Racing/lure coursing

[~JO~]

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Sorry if I offend anyone but I can't help feeling that the response from the showing fraternity on this subject has been less than gracious.
Would you expect your show whippet to compete fairly in a race against racing whippets (after all what are whippets for?) so why should you be so afraid of competition from genuine racing whippets who will doubtless be penalised for being "over muscled" and "needing more weight"?

What have you got to be afraid of?

Angela

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I am sorry Angela but I really don't think anyone has been less than gracious. I think this has been a very well balanced discussion.

I also don't think anyone is 'scared' of anything. We all know how highly competitive showing is, so a few extra exhibitors doesn't make much difference!

I think the only moan that has been from a few showing people, is that when the rules are quite lax for racing/lure coursing class if they only have to conform to those (and not normal qualification from a champ show) it is not fair when to go into the other classes we have to qualify which is definitely not easy to do! Especially if the winner of the class then gets to compete for the CC.

I think that basically the rules need to be looked at for this and I am not going to say more for more fear of repeating more of what has already been said by many.... Some of the other responses with suggestions are excellent and really it's a shame the KC won't read them.

Posted at the same time at Wendy - whose response is excellent!

 

[TC]

Sorry if I offend anyone but I can't help feeling that the response from the showing fraternity on this subject has been less than gracious.
Would you expect your show whippet to compete fairly in a race against racing whippets (after all what are whippets for?) so why should you be so afraid of competition from genuine racing whippets who will doubtless be penalised for being "over muscled" and "needing more weight"?

What have you got to be afraid of?

Angela

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Angela,

Nobody is afraid of anything :thumbsup:

All I want is clarification as to whether one of my dogs could have entered Crufts in the R&LC class, as he meets the class requirements, but does not meet the normal qualification regulations as laid out in the schedule.

If you are referring to whether the R&LC Class winner (if unbeaten) should be eligible for the challenge, then I don't believe anyone is afraid of this, they purely what to know if this is the case. It is about principles regarding entry to the highly revered Crufts, and not about being ungracious.

I think if you look back over the entire thread, there are many racing whippet owners who have doubted themselves (as the KC seem to be doing) over the qualification process, so it is clearly a very grey area, that requires clarification.

Tracy

 

[~elizabeth~]

Overall I don't think anyone has been insulting, of either race or show which (as Mark already pointed out) means that WOW we CAN actually discuss it without getting offensive and personal.

Not on this thread perhaps, but these things are actually said in private, I think that's one of the reasons this thread is so emotionally charged. I have no faith in showing as a test of anything, I think judging against the 'breed standard' is actually highly subjective, yet having received malicious comments about my dog(s) I feel I need to have them evaluated in public, by judges who are experienced across disciplines.

 

[chelynnah]

Overall I don't think anyone has been insulting, of either race or show which (as Mark already pointed out) means that WOW we CAN actually discuss it without getting offensive and personal.

Not on this thread perhaps, but these things are actually said in private, I think that's one of the reasons this thread is so emotionally charged. I have no faith in showing as a test of anything, I think judging against the 'breed standard' is actually highly subjective, yet having received malicious comments about my dog(s) I feel I need to have them evaluated in public, by judges who are experienced across disciplines.

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My reply was in direct response to the accusation of rudeness on the thread of show people to race people. And that has not happened that I can see. I don't doubt that offensive things are said by both racing and showing proponents privately. But they have NOT been said on this thread which was the complaint.

As for evaluation and breed standard - it's your choice to decide who you might take your dog under if you were to show or to choose who you would like to evaluate your dog. We all make those choices - race or show. Even within the showing community there are different types, and different judges prefer different types (but they all fall within the standard - it differs in interpretation and sometimes on the weight certain judges put on different aspects of the standard). So if a judge doesn't like my 'type', I will learn not to go under them next time. However if I don't get placed, but I can see that mine are consistent in type with what they are placing I would go under them again.

But that's all moving away again from the origin of this thread - which isn't about types of dogs, but about regulations for qualifying for Crufts.

Wendy

 

[midlanderkeith]

if a load of show folk decided to put there show dogs in the racing champs I'm sure the racing folk would wonder why

[SIZE=21pt]Why![/SIZE] t

here are a few show breds that race at the champs, and a lot that have show breeding close up in their pedigrees.

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My slow show bred has run at the champs..................Fair play he came last, but it was worth the £7 entry to see the smile on his face and not leave him in the car all day

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Came in last, ive said somewhere in this topic that my doggy would still be in the traps when tuthers have crossed the finishing line neh mind eh, she'd still love it, my dog loves to work, so be it cos so do i, any activity is better than leaving your dog as you say in the car or whatever, at the moment, i quite like doggy dancin with her in and out my thighs like a trooper to gnarls barclays, CRAZY, piggin love my little doggy and all that goes with her i do

keith :cheers:

 

[*Lesley*]

If racing bred dogs and show bred dogs are competing against each other in a race, they are both aiming to cross the finish line first.
If racing bred dogs and show bred dogs a competing against each other in a ring, they are both aiming to conform to the judges interpretation of the breed standard.

They each take their chances  :thumbsup:

That isn't the debate here, the debate is whether or not dogs entered in the open Racing and Lure Coursing class at Crufts have to traditionally qualify for entry according to the qualification rules as laid out in the schedule, as well as qualify as per the Class Definition.

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Racing is based on ability(not chances) you cannot say that dog did not cross the line first because the other one was better looking :thumbsup:

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I think you'll find that's exactly what I was saying Lesley :thumbsup: One competition is about speed, and one competition is about conformation to a standard. Each dog has just as much right to do both.

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I don't disagree with that Joanna I said people should do whatever they want, its just the two are very different things dont you think

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I didn't say a word Les (i think TC is the one you are talking to ) (w00t) Absolutely agree with you though :huggles:

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Soz Joanna :huggles:

 

[Angela Bayley]

Sorry if I offend anyone but I can't help feeling that the response from the showing fraternity on this subject has been less than gracious.
Would you expect your show whippet to compete fairly in a race against racing whippets (after all what are whippets for?) so why should you be so afraid of competition from genuine racing whippets who will doubtless be penalised for being "over muscled" and "needing more weight"?

What have you got to be afraid of?

Angela

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Sorry!!! (must be my age) I distinctly (don't know how) gained the impression that 'show people' resented the fact that racing/coursing dogs could enter the r/c coursing class at Crufts and (would you believe it?) seriously challenge show dogs for a CC or even BOB ??? (Silly me)

I have this heretic feeling that there is a danger (if it has not already happened) of the whippet breed dividing into two separate racing/showing lines, as the greyhound breed has. Must be imagining things....

 

[beaker]

what chance do racing types have against dogs which is judged by a show judge :unsure:

I don't think that's inevitably true actually, there still some who will place whippets of a running type, and many around who have coursed with their dogs. There are still quite a number of folk around who cling to the ideal of a multipurpose whippet. :- "

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maybe this should be

"are just too damn bloody stubborn to give in and let go of the ideal of a multipurpose whippet" :thumbsup:

 

[~elizabeth~]

"are just too damn bloody stubborn to give in and let go of the ideal of a multipurpose whippet"  :thumbsup:

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I'll up that to 'too damn bloody stubborn, with an armour-plated thick skin to put up with the stick you get from absolutely everyone!' :lol:

 

[beaker]

i hope i'm ok saying this...

there is a judge at this years Northern counties whippet champ show, who both races and shows her whippets, maybe you should all put your money where your mouths are and give her an entry :thumbsup:

 

[beaker]

"are just too damn bloody stubborn to give in and let go of the ideal of a multipurpose whippet"  :thumbsup:

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I'll up that to 'too damn bloody stubborn, with an armour-plated thick skin to put up with the stick you get from absolutely everyone!' :lol:

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actually in my case i'm just too damn bloody thick to notice when someone is getting at me for giving everything a go :lol:

 

[Strike Whippets]

i hope i'm ok saying this...there is a judge at this years Northern counties whippet champ show, who both races and shows her whippets, maybe you should all put your money where your mouths are and give her an entry  :thumbsup:

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Like Elizabeth .....Stubborn as well ......My money is where my mouth is ......Whens the show ????? :thumbsup:

 

[Joanna]

I have this heretic feeling that there is a danger (if it has not already happened)  of the whippet breed dividing into two separate racing/showing lines, as the greyhound breed has. Must be imagining things....

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Well Angela, I have to say you say it how it is, but the great divide is there, and perhaps(as I have already said in this thread), we should go with that instead of fighting against it. I will be utterly lambasted for my words, but hey, I am developing broad shoulders, and the advent of 40 has given me a new confidence.

Bring it on!

 

[beaker]

i hope i'm ok saying this...there is a judge at this years Northern counties whippet champ show, who both races and shows her whippets, maybe you should all put your money where your mouths are and give her an entry  :thumbsup:

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Like Elizabeth .....Stubborn as well ......My money is where my mouth is ......Whens the show ????? :thumbsup:

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you will have to be quick mind

closing date is this saturday, can anyone scan in a schedule for people to print off?

 

[Strike Whippets]

Is that the one for the 1st April ?? ....If yes, I'm running a bend race meet

 

[beaker]

Is that the one for the 1st April ?? ....If yes, I'm running a bend race meet 

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15th april :thumbsup:

 

[Strike Whippets]

No thats the bend champs .........

 

[beaker]

No thats the bend champs    .........

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honestly you racers are sooo hard to organise, lol

 

[Strike Whippets]

LOL ....Its trying to weigh up ......Show Miya and Connie or race Eric and Jacob ......Decisions, decisions .....Well I know what I prefer

 

[beaker]

LOL ....Its trying to weigh up ......Show Miya and Connie or race Eric and Jacob ......Decisions, decisions    .....Well I know what I prefer 

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would it be standing in the rain in a muddy wet field? lol... your all mad