Seeding !!!

[Tony Taylor]

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There's a simple way of preventing owners unnessacerily seeding dogs. Disqualify any seeded dog that finishes out of posistion.ie, if a dog is seeded right hand runner on the straights and is in orange jacket but, say, the dog in the black jacket finishes on it's right hand side then disqualify the dog in orange.

True right ( or left) hand runners will always finish on their side. Owners of dogs that don't need seeding won't then seed their dogs unessacerily since they run the risk of being disqualified when a true wide runner finishes wide of it.

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so in that case when i ran my young no limit NIKKI WHIZZ @ maltby i seeded her left as that is the side she favours although she isnt severe but she does favour the left hand side anyway i got the red box nikki whizz stayed straight in line with the red box but on the ball in his 1st race on the straights went severely left so therefore ended up on nikki whizz,s left hand side on the ball wasnt seeded. so even though my dog had stayed straight in line with the red box she wud b disqualified coz a dog that wasnt seeded ended up on her left hand side? :blink:

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Nikki Whizz would have been disqualified in that case under the "rule" above. As you say Nikki Whizz ran straight and only "favours" that side and isn't a true wide runner.

That's the element of risk anyone who seeds a dog would take but if you have had a true wide runner you know nothing will finish wide of them.

Nothing ever finished to the right of Red Ranger. Anyone entering a race with him in it would not seed their dog unless it was a true wide runner as well as they would almost certainly be disqualified. A true wide runner has no choice but be seeded and will run the risk of disqualification.

 

[GRAHAM PEM]

Just wondered if greyhounds are 'seeded'.............I know they dont run on the straights but i wondered about the bends.
chris

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yes they are seeded infact there having the same debate on flappersdream at the oment

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Who seeds them then graham? Is it the trainers, owners or NGRC? Sounds like a debate that has no one answer as ever (w00t)

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THE RACING MANAGER

Rule 78 - Wide, Middle and Railer - definitions

A Greyhound classified as a seeded Wide Runner in a Graded Race or originally so classified in an Open Race under Rule 79(ii), indicated on the Racecard and published programme by a 'W' against its name or against the Trap Number it occupies, shall be a Greyhound which in the opinion of the Racing Manager is best suited to starting outside runners not so classified, across the course.

A Greyhound classified as a seeded Middle Runner in a Graded Race or originally so classified in an Open Race under Rule 79(ii), indicated on the Racecard and published programme by a 'M' against its name or against the Trap Number it occupies, shall be a Greyhound which in the opinion of the Racing Manager is best suited to starting on the inside of wide runners and outside of a Railer.

A Greyhound not defined in (i) or (ii) shall be classified as a Railer. A Railer is a Greyhound which in the opinion of the Racing Manager is best suited to starting on the inside of Middle and/or wide runners'.

return to the rule index

 

[DavidH]

seeding rail or wide i think is a good thing,helps for a safe race. if you dont seed these dogs must be middle ( white the death trap (w00t) )if dogs are seeded correctly it helps the organisers with the programme.think both nnwrf///bwra do a good job,and a thankless job, they do know what they doing just let them get on,at the end of the day it will take more than a trap draw to beat deneside belle he has matured into a fantastic bend dog doing open class greyhound times, as are many other scratch dogs some very fast bigguns about.

there you go andrew for the scratch, but he will not be given it its all on the day. :luck: :luck: :thumbsup:

 

[Karen-Coral]

Having read all the replies with great interest i am now more convinced that we need to spread the traps wider so all of the track is used if dogs are going to go left/right whatever----

then surely the ones that chase and course the actual lure which is supposed to run up the middle of the track will need more room ---

traps should be 9inches apart ??????where did this originate?

in a staggered start it does not happen --most crisscrossing /bumping happens when dogs are of levels or just a couple of yards between them--

maybe if the outside traps were actually nearer the tapes we would not encounter the need or desire to seed dogs that don't really warrant seeding---

if the seeded dogs run wide anyway the position of the lure would not be a problem

level breaks the lure is placed in front of the traps so likewise would not make a difference to wide runners either--

but this must be fair for all

why should anyone with a dog that does what it is supposed to do (that being the coursing of the lure) be at any disadvantage --

surely the ones that don't get it right if any should be the ones penalised

as for disqualifying anyone we would need half way judges//traps would need extra judge ///and possibly another one three quarter of the way up the track in order to operate it correctly ---i cant see that happening can any of you

going back to rag racing each dog had its own lane much like athletes do---

each would be at least a yard/36inches wide --

obviously the trap was in the middle of the lane which means the traps were 36 inch apart and it worked ---

no seeding in rag racing no muzzles unless your dog was inclined to fight --

seems we have gone wrong somewhere to me ---

perhaps its time we tried to work together and pool our results on what makes things better for the sport--

instead of just dismissing peoples suggestions without giving them an airing---

surely this would not go against the grain to much for anyone--

sorry if i am rambling on /would just like to see some harmony coupled with improvements in a sport i love --

steve

 

[weathergirls]

Just wondered if greyhounds are 'seeded'.............I know they dont run on the straights but i wondered about the bends.
chris

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yes they are seeded infact there having the same debate on flappersdream at the oment

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Who seeds them then graham? Is it the trainers, owners or NGRC? Sounds like a debate that has no one answer as ever (w00t)

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THE RACING MANAGER

Rule 78 - Wide, Middle and Railer - definitions

A Greyhound classified as a seeded Wide Runner in a Graded Race or originally so classified in an Open Race under Rule 79(ii), indicated on the Racecard and published programme by a 'W' against its name or against the Trap Number it occupies, shall be a Greyhound which in the opinion of the Racing Manager is best suited to starting outside runners not so classified, across the course.

A Greyhound classified as a seeded Middle Runner in a Graded Race or originally so classified in an Open Race under Rule 79(ii), indicated on the Racecard and published programme by a 'M' against its name or against the Trap Number it occupies, shall be a Greyhound which in the opinion of the Racing Manager is best suited to starting on the inside of wide runners and outside of a Railer.

A Greyhound not defined in (i) or (ii) shall be classified as a Railer. A Railer is a Greyhound which in the opinion of the Racing Manager is best suited to starting on the inside of Middle and/or wide runners'.

return to the rule index

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youve landed yourself an unenviable position now Graham your new role being NNWRF RACING MANAGER :wacko: you will have to watch all the bend DVD's in preparation for the next bend season in September sure you'll do a great job worth a try anyhow

seriously though this issue regarding seeding was raised at the BWRA A.G.M last year by Tony Cooper along with the suggestion of officials deciding on the seedings it was poo poo'd for want of a better word by most present but maybe its not such a bad idea and something both NNWRF and BWRA should come together on

 

[DavidH]

there will always be bumping as they all fly into the first bend. if you go to pelaw greyhounds it has a tight first bend always trouble unless you have a dog that can get out and clear . midnight run at hall green a few years ago watched him attack the first bend just a little gap on the rail but he went through nothing wrong with how he did it just muscled the others wide.wonderful to watch.always remember this stunning bend dog :thumbsup:

 

[wild whippies]

The greys racing and bumping was something I was discussing last night to my grey mate. I don't know how much of this is true but he recons Ireland is having a big overhaul of it's racing and they're looking into track designs to try and eliminate accidents. Another thing he mentioned was they're looking at a new 'sand' that's supposed to be good regardless of weather conditions.

 

[sherry]

There's a simple way of preventing owners unnessacerily seeding dogs. Disqualify any seeded dog that finishes out of posistion.ie, if a dog is seeded right hand runner on the straights and is in orange jacket but, say, the dog in the black jacket finishes on it's right hand side then disqualify the dog in orange.

True right ( or left) hand runners will always finish on their side. Owners of dogs that don't need seeding won't then seed their dogs unessacerily since they run the risk of being disqualified when a true wide runner finishes wide of it.

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so in that case when i ran my young no limit NIKKI WHIZZ @ maltby i seeded her left as that is the side she favours although she isnt severe but she does favour the left hand side anyway i got the red box nikki whizz stayed straight in line with the red box but on the ball in his 1st race on the straights went severely left so therefore ended up on nikki whizz,s left hand side on the ball wasnt seeded. so even though my dog had stayed straight in line with the red box she wud b disqualified coz a dog that wasnt seeded ended up on her left hand side? :blink:

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Nikki Whizz would have been disqualified in that case under the "rule" above. As you say Nikki Whizz ran straight and only "favours" that side and isn't a true wide runner.

That's the element of risk anyone who seeds a dog would take but if you have had a true wide runner you know nothing will finish wide of them.

Nothing ever finished to the right of Red Ranger. Anyone entering a race with him in it would not seed their dog unless it was a true wide runner as well as they would almost certainly be disqualified. A true wide runner has no choice but be seeded and will run the risk of disqualification.

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so my dogs done nothing wrong shes stayed on the left hand side and a dog that WASNT seeded ended up on her left but SHE will b disqualified? somehow i dont think thats fair. fair enuf if the other dog had seeded but it hadnt.

 

[JOHNG]

you just have to watch the greyhound racing on sky to see how the slightest of bumps can cost a dog the race, if you have level breaks and all 4/5 dogs go into the first bend together someone's dog will get a bump and be out of the race, it's the chance you take when bend racing. the best dog on the day will win or the luckiest

has far as a open draw being made that would be a waste of time you would be there all day ,the people doing the draw would not be able to concentrate due others moaning about what box they had drawn. :- "

the best way in my opinion would be to ask a volenteer from two different regions to attend the draw.

 

[sherry]

just to say nikki was slightly in front of the on the ball so she wudnt have known there was a dog on her left hand side if she had she very well might have went to try and get on the left hand side of that.

 

[sherry]

you just have to watch the greyhound racing on sky to see how the slightest of bumps can cost a dog the race, if you have level breaks and all 4/5 dogs go into the first bend together someone's dog will get a bump and be out of the race, it's the chance you take when bend racing. the best dog on the day will win or the luckiest
has far as a open draw being made that would be a waste of time you would be there all day ,the people doing the draw would not be able to concentrate due others moaning about what box they had drawn. :- "

the best way in my opinion would be to ask a volenteer from two different regions to attend the draw.

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totally agree with u john :thumbsup:

 

[weathergirls]

I think the open draw is deffinately the way to go credit where its due everyone was very patient on sat this being the first one I think everyone looked forward to it and enjoyed it there was an air of excitement and all accepted the result a few teething probs to iron out but practice makes perfect or as near as damn it and this is what the NNWRF is aiming for

if you get 2 or three same seeds drawn in a race then its luck of the draw owners are allowed where possible to exchange traps between themselves but keep colours

The NNWRF have allways done the draw in the same way but usually away from the crowd as its no easy task sorting a prog out i.e weights / yardage when those present are chatting away it can be a bit distracting but we aim to please and are quite happy to do it in public all we ask is for a bit of hush and yes we will make you progs out for you on your behalf we have now purchased our own laptop and generator (bargain prices as well) so at all events we hope to be able to get it straight on to the computer linked up to the printer

 

[weathergirls]

Dee is willing to bring the NNWRF lap top and help in getting the prog typed up (much quicker than by hand as any mistakes can easily be rectified ) if the BWRA are willing to do an open draw I know time is a big factor when getting a prog out especially at champs and using the computer really is a plus

THE OFFER IS THERE IF THEY WANT TO ACCEPT IT

 

[Fleesh]

Just another though, how many owners seed their dog left as "last time it ran from the orange box it went left" or seed right as "last time it ran from the red box it went right". This is probably most obvious is level break races, some owners to not stop to consider that their dog has run left/right out the trap to get to the lure in the centre, stopping when it reached the lure, however in the owers eyes as it didn't run straight down it "MUST" prefer a side. Another view, the dog came out the black box and ran straight down the right doesn't mean a dog is a right hand runner it just means that in it's position it was quite happy to chase the lure from there, in another race it could come out the blue box seeded right and not move, impeding a seeded right hand runner in another box or running across to the left infront of other dogs in an attempt to get into a suitable position to chase the lure.

Seeding to get away from the "death trap" as DavidH called it is a method that is completely out of order and in my view CHEATING (there I said it). Connor's Dream has had to return to puppy schooling due to this, she has been in several races where dogs her weight have been seeded right and lighter dogs seeded right to get away from the middle of the track. She has then come out the boxes and been bumped and barged by one or even two dogs as they run left across to the centre of the track leaving her on the right hand side of the lure running straight down from her own box. No wonder she is now terrified of running in close company with other dogs preffering to be at the back where she knows she cannot be hurt.

A dog that "favours" a side does not necessarily need to be seeded, with this opinion in mind - Connor's Legacy "prefers" the right hand side, she will get there if she can, however she will not attempt to get to the right if there are other dogs blocking her path, she will not muscle or barge them out of the way, therefore she is not a danger to herself of other dogs running in the race.

Should she be seeded ?

We have seeded her right if we could as if she was not seeded a dog running across from her right to the centre of the track could quite easily be disqualified for laying on as Connor's Legacy would refuse to move to the left.

 

[sherry]

the death trap box as its been put is the one i wanted with mickey whizz he loved the middle box. when 1st racing him we did make mistakes by seeding him left/right etc but u learn my your mistakes and @ an open @ blidworth i asked if i cud have middle box and he won his 1st open race :thumbsup: i guess wot im saying is mistakes can b made but not all the time. when training nikki whizz just with one other dog she wud always go to the left sometimes going behind the other dog to get that side.

 

[rodders]

Dee is willing to bring the NNWRF lap top and help in getting the prog typed up (much quicker than by hand as any mistakes can easily be rectified ) if the BWRA  are willing to do an open draw I know time is a big factor when getting a prog out especially at champs  and  using the computer really is a plus        THE OFFER IS THERE IF THEY WANT TO ACCEPT IT

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A generous offer Linda :thumbsup: ,one that will make things alot easier this weekend.I like you believe an open draw is the correct way forward,but nobody from the BWRA Commitee has commented on weather this will happen or not.As this as not been common practise in the past,then like others have suggested,perhaps the easier option is to have representatives from each region present when the draw is done for 'The Champs'.Then an open draw attempted at another smaller BWRA event.

As the BWRA Commitee are not replying to this question,would they take offence if chosen representatives asked to be present on the day,or would this request just be refused?On the assumption that entry to the draw would be gained,could we not on here ask people to put either themselves or someone else from there region forward as a representative.Then the names would all be sorted for Sunday. :thumbsup:

 

[wild whippies]

What a good suggestion :thumbsup: Nice to see the fed coming up with workable solutions too. :cheers:

Got to say discussions on K9 seems to be far more evolving than when we have meetings, probably because posters are able to highlight advantages, disadvantages and suggest solutions so clearly.

 

[weathergirls]

Dee is willing to bring the NNWRF lap top and help in getting the prog typed up (much quicker than by hand as any mistakes can easily be rectified ) if the BWRA  are willing to do an open draw I know time is a big factor when getting a prog out especially at champs  and  using the computer really is a plus        THE OFFER IS THERE IF THEY WANT TO ACCEPT IT

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A generous offer Linda :thumbsup: ,one that will make things alot easier this weekend.I like you believe an open draw is the correct way forward,but nobody from the BWRA Commitee has commented on weather this will happen or not.As this as not been common practise in the past,then like others have suggested,perhaps the easier option is to have representatives from each region present when the draw is done for 'The Champs'.Then an open draw attempted at another smaller BWRA event.

As the BWRA Commitee are not replying to this question,would they take offence if chosen representatives asked to be present on the day,or would this request just be refused?On the assumption that entry to the draw would be gained,could we not on here ask people to put either themselves or someone else from there region forward as a representative.Then the names would all be sorted for Sunday. :thumbsup:

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To be fair to the BWRA committee at this point the champs being such a major event they may not feel comfortable making any changes to the norm as everyone has their own ways of working and get into a routine so I wouldn't hold it against them if they don't adopt the changes at such short notice HOWEVER it is something constructive to put forward for the forthcoming proposal meeting at the end of the year this is where changes can be made, unlike the NNWRF as our committee are in contact almost on a daily basis either by phone or e-mail discussing members issues and ideas as they arise and if and when we can put them into practice

 

[Paws123]

Dee is willing to bring the NNWRF lap top and help in getting the prog typed up (much quicker than by hand as any mistakes can easily be rectified ) if the BWRA  are willing to do an open draw I know time is a big factor when getting a prog out especially at champs  and  using the computer really is a plus        THE OFFER IS THERE IF THEY WANT TO ACCEPT IT

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I don't mind helping anyone out with programs at any meeting , as Linda has said its easier and faster ... but was hoping to spend time with my dogs this Sunday as the past few opens they have been 2nd best again due to working

Be nice just to sit back and watch ..anyway i am off topic again :blink:

 

[weathergirls]

don't forget to put your clock forward on sat else you will be sat back watching -_-