British And American Whippets

[Ms Molly]

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I agree with you. There are certain terms in both standards which describe the breed to a t.

And yes, bring out the wicket I say. But you know --I have been at National Specialties in the USA where judges have wicketed dogs I felt looked to be within the standard. Then let other dogs go unmeasured, who looked from ringside to be taller. So yes, lets measure the entire entry, like you say the racing and coursing meetings do.

 

[patsy]

I do know there are many savvy breeders in the USA, like yourself Karen, who are open minded about the eye and coat colour issue.It is a pity that many of the fancy in the US of A  refuse to compromise in this area. When I mentioned the possibility of a universal standard previously, I received a rather nasty email from a breeder stating; Leave OUR standard alone!!!

So what hope do you have!!!

I like the FCI standard which states; Colour any colour or mixture of colours.

Eyes Oval, bright, expression very alert

Now,  I am putting on my flame suit here. The Whippet breed, is it not, an English breed? So why can't the FCI standard for our breed, be universal?

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Hiya Molly, in the standard as we know it says any colour or mixture of colours, in dilutes you have the eye colour to match. If the measure was brought in it would have to be for every dog . When I judged Staffordshire Bull Terriers at Stockholm international (the most fabulous show to judge) they wanted every dog measured and their heights recorded, my stewards were a great help because I only understand inches, but I did find that it broke my concentration, I was a bit cross at the start of judging because it was just thrown at me. I did suggest the measure to be set at the correct height and only record the ones that would not go under, but they would not have it, and it did take time, and I had a record entry of 82, so with the measuring and the critiques I was fit to be tied.

Now to the history of the breed I put my thoughts on the Eng/Am thread. What are your thoughts?. DON'T RUN FAR THOUGH

 

[UKUSA]

Karen, Im afraid that I have to disagree with you on the difference between larger and smaller dogs on the move , I dont think that the size of the dog has any bearing on whether a larger dog outmoves or is more impressive than his smaller brother. In fact I have shown a dog who for many people was too small but who could knock his larger competition into a cocked hat on the move, his 4R.C.Cs prove that. It was never his movement that held him back from the larger cards.

Nicky

 

[patsy]

Karen, Im afraid that I have to disagree with you on the difference between larger and smaller dogs on the move , I dont think that the size of the dog has any bearing on whether a larger dog outmoves or is more impressive than his smaller brother. In fact I have shown a dog who for many people was too small but who could knock his larger competition into a cocked hat on the move, his 4R.C.Cs prove that. It was never his movement that held him back from the larger cards.Nicky

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I am with you on this Nicky, my Everlastin Love was a small bitch and a better mover you would not find. I think with a lot of the American dogs it is down to the speed they are taken, the longer the legs the faster you would have to go to get some sort of stride. I look for a long easy stride covering the ground whatever their size if they are built right they are capable of doing.

 

[UKUSA]

I also think that there can be a tendency to take some dogs off at such a lick, because the handler thinks that flying around the ring is impressive, when in actual fact all that kind of movement does is unbalance a dog that is nt made to move at that speed!

Nicky

 

[Ms Molly]

Yep, agree with you ladies. I too have had smaller dogs/bitches, who outmoved their taller competition.

The properly built, and sized whippet, will move around on a loose lead, holding topline shape, and covering ground without skipping, and hitching, taking less strides to get there.

It is not a race, just free and easy.

Patsy, send me the pages of your postings.

Molly

 

[patsy]

Yep, agree with you ladies. I too have had smaller dogs/bitches, who outmoved their taller competition.
The properly built, and sized whippet, will move around on a loose lead, holding topline shape, and covering ground without skipping, and hitching, taking less strides to get there.

It is not a race, just free and easy.

Patsy, send me the pages of your postings.

Molly

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Molly there is more chance of a fish not swimming than me being able to send pages

 

[seaspot_run]

I didn't say that a smaller one couldn't move as well or better than a larger one, only that to a lot of judges, the bigger one appears to have more impressive and powerful-seeming movement.

That's just my take on why size tends to creep up in the absence of a strict height upper limit in not just Whippets, but most breeds. Bigger ones win more and are rewarded, not because they have better outlines and heads (they don't) but because their gait catches the judges' eyes a little more. At least over here, where we have many more all-arounders doing our shows.

That is not to say that judges judges the breed correctly when they reward the bigger specimens over those of correct size, but it is something that many have observed, not just me.

Our size in the US has moderated. The huge males pushing the top of the standard were much more common a couple of decades ago than they are now.

 

[patsy]

I didn't say that a smaller one couldn't move as well or better than a larger one, only that to a lot of judges, the bigger one appears to have more impressive and powerful-seeming movement. 
That's just my take on why size tends to creep up in the absence of a strict height upper limit in not just Whippets, but most breeds. Bigger ones win more and are rewarded, not because they have better outlines and heads (they don't) but because their gait catches the judges' eyes a little more. At least over here, where we have many more all-arounders doing our shows.

That is not to say that judges judges the breed correctly when they reward the bigger specimens over those of correct size, but it is something that many have observed, not just me.

Our size in the US has moderated.  The huge males pushing the top of the standard were much more common a couple of decades ago than they are now.

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When judging on the East coast Karen I did not find the dogs or bitches much different in size to judging in England. It would be great if we would all get together on the size issue. My ideal would be for dogs to be under 21ins and bitches to be under 20ins, some people I know will scream at 20 ins for a bitch,but our Esmee is 19ins and is considered by some people as being a small bitch.

 

[UKUSA]

Having shown in the U.S(though it was many moons ago and it strikes me that this maybe should be on the U.K/U.S.A thread) it seems to me that all rounders have far too much power if they are driving the breed in a certain direction through their ignorance. I am not saying for one minute that we do not have those same kind of all rounders over here but they do not have the influence at breed level that they do in the U.S. Over here we vote with our feet but I realize that it is not as easy as that for the U.S exhibitor where your allrounders out number the breed specialist.

Nicky

 

[bertha]

A big dog or bitch will nearly always beat a correct sized one. It was so when I first started in 1973 and is the same now. We have allowed this to happen by not adhering to the breed standard on size.

Bring in a measure. Poodles are measured so why not whippets?

.

Speed on the move, sorry, all this racing around the ring is not needed. Whippets should be able to move at a brisk trot, the handler racing round the ring makes assessing movement nearly impossible.

That is my take on it

 

[patsy]

A big dog or bitch will nearly always beat a correct sized one. It was so when I first started in 1973 and is the same now. We have allowed this to happen by not adhering to the breed standard on size.
Bring in a measure. Poodles are measured so why not whippets?

.

Speed on the move, sorry, all this racing around the ring is not needed. Whippets should be able to move at a brisk trot,  the handler racing round the ring makes assessing movement nearly impossible.

That is my take on it

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Bertha what iis correct size, 171/2ins and 181/2 ins in these days is not realistic.

 

[patsy]

Have we not digressed somewhat? This thread was about Critiques.

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Tracy you are right, as Nicky said it should be on the US/UK topic, will try to find it again.

 

[T Hoare]

I have brought this thread to the front again as a discussion on size may be better on this thread rather than a more recent one :thumbsup:

 

[patsy]

Just moved this up as we have been talking about eye colour size etc in the two different countries, it should not be on the critique thread, Tracy is right. If anyone has any comments it can be continued here.

 

[T Hoare]

Just moved this up as we have been talking about eye colour size etc in the two different countries, it should not be on the critique thread, Tracy is right. If anyone has any comments it can be continued here.

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Snap Patsy :thumbsup:

 

[affieluver]

Bertha what iis correct size, 171/2ins and 181/2 ins in these days is not realistic

hi patsy from a complete showing novice why is this height totally unrealistc today as my bitch is only just 18.5 inches sorry to sound thick :thumbsup:

 

[T Hoare]

Unlike poodles & Spitz Kleins, Whippets are not measured in the show ring.

Certain Whippet colouring can be deceptive to the eye giving the apperence of being larger/smaller.

 

[~JO~]

My bitch is 18.5" and yes is one of the smallest in the ring, but there are quite a few her size - none smaller admittedly. I just wish that instead of stating that she is 'small' they would realise the others are 'big'

 

[posh totty]

My bitch is 18.5" and yes is one of the smallest in the ring, but there are quite a few her size - none smaller admittedly.  I just wish that instead of stating that she is 'small' they would realise the others are 'big'

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here here jo!!!!! :thumbsup: