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Stud Dogs

Discussion in 'Dog Showing' started by liza, Sep 24, 2010.

  1. dolly

    dolly THE VERY BLONDE Registered

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    One think that does amaze me is how some will travel to the other end of the country for a show, however when it comes to travelling for a stud dog ' its too far' !!

    IMO if you feel this dog is the best for your bitch, then you should make the effort to travel.
     
  2. liza

    liza New Member Registered

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    i will be going up to scotland to use a dog as the breeding ties in on the third generation
     
  3. JAX

    JAX New Member Registered

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    You are so right Helen. Its very rarely a stud dog I want is close , but it does help if the dog you want to use knows what to do ;) other wise you can have a long journey for nothing (w00t)
     
  4. Seraphina

    Seraphina Active Member Registered

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    All but couple of my litters were sired by dogs in other states - aproximately 1000km from here. I can tell you it is a nerve-wrecking experience. Some people may not be able to travel at a short notice, any time during the week - i am assuming most of your shows are on the weekend and can be planned weeks ahead. Bitch needs to be mated when she is ready, not when it suits us. And you need to use a dog owned by somebody who is either happy to accomodate your bitch for several days. Or if you drive your bitch yourself you need few days accomodation as well.

    My girls usually fly to the dog, they are progesterone tested to make sure they are not going too early or too late. That means traveling to vet about 30km from here every second day. Then when she starts coming close to ovulataion, quick run to the airport - 100km from here. Interstate mating costs me aproximately double of what it would be if I used local dog. It is not that I do not like any of the local boys, it is just that I seem to find one that I consider more suitable for my girl long way away. :)

    Maybe next year the perfect boy will live close....... would be nice.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2010
  5. liza

    liza New Member Registered

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    what do people feel about all this cross breeding and selling for top pricess i keep getting people asking what i think about the cross breeding i said i think its wrong as i know someone who has put a toy poodle to a caverlier you are putting both genetic faults together and producing an un sound breed if you look on the websites you see all kinds of crosses

    its taken us breders years to perfect our breeds and our lines
     
  6. DarrenG

    DarrenG New Member Registered

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    gods honest truth a my friends sister bought a jack russel cross shitzu yes they advertised them as jack shit puppies she paid £500, it had cherry eye and developod hip dysplasia amongst other things it ended up being pts so what did she do? Rang the breeders for another
     
  7. chelynnah

    chelynnah Whippet Servant Registered

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    :blink: (w00t)
     
  8. bertha

    bertha New Member Registered

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    Nothing surprises me any more. Why on earth do people spend hundreds of pounds on fancy mongrels? That's what they are, no thought behind what they are breeding.

    The vast majority of pedigree dogs are carefully bred with a great deal of thought put into the sire and dam. We all know there are those who breed for money with no thought behind what they do.

    It is up to the KC and responsible breeders to keep trying to educate people. Some up hill task that will be.

    :thumbsup:
     
  9. cairo

    cairo New Member Registered

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    A friend paid £1500 for a "puggle".....beagle cross/pug to you and I.

    Very sweet dog but she struggles terribly with her wait even though she is very well exercised.

    For that sort of money she could have got a pug and a beagle and still had change!!
     
  10. whippetfan

    whippetfan New Member Registered

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    This has been a huge issue in Australia for a number of years with a couple of high profile media personalities promoting these "designer breeds" due their "hybrid vigour".

    Many of these pups are produced in puppy factories, shipped to pet shops and sold to unsuspecting buyers with a bunch of misinformaton about the qualities the pups have. Fact is these F1 crosses are a health, temperament and conformation lottery and the public is slowly waking up.

    Groomers will tell you nightmares about coats harder to maintain than a poodles and owners who had no idea what they were taking on.

    I think its safe to say that here in Oz the tide may be slowly turning against the rubbish spruiked by the mass producers of these dogs. There have been media exposes of both the conditions the pups are bred in and the myriad of health issues pups have developed.

    As a poodle owner I'm pleased as punch that fewer of one of my chosen breeds will suffer to produce these pups. I'm dead grateful that Whippet crosses have not taken off in the same way here.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 7, 2010
  11. wilfred

    wilfred New Member Registered

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    I completely agree :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
     
  12. Seraphina

    Seraphina Active Member Registered

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    Of-course, it all depends on what you call "to travel", I consider anything within about 200km local = that means accessible in 1 day trip. When i talk of travel I mean some 1000km plus :)
     
  13. whippetfan

    whippetfan New Member Registered

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    Same here. Furthest I've been for a 1 day show is about 220km.

    I've driven 1300km in a day but that's for a few days stay.
     
  14. wild whippies

    wild whippies Super-D-Duper Registered

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    It doesn't strictly work like that. Most faults tend to be from the pairing of 2 recessive genes. By crossing with an entirely different breed there is less chance of pairing 2 recessive genes BUT it depends on the particular fault AND the particular cross.

    The other matter with regards to breeding within a closed stud book towards a particular breed standard is that if a particular trait is on the same chromosone as a defect you will have a greater chance or producing a health problem. One good example being spots on dalmations being associated with an inability to matabolise uric acid.

    The problem with crossing the likes of a toy poodle and a cavalier is that they both have similar defects e.g. both have mitral valve disease, patella luxation, retinal disease etc. Same applies with the Pug X Beagle (Vertebra problems, retinal problems etc) another mentioned, JackRussell X Shih Tzu (both breeds suffer from cherry eye and hip dysplasia) Linings such as these are no different to breeding within an exisiting breed with known recessive genes.There's another commonality with all the breeds mentioned, they've all got that cutesy popularity that puts them in the ''designer dog's category''

    There is a lot to be said of the likes of Beakers comments with regards to looking for a healthy veteran dog. By waiting and observing you have the beauty of seeing what progeny it's already thrown AND what defects have occured together with the fact you've waited long enough for the sire to show any adverse health problems later on in life. The same could be said for your own dam. Most brood bitches in whippet racing are over 5 years when they mate, they are not plagued with birthing problems but I suspect this is more down to the fact the bitches are very fit and have good muscle tone more than anything. One thing that did shock me a few years back on here was someone lining what I considered to be a very young show bitch in an attempt to make her ''fill out'', personally I think time alone would of seen to that and would hope this isn't the general consensus in show whippets?
     
  15. wild whippies

    wild whippies Super-D-Duper Registered

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    Reading through the rest of this I can see the old fit for purpose topic come up like it has in the working forum.

    I honestly don't know what people's gripe is with the whippet being so massively diverse, it is the one thing that is keeping disease from the door.

    Pedigree whippets don't have the opportunity like non-peds to iron all their problems out with a greyhound ( a dog that apparently has the most diverse of genetic material of all breeds)

    All KC registered pedigree whippets fall under a closed stud book. Start breeding dogs to all look the same and your on the way to some genetic defects, I can guarantee it. Pedigree whippets NEED to maintain their diversity. Let the show breeds choose their perception of the standard, let the racers breed for speed and fine bone, let the coursing and working dogs breed for bone substinance and stamina.

    I could point out that the pedigree whippet came from the non-ped, post a load of videos from Pathe as substantial proof that there was never a height/ weight standard and that musculature certainly was and is still overexagerated in the original whippet, I could point out that if all KC pedigree whippets were to be bred for purpose then their original ''purpose'' (which was sprint racing) This would mean they'd all be expected to run 150yds in a time similar to non-peds and this would of course mean no KC registered whippet could be seen as meeting it's purpose. But it would detract a good thread that is solely related to KC registered, pedigree SHOW whippets and THEIR choice of stud. :thumbsup:

    I have peds (show bred and racing bred) and non-ped racing whippets, I have respect and appreciation for all the varied types of whippets out there. They all have sound characters are wonderful pets and give their owners much pleasure in whatever they choose to do with them. It simply wouldn't enter my head to come into someone else's forum and start dictating what their whippets should be like!
     
  16. JAX

    JAX New Member Registered

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    Brilliant post , said all I wanted to say and more , and put so well too ;)

    Thanks
     
  17. bertha

    bertha New Member Registered

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    "One thing that did shock me a few years back on here was someone lining what I considered to be a very young show bitch in an attempt to make her ''fill out'', personally I think time alone would of seen to that and would hope this isn't the general consensus in show whippets?"

    Just picking up on this remark made by wild whippies. Having a litter can improve a bitch by springing her ribs out a bit. Nothing to do with making her "fill out" Very often a litter can and does mature a bitch.
     
  18. chelynnah

    chelynnah Whippet Servant Registered

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    Well said. Why does it always have to be about one-upmanship. Why isn't there room for everyone?
     
  19. liza

    liza New Member Registered

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    without mentioning names i know of a young dog who has now got four litters on the ground only weeks apart
     
  20. parnew

    parnew New Member Registered

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    I haven't posted for ages and I hope not to offend.

    Hmmm.... Great topic here everyone, with some very good points.

    They are bred to run and the closer to the standard they are the less problems they will have when they run, the word BALANCE should spring to mind and if your dog is truely balanced, then it should be

    good enough to do what ever the owner wishes.

    As for a stud dog I have watched this forum and others and read posts that say this line bred dog should go to this line bred bitch and this line is to inbred to go to that and you shouldn't line breed, and so many have bred and kept bitches

    and say " when I use that dog he will fix her front or rear ".

    I have changed my thinking of late as breeding to close in the pedigree creates to many problems. I'm lucky that I think that I have some nice bitches that are not totally to the standard in every way (perfect) but fit nicely in it.

    Both bitches are outcrossed but been mated to lines that work together. I have been very hard in the selection of dogs lately and try and choose dogs that too fit in that standard not thinking that he will fix my fronts or rears just a balanced dog that fits in the standard and is healthy. If you breed two very nice types together with pedigrees to match then the odds are in your favour.

    IMO a pedigree is based on performance not on how many times a great dog shows up in x amount of gens. If you have a pedigree with no champions or winners close up in it then you must be breeding the wrong way and you just might need to change you ideas or breed and learn ( good and bad ) for what others have done, this works in all whippets. This is how race horses are breed because inbreeding and close line breeding weaken the offspring type to type works with them.

    At the end of the day we all have an idea on what we want, as what we want is not always what our kennels refelect, but I think that most are always trying to improve and have the breed at heart.

    This type of forum is such a great tool for learning, may people be understanding of each other and respect all views so we as owners of this great breed continue to grow keeping the well being of whippets number one on our lists.

    Cheers :D ;)
     

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