FAT now & you cant see any ribs at all let alone the floating one :- " :blink: :lol:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

:lol: He's an oldie that's allowed! :huggles:

I think I may have a photo of a dog with a floating rib but as it's not one of mine I don't think I should post it :unsure:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

No, not without the owners permission :sweating:

I will try & find someone to supply one :thumbsup:

 

[Seraphina]

Floating rib over here means just that ITS FLOATING! Yes it does stick out & does not look like the "normal" last rib.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I am not sure what do you mean by "over here"? Do you mean that whole UK has a different definition of floating ribs to the rest of the world?

Actually you have some floating ribs as well, unless over there you are different

floating ribs in human

another floating rib

in dogs

in greyhound

 

[nina]

Floating rib over here means just that ITS FLOATING! Yes it does stick out & does not look like the "normal" last rib.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I am not sure what do you mean by "over here"? Do you mean that whole UK has a different definition of floating ribs to the rest of the world?

Actually you have some floating ribs as well, unless over there you are different

floating ribs in human

another floating rib

in dogs

in greyhound

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Just trying to explain that your definition of floating rib ie "being the last rib" is not what I personally mean as floating rib :- "

So i am thinking that where you are has a different definition as to "over here" as to what we in UK call floating rib??

I personally call "floating rib" a rib that protrudes abnormally from the body & you can not only feel but see the jutted out point.

Now i am guessing Seraphina that where you are maybe has a different explanation BUT this is what in the UK I call a floating rib, but cant speak for anyone else :- "

 

[Ridgesetter]

As a judge, I would hope that I look at the virtues and not the faults of dogs. When assessing any breed of dog, one should consider the hallmarks first and foremost. Then you consider if there are any disqualifying points (which there are in some breeds, eg, size, colour and dentition). And most importantly, you are comparing the qualities of dogs entered against each other on the day.

Judges, in most instances, are or were breeders so when you judge, you take your breeders hat off. I have often judged dogs, and given placings to, that I would not breed from (more in my RR's than whippets).

I think I mentioned in another thread somewhere that often new exhibitors buy a dog on recommendation from a breeder. This breeder becomes their mentor and this is where they get all their information. Some exhibitors never query what they are told and I bet there are many who don't read their breed standard or the expansion. Now this is okay for someone who does get their dog from an honest, knowledgeable, ethical and responsible breeder. However, each and every one of us grades deviations / faults differently so where one breeder will happily breed with a fused tooth, others will not. I doubt many judges would specifically penalise a dog for this, but as breeders, they may have concerns.

To get a definitive answer on who will penalise what is extremely difficult as it is often based on experience. Whilst as a judge I may allow some minor deviations in a bite, as a breeder I would have strong reservations about introducing this into my breeding as my years of listening to other breeders, attending lectures, experience and knowledge has taught me that any fault will be repeated if you keep breeding with it.

And just to complicate it, breeding and exhibiting are two separate things. :- " For example, a breeder may not exhibit a fused tooth / prick ear / short tail etc., but they may breed from this dog/bitch because they feel everything else about the dog is correct.

We all start somewhere. The challenge is to understand, reduce and eliminate the faults / deviations and strengthen the virtues.

Cheers

 

[rls22]

Floating rib over here means just that ITS FLOATING! Yes it does stick out & does not look like the "normal" last rib.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I am not sure what do you mean by "over here"? Do you mean that whole UK has a different definition of floating ribs to the rest of the world?

Actually you have some floating ribs as well, unless over there you are different

floating ribs in human

another floating rib

in dogs

in greyhound

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Just trying to explain that your definition of floating rib ie "being the last rib" is not what I personally mean as floating rib :- "

So i am thinking that where you are has a different definition as to "over here" as to what we in UK call floating rib??

I personally call "floating rib" a rib that protrudes abnormally from the body & you can not only feel but see the jutted out point.

Now i am guessing Seraphina that where you are maybe has a different explanation BUT this is what in the UK I call a floating rib, but cant speak for anyone else :- "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

That is my interpretation of floating rib too.

 

[nina]

As a judge, I would hope that I look at the virtues and not the faults of dogs.  When assessing any breed of dog, one should consider the hallmarks first and foremost.  Then you consider if there are any disqualifying points (which there are in some breeds, eg, size, colour and dentition).  And most importantly, you are comparing the qualities of dogs entered against each other on the day.
Judges, in most instances, are or were breeders so when you judge, you take your breeders hat off.  I have often judged dogs, and given placings to, that I would not breed from (more in my RR's than whippets). 

I think I mentioned in another thread somewhere that often new exhibitors buy a dog on recommendation from a breeder.  This breeder becomes their mentor and this is where they get all their information.  Some exhibitors never query what they are told and I bet there are many who don't read their breed standard or the expansion.  Now this is okay for someone who does get their dog from an honest, knowledgeable, ethical and responsible breeder.  However, each and every one of us grades deviations / faults differently so where one breeder will happily breed with a fused tooth, others will not.  I doubt many judges would specifically penalise a dog for this, but as breeders, they may have concerns.

To get a definitive answer on who will penalise what is extremely difficult as it is often based on experience.  Whilst as a judge I may allow some minor deviations in a bite, as a breeder I would have strong reservations about introducing this into my breeding as my years of listening to other breeders, attending lectures, experience and knowledge has taught me that any fault will be repeated if you keep breeding with it.   

And just to complicate it, breeding and exhibiting are two separate things.    :- "  For example, a breeder may not exhibit a fused tooth / prick ear / short tail etc., but they may breed from this dog/bitch because they feel everything else about the dog is correct. 

We all start somewhere.  The challenge is to understand, reduce and eliminate the faults / deviations and strengthen the virtues.   

Cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Totally agree & some great points :thumbsup:

Any fault, abnormality or personal dislike bred on from does not bode well for the furure :- "

It is soooo true that the challenge is to understand, reduce and eliminate the faults / deviations and strengthen the virtues.

Such a good post :thumbsup:

 

[nina]

Floating rib over here means just that ITS FLOATING! Yes it does stick out & does not look like the "normal" last rib.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I am not sure what do you mean by "over here"? Do you mean that whole UK has a different definition of floating ribs to the rest of the world?

Actually you have some floating ribs as well, unless over there you are different

floating ribs in human

another floating rib

in dogs

in greyhound

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Just trying to explain that your definition of floating rib ie "being the last rib" is not what I personally mean as floating rib :- "

So i am thinking that where you are has a different definition as to "over here" as to what we in UK call floating rib??

I personally call "floating rib" a rib that protrudes abnormally from the body & you can not only feel but see the jutted out point.

Now i am guessing Seraphina that where you are maybe has a different explanation BUT this is what in the UK I call a floating rib, but cant speak for anyone else :- "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

That is my interpretation of floating rib too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Glad of that as i know obviously in different places terminology means totally different things :thumbsup:

 

[05whippet]

Floating rib over here means just that ITS FLOATING! Yes it does stick out & does not look like the "normal" last rib.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I am not sure what do you mean by "over here"? Do you mean that whole UK has a different definition of floating ribs to the rest of the world?

Actually you have some floating ribs as well, unless over there you are different

floating ribs in human

another floating rib

in dogs

in greyhound

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Just trying to explain that your definition of floating rib ie "being the last rib" is not what I personally mean as floating rib :- "

So i am thinking that where you are has a different definition as to "over here" as to what we in UK call floating rib??

I personally call "floating rib" a rib that protrudes abnormally from the body & you can not only feel but see the jutted out point.

Now i am guessing Seraphina that where you are maybe has a different explanation BUT this is what in the UK I call a floating rib, but cant speak for anyone else :- "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

That is my interpretation of floating rib too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

And mine. :thumbsup: