Greyhound Blood in Non Ped WHIPPET Breeding

[mutley]

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no probs

 

[Vicky]

Sorry i have only just seen the rest of the thread re not replying

the nnwrf have no probs with scratch dogs whatever the breeding

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I don't mind keeping this matter until the NNWRF meeting but i would ask please don't imply all the committee have the same opinion if that is the case.

 

[mutley]

im gonna buy a little sprint greyhound and just lie about its breeding (w00t) thats what graham could of done :- " and before anyone says im not saying anyone does this but instead chose to breed what he wanted for himself and say exsactly what it was from :thumbsup: he could of quite easily said otherwise no one would of known :- " the fed didnt have a problem with it vicky i thought at least until of late anyway enough said i think

 

[mutley]

gob shite

 

[RealMadYid]

ps i dont even have a scratch dog so it has no affect on me :- " leave the no limit alone :rant: they make up a lot of numbers in a sport that cant afford to turn any away and before anyone has a go its my opinion

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Precisely Gary!

It is an opinion! Thank you, I wished I'd seen this month ago, it is an opinion! Good luck to you, an OPINION!!

can I have ONE!

Kind Regards,

Paul

 

[mutley]

YES

 

[rob67]

Whats sugar daddys breeding geoff

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Been waiting for this question too.

Sugar Fire x my greyhound :thumbsup:

And Sugar Fire came out of Xspell x Dark Peak, Xspell came out of Dream Vision x Final Spell

Dark Peak came out of Steinman x greyhound, Steinman came out of Bonnie Tinker x Double Take and so on, alot of high bred whippet in this breeding BWRA MEMBER not one offspring from this breeding that came direct from a greyhound was put back to a greyhound not yet anyway :lol:

Geoff Fletcher notice not milly :lol:

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:cheers: for this example geoff I didnt think I really understand (if your'e a newcomer like me ) the simple way in which breeding non ped whippet lines can be traced back and confirmed by the breeder in order to help get the 'whippet' back into 'non ped whippet'. I understand honesty is necessary on both breeders parts, and that for people like yourself and the majority of whippet racing people honesty is always there.

I know there was difficulties with a suggestion that there should be a 5 year lineage wanted for all non peds, but an agreement by the 2 breeders shouldn't be a difficulty should it? maybe there are other ways of reducing anxiety and anger about scratch breeding rather than banning big dogs? Is it possible to have a register of litters? It's not very often that a litter of possible racing pups are born without more than a few people knowing about them.

Sorry if i have repeated previous posts.

chris

 

[tony warren]

ive had big dogs and small dogs non ped means what it says if you have a breeding program that you want to do then its your right to do so, and you can breed down or up its up to you and i think we need some greyhound blood in i lines as new lines have to be started somewhere, plus clubs need there entry money to help them survive.

 

[RealMadYid]

YES

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Thank you! That is all I have ever asked...thank you for that, and actually listening to DISCUSSION perhaps big dogs should be welcomed, maybe the sport does need the revenue? DISCUSSION, DEBATE, ain't that what this is all about?

Kind Regards,

Paul

 

[Tony Taylor]

Talking about percentages or fractions ( of ghd in this case) is meaningless past the first cross whippet to ghd other than to indicate a particular dogs ancestory. It does not give any indication as to the amount of ghd or whippet derived genes, genetic material or  "blood" a particular offspring has. There is independant assortment of chromatids during meiosis which means that the amount of genetic material passed on is random. A "3/4 ghd 1/4 whippet" may have anywhere between 50% and zero whippet genes. Discussions of what fraction ghd should be allowed is therefore pointless.
Furthermore whippets and ghds share over 99.9% commonality geneticaly. The difference between a whippet and a ghd is likely the result of a very small number of genes. Obviously this means that the whippet can very quickly be bred out of the cross. ( since once chromatids are not selected in meiosis for the gamete, ie sperm or egg then those genes are lost forever)

The racing ghds and whippets do very similar jobs, the differences being that whippets run shorter distances, a sprint, and the majority of whippets are matched or handicapped on weight. If you remove the weight stipulation and race over the same distance convergant evolution of the breeds by selective breeding will produce types of whippet and ghd that appear identical. If you shortcut the selective breeding by using both breeds in a breeding program you will rapidly breed out those genes that are inferior. Ghds are better than whippets over the longer bends races. Any breeding program for bend racing in the no limit will breed out the whippet to produce genetic ghds and this can happen in as little a 3 generations.

Prior to 1926 whippets were the racing dog; Ghds coursed hares. There wasn't a size distinction between ghd and whippets in that the scratch whippets were like todays scratch racers, often in excess of 40lb while many of the great coursing ghds weighed under 50lb. Belle Vue ghd stadium opened in 1926 which allowed races to be run over a longer distance than the typical 200yd whippet race. The coursing ghd with it's superior stamina was superior in these longer races and ghd became the dog to race at these bend stadiums. The racing ghd of today is totaly different because of being selctively bred for racing than the old coursing types becoming a racing dog.

For me the terms whippet and ghd are less important than defining what the dogs are bred  for.,that is raceing. If you want to race dogs over 300yds or whatever it shouldn't matter about the breeding - let the fastest dogs win.

Lurchers aren't race dogs and so racing them against each other proves nothing about the abilities of the dogs as lurchers. There will always be those who want to race purpose bred racing dogs against lurchers bred for their purpose. Anyone who thinks that victories in lurcher racing using purpose bred race dogs, whether they be ghds or non peds, has any merit is a fool in my eyes.

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Does this person believe that the top non-peds are faster than the elite sprint greyhounds over short distance races ie 150 yards

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No

No such sentiment was given or implied in that post or any of my others for that matter. There is no logical reason for believing I'd think an elite sprint ghd wouldn't be faster than a non ped whippet..

As far as the breeding of scratch dogs is concerned I can see no reason why a breeder shouldn't use whatever is available to produce the fastest sprint dog possible. If others don't agree with the breeding program they don't need to buy the pups. If you lose to a supersaturated with ghd whippet/ghd there's no point in moaning because you've lost to a better dog. If you consistantly beat a supersaturated with ghd whippet/ghd then you'll prove such breeding programs as being flawed.

My own view is that whippet= race dog. Ghds were originaly coursing dogs not sprint racer dogs. Sprint ghd is oxymoronic since a sprint coursing dog would be useless. A sprint ghd and a No Limit whippet are the same thing - non KC registered no weight limit race dogs. The discipline is the same for both so neither or any mixture should be excluded if you want to the best dog possible for that discipline.

Anyone thinking of closing the books to dogs not bred they way they want would perhaps be better off buying some peds and joining the KC.

 

[mutley]

well saide tony :thumbsup:

 

[Tony Taylor]

Thanks for your reply Mick, but could post a step by step equation of how you came to this result?M D

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everytime you go back to a pure greyhoud you reduce the whippet blood by 50%, eg:-first cross is 50% - 25% - 12.5% - 6.25%. mick

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No you don't

 

[simpson]

Thanks for your reply Mick, but could post a step by step equation of how you came to this result?M D

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everytime you go back to a pure greyhoud you reduce the whippet blood by 50%, eg:-first cross is 50% - 25% - 12.5% - 6.25%. mick

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No you don't

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lol

 

[milly]

Bit immature answer for you  :blink:   lol

Anyone can debate things but would hope as a committee and its meeting are the place to discuss not the web as Linda says , if any changers are made Linda always update our members

I know one of our NNWRF committee members    doesn't think any dog over 35lb should be racing he says once over that weigh there greyhounds... so think your self lucky he does not preach on here

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IMMATURE :Not fully developed(I hope I am! :- " )

Lacking wisdom or stability because of youth(I wish) (59 yrs old)

In respect of you saying that a NNWRF committee member doesn't think any dog over 35lb should be racing,thats fine by me,just his opinion which he is entitled to.Why should being on a committee prevent me from saying what I think on here?What comes in my head,comes out my mouth.Always as and always will!

Geoff

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Just don't want the NNWRF brought into the capping or generation thing on k9 if its brought up at one of our meetings then alls well it will be discussed , the new class was added in hope to accompany every dog , would like to see how member of scr dogs find the extra class after it is given a go for 12 months

I am all for Freedom of speech if you don't know that by now you never will

As for you quiting thats initially up to yourself ... Ive heard lots of people on whippet racing Coms over the past few years say the same :- "

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Then some of the committee have double standards on reading some topics on here. I'm sure you don't want me to give you examples because we would be going off topic.

Geoff

 

[Paws123]

Bit immature answer for you  :blink:   lol

Anyone can debate things but would hope as a committee and its meeting are the place to discuss not the web as Linda says , if any changers are made Linda always update our members

I know one of our NNWRF committee members    doesn't think any dog over 35lb should be racing he says once over that weigh there greyhounds... so think your self lucky he does not preach on here

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IMMATURE :Not fully developed(I hope I am! :- " )

Lacking wisdom or stability because of youth(I wish) (59 yrs old)

In respect of you saying that a NNWRF committee member doesn't think any dog over 35lb should be racing,thats fine by me,just his opinion which he is entitled to.Why should being on a committee prevent me from saying what I think on here?What comes in my head,comes out my mouth.Always as and always will!

Geoff

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Just don't want the NNWRF brought into the capping or generation thing on k9 if its brought up at one of our meetings then alls well it will be discussed , the new class was added in hope to accompany every dog , would like to see how member of scr dogs find the extra class after it is given a go for 12 months

I am all for Freedom of speech if you don't know that by now you never will

As for you quiting thats initially up to yourself ... Ive heard lots of people on whippet racing Coms over the past few years say the same :- "

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Then some of the committee have double standards on reading some topics on here. I'm sure you don't want me to give you examples because we would be going off topic.

Geoff

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Theres a button at the top of the page on the right i think it says new topic.. :thumbsup:

 

[mutley]

you are usualy the first to side with the scratch dogs geoff im suprised at your views concidering the size of sugar daddy please dont take this the wrong way i am just confused and who has the double standards (w00t)

 

[milly]

you are usualy the first to side with the scratch dogs geoff im suprised at your views concidering the size of sugar daddy please dont take this the wrong way i am just confused and who has the double standards (w00t)

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When are you going to get it into your head Gary I have no problem with size :blink: When I bred this litter I was breeding to get myself a good scratch dog(I was lucky I ended up with 2 good ones)My original post was to give my opinion that I personally would draw the line how much Greyhound blood I would introduce into my breeding program.All you seem to keep going on about is size and weight!I have no problem whatsoever with the size and the weight of a dog when I'm scratch racing,I don't care if they're as big as a Skegness donkey (w00t)

You could put 2 small dogs together and get a scratch dog ie,Chunky,Avit.

Also another example,Vivs Quest x Greyhound produced Demonic Love,which also I have no problems with.Also Wor John x Florence which produced a variety of different sized dogs,one being Deneside Belle,which I have no problem with.I used Sugar Fire ,a 35lb dog,and got all scratch dogs,but I could have ended up with a yd/lber.In my new litter,theres a couple that could be yd/lbers and the rest will probably be scratch.Who knows I may get a 60lb'er,get my drift Gary?

If not do you want me to paint you a picture :lol: :sweating:

Geoff(Just my humble opinion)

 

[mutley]

i get ya drift fletch didnt know you could paint

 

[milly]

i get ya drift fletch didnt know you could paint

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only by numbers :lol:

 

[mutley]