British And American Whippets

[TC]

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Basically ALL racing bred whippets can be shown and ALL show bred whippets can be raced.  I

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Untrue in the UK. I have just reread your rules for WCRA and it states that Whippets over 32 pounds may not race.

I think there are probably any number of showbred Whippets whose healthy weight is in excess of 32 pounds--particularly the males.

My 21" US/Aust/UK line showbred dog's healthy weight in good muscle tone is 34.5 pounds, and that is with every rib showing. His 20 1/2" brother who also has good bone and substance for the show ring and races very well over here cannot be gotten under 33#.

Neither would look huge in the UK ring.

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A very good point. In racing there is also a top height 19" for bitches and 20" for males.

However there is an unaffliated peddie club and also non peddie clubs where KC reg whippets can race at. They run to their own rules which maybe different to WCRA ones.

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Beejay,

Has the height limit for racing changed? As far as I was aware it was 20" for bitches and 21" for dogs?

TCx

 

[dolly]

Im a definate NO, but would happily go with Cathie to tell Ronnie, just to see his face :- " :- "

AS for handlers TC, dont go there !!!

 

[seaspot_run]

[SIZE=14pt]It's a YES from me. I'm bored and I want to play another game  :lol: [/SIZE] 

 

Lets see what the US exhibitors spend their money on when advertising is no longer required....

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[SIZE=14pt][/SIZE]

We'll spend it on more and fancier show outfits with sequins and sparkles to wear with our big clunky trainers!!! Duurrr! :lol: :lol:

 

[BeeJay]

Basically ALL racing bred whippets can be shown and ALL show bred whippets can be raced.  I

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Untrue in the UK. I have just reread your rules for WCRA and it states that Whippets over 32 pounds may not race.

I think there are probably any number of showbred Whippets whose healthy weight is in excess of 32 pounds--particularly the males.

My 21" US/Aust/UK line showbred dog's healthy weight in good muscle tone is 34.5 pounds, and that is with every rib showing. His 20 1/2" brother who also has good bone and substance for the show ring and races very well over here cannot be gotten under 33#.

Neither would look huge in the UK ring.

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A very good point. In racing there is also a top height 19" for bitches and 20" for males.

However there is an unaffliated peddie club and also non peddie clubs where KC reg whippets can race at. They run to their own rules which maybe different to WCRA ones.

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Beejay,

Has the height limit for racing changed? As far as I was aware it was 20" for bitches and 21" for dogs?

TCx

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Just goes to prove that my mind is crumbling TC. :b Yes you are correct the heights are as you said. 20 for bitches and 21 for dogs. Just as well as all of my dogs are over 20 inches. (having to spell it 'cause my keyboard keeps putting @ instead of what it should be). (Keyboard is clearly crumbling too unless I'm now pressing the wrong buttons anything is possible these days :b .).

 

[TC]

Basically ALL racing bred whippets can be shown and ALL show bred whippets can be raced.  I

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​

Untrue in the UK. I have just reread your rules for WCRA and it states that Whippets over 32 pounds may not race.

I think there are probably any number of showbred Whippets whose healthy weight is in excess of 32 pounds--particularly the males.

My 21" US/Aust/UK line showbred dog's healthy weight in good muscle tone is 34.5 pounds, and that is with every rib showing. His 20 1/2" brother who also has good bone and substance for the show ring and races very well over here cannot be gotten under 33#.

Neither would look huge in the UK ring.

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A very good point. In racing there is also a top height 19" for bitches and 20" for males.

However there is an unaffliated peddie club and also non peddie clubs where KC reg whippets can race at. They run to their own rules which maybe different to WCRA ones.

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Beejay,

Has the height limit for racing changed? As far as I was aware it was 20" for bitches and 21" for dogs?

TCx

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Just goes to prove that my mind is crumbling TC. :b Yes you are correct the heights are as you said. 20 for bitches and 21 for dogs. Just as well as all of my dogs are over 20 inches. (having to spell it 'cause my keyboard keeps putting @ instead of what it should be). (Keyboard is clearly crumbling too unless I'm now pressing the wrong buttons anything is possible these days :b .).

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LOL No worries, I thought I was going mad :wacko:

You know what's wrong with your keyboard? It's in American setting....how ironic (w00t)

TCx

 

[patsy]

[SIZE=14pt]It's a YES from me. I'm bored and I want to play another game  :lol: [/SIZE] 

 

Lets see what the US exhibitors spend their money on when advertising is no longer required....

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[SIZE=14pt][/SIZE]

We'll spend it on more and fancier show outfits with sequins and sparkles to wear with our big clunky trainers!!! Duurrr! :lol: :lol:

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How fab to be a glitter girl, can't hack trainers though they are for walking the dogs, not nice with glitter

 

[Juley]

[SIZE=14pt]It's a YES from me. I'm bored and I want to play another game  :lol: [/SIZE] 

 

Lets see what the US exhibitors spend their money on when advertising is no longer required....

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[SIZE=14pt][/SIZE]

We'll spend it on more and fancier show outfits with sequins and sparkles to wear with our big clunky trainers!!! Duurrr! :lol: :lol:

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How fab to be a glitter girl, can't hack trainers though they are for walking the dogs, not nice with glitter

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I have a soft spot for fancy jackets!!! ( Not to mention far too many pairs of rather nice boots). :lol:

 

[~JO~]

Well it is defininately a NO from me too! I agree with Ronnie on this one.

As for handlers I think although some people are always very keen and as a first explanation as to why they didn't win is to say a judge is 'facey', I think in whippets in the UK a novice in the breed ('an unfacey-face :blink: ') can do very well in the breed. I hope JoK doesn't mind me using her as an example as someone who has only been showing whippets a couple of years, has done very well with her first whippet and also now her young bitch.

I really like the fact that most owners handle their own dogs.

 

[maggie217]

Just to play Devil's Advocate [because I've really no right to be saying anything :- " ] I'd say 'nay' to a champions class, but what about say, 3 RCC's counting as 1 CC.

 

After all the RCC is supposed to say that the dog is worthy of the CC/title if the CC winner were disqualified. This would then be fair to a dog that just happens to be born in the same era as a truly outstanding multiple CC winner.

 

Pauline [running to hide :b ]

 

[TC]

Well it is defininately a NO from me too!  I agree with Ronnie on this one.
As for handlers I think although some people are always very keen and as a first explanation as to why they didn't win is to say a judge is 'facey', I think in whippets in the UK a novice in the breed ('an unfacey-face  :blink: ') can do very well in the breed.   I hope JoK doesn't mind me using her as an example as someone who has only been showing whippets a couple of years, has done very well with her first whippet and also now her young bitch.

I really like the fact that most owners handle their own dogs.

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I agree about the UK Jo and should have been clearer that I was talking about the countries where 'handling' is big business i.e America

TCx

Ooops, just realised Dolly told me not to go there (w00t)

 

[patsy]

[SIZE=14pt]It's a YES from me. I'm bored and I want to play another game  :lol: [/SIZE] 

I've got it....... How about we swap systems for a couple of seasons. Let's see how we British  exhibitors cope bringing all the outfits in case of group inclusion. Oh and it will give us a chance to make up some our dogs which are lingering on a ticket or two!

Lets see what the US exhibitors spend their money on when advertising is no longer required, and let's stand by and watch if they get annoyed when one dog hogs all the tickets in a season. 

I will be fascinated to see who cliques up together here to make majors, and who breaks them! Over here we can start getting in pro handlers. Hey I'm off to book Joe Buchanan right now. Thank the Lord my current show dog has complete eyerim pigmentation. I feel a good year coming on!

 

To any American readers I hope you enjoy the huge entries, and we will be enjoying the famous US hospitality tents!    ...and the win photos, and racing our oversize males. What fun  8)

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Cathie I am thinking of turning pro, handler I mean, why not book me, will get some little ballet shoes, don't do trainers. By the way you voted yes so you won't have chance to be bored going to London to see Ronnie, he might buy you lunch though.

 

[T Hoare]

I like to handle/show my own dogs, there is no fun if someone does it for you.

Having said that I have, on occasions, handled for other people.

 

[jok]

Well it is defininately a NO from me too!  I agree with Ronnie on this one.
As for handlers I think although some people are always very keen and as a first explanation as to why they didn't win is to say a judge is 'facey', I think in whippets in the UK a novice in the breed ('an unfacey-face  :blink: ') can do very well in the breed.  I hope JoK doesn't mind me using her as an example as someone who has only been showing whippets a couple of years, has done very well with her first whippet and also now her young bitch.

I really like the fact that most owners handle their own dogs.

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Hi Jo,

No, i don't mind you using me as an example. I've been involved in showing dogs since about 1995 (and horses a fair way before that) but as you say, only recently Whippets. To be honest i do find it rathering annoying when some people claim it's only possible to do well if you're a 'face'. That isn't true. Yes, im sure it makes life easier, but if your dog is good enough, it will do well. I actively campaigned just two Whippets last year - 1 CC, 2RCC, 2 champ show Best Puppy's and at least 10 champ show 1st places came our way last summer - not bad for a nobody

 

[Seraphina]

I am sorry Seraphina I do not agree at all, I breed whippets for the show ring, I am not interested in racing

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I thought that dogs bred for show ring are bred according to The Breed Standard, which says;

General appearance and characteristics Balanced combination of muscular power and strength with elegance and grace of outline. Built for speed and work. All forms of exaggeration should be avoided.

Nobody is suggesting that the show dogs should have to win races. They should be able to run in reasonable time. If they are built such a way that they cannot, then we somehow lost the plot.

 

[Strike Whippets]

I didn't mean show dogs aren't exercised ....I mean the illnesses in lines that are still bred on from  :thumbsup:   ......

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[SIZE=14pt][/SIZE]

That is really interesting. We should all have the health of the breed at heart. Please could you expand on your point.

 

Which illnesses do you have in mind?

 

Do you think some breeders are deliberately using dogs or bitches that they KNOW to carry disease?

 

Please don't name anyone just respond generally.

 

 

Cathie

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When hearing from VERY well know Whippet showers, breeders etc .... I know (as long as I've been told the truth) that there are lines out there that are controlled by medication that are bred on from ......Of course there are sound lines out there .....and some great lines have closed due to health problems ......I was just trying to say that as little as the show people think of our racing breds ....the breeding stock have to be healthy to do what is asked of them ....just like the lure coursers etc ..... Off to find that darned tin hat :b

 

[seaspot_run]

I didn't mean show dogs aren't exercised ....I mean the illnesses in lines that are still bred on from  :thumbsup:   ......

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[SIZE=14pt][/SIZE]

That is really interesting. We should all have the health of the breed at heart. Please could you expand on your point.

 

Which illnesses do you have in mind?

 

Do you think some breeders are deliberately using dogs or bitches that they KNOW to carry disease?

 

Please don't name anyone just respond generally.

 

 

Cathie

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When hearing from VERY well know Whippet showers, breeders etc .... I know (as long as I've been told the truth) that there are lines out there that are controlled by medication that are bred on from ......Of course there are sound lines out there .....and some great lines have closed due to health problems ......I was just trying to say that as little as the show people think of our racing breds ....the breeding stock have to be healthy to do what is asked of them ....just like the lure coursers etc ..... Off to find that darned tin hat :b

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Fit for an athletic purpose and genetically-healthy are not synonymous.

Here in the USA, we have a lot of very oddball genetic health defects which have surfaced in our racing lines, none of which keep their parents and littermates, apparently, from winning meets and being at the top of the standings.

There are a lot of things that would render a showbred dog thought unfit for breeding from a health standpoint which would not keep a dog from racing well in its youth.

Show vs. race is a discussion which seldom has anywhere good to go over here, but the one thing I would say about the USA is that the top show lines and show kennels are more numerous than those who participate primarily in racing, and the top show sires sire many more litters each year than the top racing sires, therefore on a purely percentage and probability basis, if you assume that each type of stock has an equal probability of carrying genetic defects there will be more showbred litters which contain a puppy with a genetic defect than racebred litters that contain a puppy with a genetic defect.

But if you don't break it down by percentage affected vs. total percentage of all puppies bred from that category of lines, then it's just anecdotal, personal, and useless.

I'm in no position to judge the relative numbers of showbred whippets bred each year vs. those bred for racing, but I would imagine that relative entries and participation may provide some insight.

Here in the USA, there are many more breeders who breed for show than who breed for racing. And then there are the (what you call) "puppy farmers", but it's hard to incorporate their data since nobody really talks about it unless something unhealthy comes into rescue.

 

[gajo]

I am sorry Seraphina I do not agree at all, I breed whippets for the show ring, I am not interested in racing

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I thought that dogs bred for show ring are bred according to The Breed Standard, which says;

General appearance and characteristics Balanced combination of muscular power and strength with elegance and grace of outline. Built for speed and work. All forms of exaggeration should be avoided.

Nobody is suggesting that the show dogs should have to win races. They should be able to run in reasonable time. If they are built such a way that they cannot, then we somehow lost the plot.

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Don't forget what the whippet breed was originally created to do- and it wasn't for running the fastest next to other dogs in a straight line or around a circular track. This whole "speed" thing (I haven't seen a slow healthy whippet yet) is being misinterpretted I think. JMHO.

 

[seaspot_run]

I am sorry Seraphina I do not agree at all, I breed whippets for the show ring, I am not interested in racing

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I thought that dogs bred for show ring are bred according to The Breed Standard, which says;

General appearance and characteristics Balanced combination of muscular power and strength with elegance and grace of outline. Built for speed and work. All forms of exaggeration should be avoided.

Nobody is suggesting that the show dogs should have to win races. They should be able to run in reasonable time. If they are built such a way that they cannot, then we somehow lost the plot.

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Don't forget what the whippet breed was originally created to do- and it wasn't for running the fastest next to other dogs in a straight line or around a circular track. This whole "speed" thing (I haven't seen a slow healthy whippet yet) is being misinterpretted I think. JMHO.

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This is true.

I believe the original use was as a poacher's dog, small enough to carry under the cloak and throw over His Lordship's fence, and then slightly later, as a dog where wagers were placed how many rabbits could be slaughtered in a given amount of time in an enclosure (which is totally counter to our modern-day sensibilities on what constitutes ethical sport).

All our modern pursuits are pretty artificial, with the exception of open field coursing of live game.

 

[Seraphina]

Don't forget what the whippet breed was originally created to do- and it wasn't for running the fastest next to other dogs in a straight line or around a circular track. This whole "speed" thing (I haven't seen a slow healthy whippet yet) is being misinterpretted I think. JMHO.

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Yes, you are right, it is bit more complicated, but the standard mentions "build for speed", what ever that means. Many of the top winning Whippets are too heavy and too long to be able to run fast or to be nimble enough for lure coursing. IMHO the beauty and elegance in Whippet comes from his fitness and capability of amazing twist and turns.

If what we are breeding is the anatomically correct Whippet, then they should be beating the supposedly not so correct racing/coursing dogs hands down. Maybe we should just stop and reconsider what is the correct anatomy for a galloping hound.

 

[patsy]

Sorry Seraphina I can not agree, there is nowhere in the breed standard that says a whippet should be short. famous causing dogs of the past Susan Bairds Ch. Sound Barrier also held his coursing title, many of Mary Lowes including Chs Ruff, Wiverton and many more, these were no way short dogs,and Sound Barrier was a top coursing sire, in fact all these dogs produced top winners in both fields.

In my book Gay Robertson very kindly did the racing and coursing chapters as this is not my field at all. There is a picture of WCR Ch Striker again in no way a short dog he was very light boned 20inches but he only weighed in at 23lbs so a dog of that size and weight could not possibly win in the show ring.

Now going back to America Mary Lowe exported out of her first litter before Mary had a prefix a dog by Robmaywin Stargazer of Allways x Willow of Allwaysa solid red. Registered Red Gleam of Test In the early days she also exported Nimrodel Pied Piper a golden fawn with heavy white trim sired by the lovely Ch Danegeld Pipers Tune X Garden Party of Allways litter sister to Ch Playmate, these went to the West coast to Alec McKenzies sister and Mary said they were both my up, but they were also wanted for their working ability. She also told me that Annette Skelley sent to the stated Ringmore Finisterre, don't know if he was by the lovely Ch. Bardolf, perhaps Vanna could shed some light.