Racing/lure coursing

[Angela Bayley]

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However the reason a race person could answer better is that they are RACE classes - so the show people who don't race don't enter, so have never bothered to look at the qualifications since it doesn't apply to them

But a lot of show people do enter with dogs that either dont race or have only a run or 2 in the previous 2-4 years.

Thanks for your reply Angela I found it very informative and very usefull, I think I have my Handler sorted out for Crufts (and all shows LOL) as Beaker owes me a little (well massive) favour.

I had thought about turning out in my racing gear for a bit of fun but I feel that wouldnt be showing the respect to the judge that I feel they would deserve in their ring so Beaker has kindly offord to handle her for us if she does get there.(the bitch not Beaker (although I may have refered to her as the later once or twice last night :- " )

I know we'd have no chance of winning or probably even getting placed but i'd like to see more race bred types entered so that all lines of whippets are represented in a class that as its name would suggest is for dogs that race/lure course, I know several show breds do race or lure course regularly and do very very well as you would expect a whippet to do but lets get those out of the ring that use it as an easy class who dont race/lure course (or have never live coursed).

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very much hope you (and other racers) will be there next year. It's more than time there were many more representatives from the racing circuit.

Against beaker I don't have a hope... :x

 

[~JO~]

I still think it is completely bizarre that theoretically the winner from the racing/coursing class could win the CC -which I think is completely wrong when they haven't qualified from a Champ dog show to enter the to dog show of the year.

Why should I bother trying to qualify my dogs when I can just run at a few BSFA meetings a year (which I do anyway) and get to Crufts via that route :blink:

I love the fact that all the dogs you see (or so I thought) have qualified at a Champ show, but if this rule is true basically anybody with a KC reg whippet can get to Crufts as it stands

If this is true the rules for the class definitely need tightening up at the very least.

 

[Strike Whippets]

Thats what some of us racers are saying ........Not meaning to sound rude but I have heard some show dogs ARE entered into this class just for the ease of qualifying ........and then us racing people are kicked out of this class because its full of show dogs (we ALL know a racer isn't ever going to beat a show bred at Crufts) its a poke in the eye to us whos dogs are open class racers or to the lure coursers who go every month and win classes etc ......If the qualifying was made harder so that the dedicated racers and lure coursers could get to Crufts, then hopefully this class wouldn't get peoples backs up as the dogs there would have worked hard to qualify just like the show dogs do :thumbsup:

 

[Happy Humber]

The definition in the shedule reads-

SPECIAL OPEN RACING OR LURE COURSING [greyhounds and Whippets only]

For Whippets which have won a race with a WCRA recognised club [passports must be produced on the day], or which have won a course with a club affiliated to the NWCC [the name of the club must be given on the entry form], or which have won a lure course run with the BSFA [dogs must be registerd with the Kennel Club], and for Greyhounds which must be registerd with the Kennel Club and also registerd with the NGRC ro the NCC.

As I said this is the only class you can show in unless you qualify in the normal way.

If passports etc were not checked on the day then the best thing to do is get in touch with the crufts commity and ask them to remind/instruct stewards to please make sure this is done in future.

Andrea

 

[Strike Whippets]

Miyas passport was never checked when she went to Crufts, and I did take it ......... Nor were the other dogs that are "ment" to be racers

 

[Joanna]

I still think it is completely bizarre that theoretically the winner from the racing/coursing class could win the CC -which I think is completely wrong when they haven't qualified from a Champ dog show to enter the to dog show of the year.
Why should I bother trying to qualify my dogs when I can just run at a few BSFA meetings a year (which I do anyway) and get to Crufts via that route  :blink:

I love the fact that all the dogs you see (or so I thought) have qualified at a Champ show, but if this rule is true basically anybody with a KC reg whippet can get to Crufts as it stands 

If this is true the rules for the class definitely need tightening up at the very least.

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I have to say I wholly agree with you Jo, it is like getting in via the back door.

As I said earlier, the only way for a level playing field is to make qualification the same for all whippets, or ensure the racing/coursing group winner is just that and that alone. Actually ,that would probably discourage the folk who entered a show-bred in that group for an "easy" qualifier. Perhaps that is the answer :thumbsup:

 

[TC]

The definition in the shedule reads- SPECIAL OPEN RACING OR LURE COURSING [greyhounds and Whippets only]

For Whippets which have won a race with a WCRA recognised club [passports must be produced on the day], or which have won a course with a club affiliated to the NWCC [the name of the club must be given on the entry form], or which have won a lure course run with the BSFA [dogs must be registerd with the Kennel Club], and for Greyhounds which must be registerd with the Kennel Club and also registerd with the NGRC ro the NCC.

As I said this is the only class you can show in unless you  qualify in the normal way.

If passports etc were not checked on the day then the best thing to do is get in touch with the crufts commity and ask them to remind/instruct stewards to please make sure this is done in future.

                                                      Andrea

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Hi Andrea,

I'm not disputing anything that you're saying, but it also states within the page on Class Definition;

GOOD CITIZEN DOG SCHEME For dogs which have achieved their Good Citizen Bronze Award Certificate or above

there is no official clarification that dogs must be qualified to enter this class, yet it is deemed so. This is what made the person I spoke to doubt himself.

I know that you are saying that the Special Open Racing or Lure Coursing class doesn't require normal qualification, but that is not actually written anywhere in any official document. I think that's why the KC are getting a definitive answer before they reply to my question. I understand that you have a letter stating this, but tbh no one else has, which seems to be a major flaw in the T&Cs of entry.

I think they've gone into hiding as I haven't received a call yet :wacko:

 

[Mark Roberts]

Now I think you Show members need to calm down, it's not an easy way or a back door way to getting a CC as if you bother to check I think you will find that CC's are not awarded for the racing & LC class.

it was put on as a fun class (so to speak "A show case") to allow genuine racing/LC whippets to compeat against other genuine R/LC whippets in their own class with NO CC's being on Offer.

So calm down were not trying to steal your glory

 

[quintessence]

If you look in the Crufts Schedule it has a section headed Qualifications for Entry of Dogs listing the qualifications necessary for entry. It then has another section headed Definition of Classes of which the Special Open Racing or Lure Coursing is one of the classes defined. I would have assumed then that there is only one way to qualify for Crufts i.e. the same for eveyone and your choice of class depends on which one your dog is able to be entered, ie you enter puppy if you qualify to do so and you enter Special Open racing if you qualify to do so, therefore there is no problem about dogs winning this class and challenging for the CC. We have dogs in the class who are entitled to be there by virtue of qualifying at a previous Championship Show and then satifying the criteria laid down in the class definition.

It makes sense to me why not to the Keneel Club.

Jenny

 

[quintessence]

If you look in the Crufts Schedule it has a section headed Qualifications for Entry of Dogs listing the qualifications necessary for entry.  It then has another section headed Definition of Classes of which the Special Open Racing or Lure Coursing is one of the classes defined.  I would have assumed then that there is only one way to qualify for Crufts  i.e. the same for eveyone and your choice of class depends on which one your dog is able to be entered, ie you enter puppy if you qualify to do so and you enter Special Open racing if you qualify to do so, therefore there is no problem about dogs winning this class and challenging for the CC.  We have dogs in the class who are entitled to be there by virtue of qualifying at a previous Championship Show and then satifying the criteria laid down in the class definition. 
It makes sense to me why not to the Keneel Club.

Jenny

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Edited to say of course I should have said "previous Championship Show or Premier Open Show"

 

[~JO~]

Now I think you Show members need to calm down, it's not an easy way or a back door way to getting a CC as if you bother to check I think you will find that CC's are not awarded for the racing & LC class.
it was put on as a fun class (so to speak "A show case") to allow genuine racing/LC whippets to compeat against other genuine R/LC whippets in their own class with NO CC's being on Offer.

So calm down were not trying to steal your glory

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Mark, I think you may need to check this.

The winner of each class (lure coursing & racing class included) providing they are unbeaten in any other class all go forward to challenge all the other unbeaten class winners for the CC. Therefore theoretically the winner of the lure cousing/racing class could be given the CC.

It is noting about stealing glory, but we all work very hard to qualify at other dogs shows to be able to go to the Crufts dog show.

 

[Mark Roberts]

I was of the understanding that as it was a "Special Class" the winner of the R/LC class if only with winner of that class and no other normal classes that day was excempt from that rule, just as the qualifying criteria are differant to thoses for the normal classes.

and thats why the winner would not be allowed to compeat against the other class winners unless it had won an early class as well.

if thats the case then NO in my opinion the winner of the R/Lc class should NOT be allowed to go for BOB unless it has already won an earlyer class that day.

edited to add,

Racers were told about the "special" racing/Lc class at a Whippet Racing Club Talk in a few years ago and i'm sure at that meeting Dennis Meager stated there was no CC on offer for the winner of that class? it was about 5 years ago so I may be wronge but i'm sure that was what he said as he was saying that he'd like to see more racers supporting the "special" class?.

 

[Joanna]

Hurray...............

Singing from the same song sheet :thumbsup:

Seems to me that there is an enormous amount of confusion about the entire subject, EVEN within the KC. It will be great if TC can get a definitive answer today. Shan't hold my breath though :- " (not that I haven't become a cynic in my old age or any-thing :lol:

 

[~JO~]

I was of the understanding that as it was a "Special Class" the winner of the R/LC class if only with winner of that class and no other normal classes that day was excempt from that rule, just as the qualifying criteria are differant to thoses for the normal classes.
and thats why the winner would not be allowed to compeat against the other class winners unless it had won an early class as well.

if thats the case then NO in my opinion the winner of the R/Lc class should NOT be allowed to go for BOB unless it has already won an earlyer class that day.

edited to add,

Racers were told about the "special" racing/Lc class at a Whippet Racing Club Talk in a few years ago and i'm sure at that meeting Dennis Meager stated there was no CC on offer for the winner of that class? it was about 5 years ago so I may be wronge but i'm sure that was what he said as he was saying that he'd like to see more racers supporting the "special" class?.

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I have definitely seen the winner of this class go in for Best Dog or Best Bitch - I am trying to think if the winner of the classes at Crufts this year were in the challenge..am not entirely sure as don't have my catalogue to hand to see if the winning dogs had already been beaten in previous classes and therefore were ineligible to go in.

But they always just call in 'all unbeaten dogs' never do they say except classes numbers..... :wacko:

So I am 95% sure these dogs are eligible for the CC which is why I think it is a bit wrong! If I had some glory to steal st Crufts Mark you would be very welcome :lol:

 

[beaker]

my understanding is that all dogs entered in all classes have had to qualify in the usual way and that to enter in the racing and coursing class or the good citizen they must have the extra qualifications needed to be eligable for that class. same as for a dog to be eligable for a puppy or junior class it must be of a certain age as well as qualify in the usual way

all unbeaten dogs are then eligable to compete for the 'challenge' and are in the eyes of the judge the best dog/representative from each class, the best junior dog, the best limit dog etc and the best racing/coursing dog

i also always thought that these classes were referred to as 'special' because they are only put on for certain breeds ie greys and whippy's, you'll not find a racing class for bulldogs (w00t) same as we couldn't enter the 'special' keepers classes.

i have entered the racing coursing class every time i have taken Oto and i feel he has had every right to be there, i am proud to enter him in that class because i feel strongly that he should be capable of doing what his breed is meant to do, he is in that class on principle NOT because i see it as an easy option.

 

[Strike Whippets]

You are right .....but we all know your boy races and lure courses ........What pees me off is that racing dogs are very much looked down upon, but when we have a class to prove we have great looking dogs with fab confirmation and movement (alright a different build to show dogs) we get beaten by dogs that have raced or lure coursed once or twice just to be eligible for this class ....... You wouldn't find show bred Greyhounds in their special racing and L/C class .......Dogs I think should have to earn their place in this class ........There are members on this board who L/C monthly with great success and racing dogs that don't have to have a huge club H/C to win a race ........as said earlier the show dogs at £20 a champ show have to really earn their qualifying for Crufts yet we don't for the specials class .........I personally would love it that my open class racers WON their way into that class the hard way ......Then I'd feel proud to be there and show that not ALL racing bred Whippets are cow hocked, spindly, gay tailed, big eared heaps of rubbish as portrayed ...... I think its about time we wrote to the kennel club and Whippet club to get the qualifier for the specials class altered as i'm sure no one from the BSFA or an open race or champs race manager would mind signing a slip to say that such and such has won a group or heat/final etc ...... Rant over and of course this is just my personal opinion !!!

 

[~JO~]

my understanding is that all dogs entered in all classes have had to qualify in the usual way and that to enter in the racing and coursing class or the good citizen they must have the extra qualifications needed to be eligable for that class. same as for a dog to be eligable for a puppy or junior class it must be of a certain age as well as qualify in the usual way
all unbeaten dogs are then eligable to compete for the 'challenge' and are in the eyes of the judge the best dog/representative from each class, the best junior dog, the best limit dog etc and the best racing/coursing dog

i also always thought that these classes were referred to as 'special' because they are only put on for certain breeds ie greys and whippy's, you'll not find a racing class for bulldogs  (w00t) same as we couldn't enter the 'special' keepers classes.

i have entered the racing coursing class every time i have taken Oto and i feel he has had every right to be there, i am proud to enter him in that class because i feel strongly that he should be capable of doing what his breed is meant to do, he is in that class on principle NOT because i see it as an easy option.

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Yes this is exactly the same as I my understanding of the rules... well before this topic started!!

You have every right to be proud to be in this class - but i do perhaps think the rules need to be tightened up a bit so those entered have to have raced and lure-coursed at least regularly.

I don't think it is an easy option, apart from if they didn't have to qualify at a Champ show first then I would say it was!!

 

[beaker]

You are right .....but we all know your boy races and lure courses ........What pees me off is that racing dogs are very much looked down upon, but when we have a class to prove we have great looking dogs with fab confirmation and movement (alright a different build to show dogs) we get beaten by dogs that have raced or lure coursed once or twice just to be eligible for this class ....... You wouldn't find show bred Greyhounds in their special racing and L/C class .......Dogs I think should have to earn their place in this class ........There are members on this board who L/C monthly with great success and racing dogs that don't have to have a huge club H/C to win a race ........as said earlier the show dogs at £20 a champ show have to really earn their qualifying for Crufts yet we don't for the specials class .........I personally would love it that my open class racers WON their way into that class the hard way ......Then I'd feel proud to be there and show that not ALL racing bred Whippets are cow hocked, spindly, gay tailed, big eared heaps of rubbish as portrayed ...... I think its about time we wrote to the kennel club and Whippet club to get the qualifier for the specials class altered as i'm sure no one from the BSFA or an open race or champs race manager would mind signing a slip to say that such and such has won a group or heat/final etc ...... Rant over and of course this is just my personal opinion !!! 

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agreed :thumbsup:

i'd also love it if a show dog had to at least show willing at racing before it could gain it's CH status, it would never happen though

now where did i put my tin hat, lol

 

[Strike Whippets]

The definition in the shedule reads- SPECIAL OPEN RACING OR LURE COURSING [greyhounds and Whippets only]

For Whippets which have won a race with a WCRA recognised club [passports must be produced on the day], or which have won a course with a club affiliated to the NWCC [the name of the club must be given on the entry form], or which have won a lure course run with the BSFA [dogs must be registerd with the Kennel Club], and for Greyhounds which must be registerd with the Kennel Club and also registerd with the NGRC ro the NCC.

As I said this is the only class you can show in unless you  qualify in the normal way.

If passports etc were not checked on the day then the best thing to do is get in touch with the crufts commity and ask them to remind/instruct stewards to please make sure this is done in future.

                                                      Andrea

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Yes completely right here, as written in the Crufts schedule and Whippet club one .........Just shows how easy it is for a dog to qualify for this class and then get to Crufts ..........Then the winner of this class IS eligible to challenge for the CC :blink: ......Well this is how I understood it any way ......

 

[~JO~]

The definition in the shedule reads- SPECIAL OPEN RACING OR LURE COURSING [greyhounds and Whippets only]

For Whippets which have won a race with a WCRA recognised club [passports must be produced on the day], or which have won a course with a club affiliated to the NWCC [the name of the club must be given on the entry form], or which have won a lure course run with the BSFA [dogs must be registerd with the Kennel Club], and for Greyhounds which must be registerd with the Kennel Club and also registerd with the NGRC ro the NCC.

As I said this is the only class you can show in unless you  qualify in the normal way.

If passports etc were not checked on the day then the best thing to do is get in touch with the crufts commity and ask them to remind/instruct stewards to please make sure this is done in future.

                                                      Andrea

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Yes completely right here, as written in the Crufts schedule and Whippet club one .........Just shows how easy it is for a dog to qualify for this class and then get to Crufts ..........Then the winner of this class IS eligible to challenge for the CC :blink:

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Yes but I am sure you still need to qualify in the normal way - this is just extra conditions for this class. On the bit I copied and pasted from the KC website that states the qualification for ALL classes at Crufts, these are just extra...

But hopefully the KC will ring Tracy back and we will get a definitive answer....maybe